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Croydon bar owner 'banned from playing music'
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 matt_himself  Matataland 13 Mar 16 2.54pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I think a song that encourages the shooting and burning of gay people should be banned in 2016 England... If people want to justify it by comparing it to a Elton John song, I think they either don't understand what they're talking about... or maybe.... I am talking about censorship and the politics of censorship.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 2.54pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Please could you explain what you mean and I will answer your question. You haven't answered the questions posed because I suspect you have no answers. The fact is that censorship is more damaging than allowing freedom of expression. Would you want to live in a censored society? We should ban music that encourages murder of people due to their sexuality.
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 2.56pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I am talking about censorship and the politics of censorship. And I'm talking about hate speech regardless if it's dressed up as "music".
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 2.59pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Your missing the point. Where does censorship end? I don't think anyone on here is encouraging musicians to promote the killing of anyone through their lyrics. However, censorship is wrong. Where does it start and stop? You're missing the point of this thread... the thread is discussing people singing about killing gay people. There is no freedom of speech... because society is littered with bellends that think saying gays should be shot and burned is ok, and when the authorities say don't say s*** like that, they then scream censorship
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 3.06pm |
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Change "gay" for "black" and tell me their lyrics are freedom of speech or hate filled spite that shouldn't be tolerated?
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 13 Mar 16 3.12pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
We should ban music that encourages murder of people due to their sexuality. We should certainly ban any post 1978 Elton John
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Mar 16 3.14pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
You're missing the point of this thread... the thread is discussing people singing about killing gay people. There is no freedom of speech... because society is littered with bellends that think saying gays should be shot and burned is ok, and when the authorities say don't say s*** like that, they then scream censorship No I am not. This is about censorship. You are advocating banning certain types of music. I will ask you again the question you have failed to answer but in a different way. As you are advocating censorship, who decides what should be banned and what should be played? What are the boundaries of your censorship, for example, if someone is offended because of religious reasons for the overt use of homosexual imagery in a Frankie Goes to Hollywood video, should that be banned as well, so as not offended religious sensibilities? What about people who are staunch anti communists. They might want The Beatles 'Revolution' banned. Then what? As you have started along a road of censorship, where does it go to? Ban the 'Fast Food Rockers' because it encourages obesity? censorship is never a good idea. States and regimes who encourage and support censorship fail. History proves that.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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coulsdoneagle  London 13 Mar 16 3.17pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Please could you explain what you mean and I will answer your question. You haven't answered the questions posed because I suspect you have no answers. The fact is that censorship is more damaging than allowing freedom of expression. Would you want to live in a censored society? It isn't freedom of expression it's hate speech. It's not the same and hate speech should be censored and not played in public venues. Obviously we can't prosecute the artists for hate speech as they are based in the Caribbean, but we can't stop public venues from playing their music. Edited by coulsdoneagle (13 Mar 2016 3.20pm)
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Mar 16 3.19pm |
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Originally posted by coulsdoneagle
It isn't freedom of expression it's hate speech. It's not the same and hate speech should be censored and not played in public venues. Read my last post.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 3.20pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
No I am not. This is about censorship. You are advocating banning certain types of music. I will ask you again the question you have failed to answer but in a different way. As you are advocating censorship, who decides what should be banned and what should be played? What are the boundaries of your censorship, for example, if someone is offended because of religious reasons for the overt use of homosexual imagery in a Frankie Goes to Hollywood video, should that be banned as well, so as not offended religious sensibilities? What about people who are staunch anti communists. They might want The Beatles 'Revolution' banned. Then what? As you have started along a road of censorship, where does it go to? Ban the 'Fast Food Rockers' because it encourages obesity? censorship is never a good idea. States and regimes who encourage and support censorship fail. History proves that. I think we should ban songs that incite murder.. I think the elected government should deal with this. I don't think we should ban any of the examples you have given (because they don't incite murder) I am not a huge fan of your counter argument... the whole what-aboutery always makes me think the person i'm talking to is a bit thick
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| coulsdoneagle London 13 Mar 16 3.24pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Read my last post. It's not about what offends people. This music often completely obviously incites violence against minorities. That's illegal and should be banned. Any song which incited violence in that manner is hate speech and should be banned, it's really not a difficult concept to grasp.
