VAR legal challenges

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VAR legal challenges

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Superhorns3 Harpdenden 29 Jul 20 10.32am
I did read at the time VAR wasn't allowed to intervene for some reason which just about sums it up! But it can rule on toe nails being offside and "handballs" for a shoulder .
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Superhorns3

Harpdenden 29 Jul 20 10.32am

I did read at the time VAR wasn't allowed to intervene for some reason which just about sums it up!

But it can rule on toe nails being offside and "handballs" for a shoulder .

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cryrst The garden of England 29 Jul 20 10.54am
Originally posted by steeleye20 There were 2 other VAR failures that night. And that is the whole point, we have given VAR 2 years to get it right but it doesn't, causing more hold-ups more controversy and still making wrong decisions, in which case what is the point. In fact our PL football is becoming a lottery, there is no point in attending matches if it is decided remotely. I wanted it to succeed after seeing the success of DRS in cricket, but they are chalk and cheese. One benefit for those relegated is that they can play football once again without it. The more changes and allowances you make for VAR, the worse it becomes. The difference with drs is that the final decision is umpires call even after its proved he may have it wrong. Hawkeye predicts the ball height and movement but not ground conditions on the pitch. In that way the umpire may be correct on an LBW even after its shown missing by hawkeye. All the ref in football needs to do is have the final say in a tight offside or subjective decisions. Basically look at the monitor. At least then the fans,well I would, think it wasnt a remote decision by a n other. Well Collina is now involved I read so maybe a forced change to the refs decision of using the monitor might happen. In europe the refs do look and I dont think there are as many arguments as over here.
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cryrst

The garden of England 29 Jul 20 10.54am

Originally posted by steeleye20

There were 2 other VAR failures that night.

And that is the whole point, we have given VAR 2 years to get it right but it doesn't, causing more hold-ups more controversy and still making wrong decisions, in which case what is the point.

In fact our PL football is becoming a lottery, there is no point in attending matches if it is decided remotely.

I wanted it to succeed after seeing the success of DRS in cricket, but they are chalk and cheese.

One benefit for those relegated is that they can play football once again without it.

The more changes and allowances you make for VAR, the worse it becomes.

The difference with drs is that the final decision is umpires call even after its proved he may have it wrong. Hawkeye predicts the ball height and movement but not ground conditions on the pitch. In that way the umpire may be correct on an LBW even after its shown missing by hawkeye.
All the ref in football needs to do is have the final say in a tight offside or subjective decisions.
Basically look at the monitor. At least then the fans,well I would, think it wasnt a remote decision by a n other. Well Collina is now involved I read so maybe a forced change to the refs decision of using the monitor might happen.
In europe the refs do look and I dont think there are as many arguments as over here.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 29 Jul 20 5.15pm
I still think it should be like other sports and each team has a set number of challenges in a game for the opportunity to use VAR relating to Dismissals, goals and Penalties. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 29 Jul 20 5.15pm

I still think it should be like other sports and each team has a set number of challenges in a game for the opportunity to use VAR relating to Dismissals, goals and Penalties.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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BlueJay UK 29 Jul 20 6.01pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 In what circumstances can VAR invoke a legal challenge? Bournemouth considering it apparently, a recent shocker of an evening which ended with the VAR people admitting their errors had affected 3 PL results, I think this was Villa v Sheff Utd. Their equipment was faulty (apparently) which should be their responsibility. VAR is imperfect but I don't see legal challenges as the way to go, and it opens a whole new can of worms that we can all do without.
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BlueJay

UK 29 Jul 20 6.01pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

In what circumstances can VAR invoke a legal challenge?

Bournemouth considering it apparently, a recent shocker of an evening which ended with the VAR people admitting their errors had affected 3 PL results, I think this was Villa v Sheff Utd.

Their equipment was faulty (apparently) which should be their responsibility.

VAR is imperfect but I don't see legal challenges as the way to go, and it opens a whole new can of worms that we can all do without.

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BlueJay UK 29 Jul 20 6.03pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 I still think it should be like other sports and each team has a set number of challenges in a game for the opportunity to use VAR relating to Dismissals, goals and Penalties. Not a bad idea really. It would add an element of strategy and hopefully stop the endless complaining.
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BlueJay

UK 29 Jul 20 6.03pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I still think it should be like other sports and each team has a set number of challenges in a game for the opportunity to use VAR relating to Dismissals, goals and Penalties.

Not a bad idea really. It would add an element of strategy and hopefully stop the endless complaining.

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cryrst The garden of England 29 Jul 20 8.23pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Not a bad idea really. It would add an element of strategy and hopefully stop the endless complaining. Unless the appeal would be to force the ref to check pitchside. Now that's the way to go with appealing although it would still be refs call. Our 'goal' against villa might well have stood.
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cryrst

The garden of England 29 Jul 20 8.23pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Not a bad idea really. It would add an element of strategy and hopefully stop the endless complaining.

Unless the appeal would be to force the ref to check pitchside. Now that's the way to go with appealing although it would still be refs call.
Our 'goal' against villa might well have stood.

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eritheagle Erith 30 Jul 20 6.05am
Originally posted by steeleye20 In what circumstances can VAR invoke a legal challenge? Bournemouth considering it apparently, a recent shocker of an evening which ended with the VAR people admitting their errors had affected 3 PL results, I think this was Villa v Sheff Utd. Their equipment was faulty (apparently) which should be their responsibility. The night of the 3 VAR mistakes was a different night. This was when Bournemouth got away with one as Kane should've got a penalty against them for being shoved over by King. The other 2 errors being Fernandez getting a generous penalty v Aston Villa (which helped B'mouth) and that odious little twerp Ward-Prowse cheating for a penalty v Everton. Aston Villa v Sheff Utd was the first game back after lockdown and the only other game that night was Man City v Arsenal (re-arranged fixtures due to League Cup final).
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eritheagle

Erith 30 Jul 20 6.05am

Originally posted by steeleye20

In what circumstances can VAR invoke a legal challenge?

Bournemouth considering it apparently, a recent shocker of an evening which ended with the VAR people admitting their errors had affected 3 PL results, I think this was Villa v Sheff Utd.

Their equipment was faulty (apparently) which should be their responsibility.

The night of the 3 VAR mistakes was a different night.
This was when Bournemouth got away with one as Kane should've got a penalty against them for being shoved over by King.
The other 2 errors being Fernandez getting a generous penalty v Aston Villa (which helped B'mouth) and that odious little twerp Ward-Prowse cheating for a penalty v Everton.

Aston Villa v Sheff Utd was the first game back after lockdown and the only other game that night was Man City v Arsenal (re-arranged fixtures due to League Cup final).

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crvenaeagle 30 Jul 20 1.37pm
Originally posted by cryrst The difference with drs is that the final decision is umpires call even after its proved he may have it wrong. Hawkeye predicts the ball height and movement but not ground conditions on the pitch. In that way the umpire may be correct on an LBW even after its shown missing by hawkeye. All the ref in football needs to do is have the final say in a tight offside or subjective decisions. Basically look at the monitor. At least then the fans,well I would, think it wasnt a remote decision by a n other. Well Collina is now involved I read so maybe a forced change to the refs decision of using the monitor might happen. In europe the refs do look and I dont think there are as many arguments as over here. You mean the revered Collina?
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crvenaeagle

30 Jul 20 1.37pm

Originally posted by cryrst

The difference with drs is that the final decision is umpires call even after its proved he may have it wrong. Hawkeye predicts the ball height and movement but not ground conditions on the pitch. In that way the umpire may be correct on an LBW even after its shown missing by hawkeye.
All the ref in football