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 3.26pm |
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Originally posted by coulsdoneagle
It's not about what offends people. This music often completely obviously incites violence against minorities. That's illegal and should be banned. Any song which incited violence in that manner is hate speech and should be banned, it's really not a difficult concept to grasp. Yep.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Mar 16 3.38pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I think we should ban songs that incite murder.. I think the elected government should deal with this. I don't think we should ban any of the examples you have given (because they don't incite murder) I am not a huge fan of your counter argument... the whole what-aboutery always makes me think the person i'm talking to is a bit thick I am highlighting the dangers of censorship. The fact is that history has proven that once you start censoring the press and entertainment, all sorts of groups with vested interests start using the mechanism of censorship for their own ends. I find your argument disingenuous (people with little to say often me out that those with opposing want death, poverty or support violence as an emotive device to try and take the moral high ground) and your insult a sign that you don't wish to scratch the surface in this subject.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Mar 16 3.38pm |
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Originally posted by coulsdoneagle
It's not about what offends people. This music often completely obviously incites violence against minorities. That's illegal and should be banned. Any song which incited violence in that manner is hate speech and should be banned, it's really not a difficult concept to grasp. And it's not difficult to grasp that once you open the door to censorship, you are allowing censorship to be used in all sorts of unsavoury ways.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 3.43pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I am highlighting the dangers of censorship. The fact is that history has proven that once you start censoring the press and entertainment, all sorts of groups with vested interests start using the mechanism of censorship for their own ends. I find your argument disingenuous (people with little to say often me out that those with opposing want death, poverty or support violence as an emotive device to try and take the moral high ground) and your insult a sign that you don't wish to scratch the surface in this subject. You're not highlighting anything.... you've got a weak argument and you know it. I have answered your questions, you have yet to answer mine. Do you think a song about shooting and burning a gay man should be allowed? My cousin was beaten unconscious for being gay in Tooting 2011. He lost his job as a tube driver because he suffered loss of hearing in his left ear and then failed his periodical company medical. I'm not trying to take the moral high ground over anything, I'm just against bigotry in all it's forms.
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Mar 16 3.57pm |
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Originally posted by 7mins
You're not highlighting anything.... you've got a weak argument and you know it. I have answered your questions, you have yet to answer mine. Do you think a song about shooting and burning a gay man should be allowed? My cousin was beaten unconscious for being gay in Tooting 2011. He lost his job as a tube driver because he suffered loss of hearing in his left ear and then failed his periodical company medical. I'm not trying to take the moral high ground over anything, I'm just against bigotry in all it's forms. You haven't answered questions, you have just banged the same drum since the start that you support censorship and fail to understand the consequences of censorship. I am not advocating murder or burning anyone. I think there are other ways to deal with this than censorship. You are trying to take the moral high ground. Your above story is an example of this.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 4.02pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
You haven't answered questions, you have just banged the same drum since the start that you support censorship and fail to understand the consequences of censorship. I am not advocating murder or burning anyone. I think there are other ways to deal with this than censorship. You are trying to take the moral high ground. Your above story is an example of this. I will ask again... do you think a song about shooting and killing gay men should be allowed I mentioned my cousin after 3 pages of "discussion" it was hardly something I mentioned straight away in a rush to get to the moral high ground. Anyone who has friends/family members that are gay will have stories of abuse. There is censorship everywhere in UK... and we seem to be evolving as a society... anyone who thinks there is free speech is deluded.
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| 7mins In the bush 13 Mar 16 4.05pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
You haven't answered questions, you have just banged the same drum since the start that you support censorship and fail to understand the consequences of censorship. I am not advocating murder or burning anyone. I think there are other ways to deal with this than censorship. You are trying to take the moral high ground. Your above story is an example of this. What questions do you think I have avoided? I must admit I did zone out a bit when you compared a song about murdering gays with the Fast Food Rockers... but I don't think you can blame me for that.
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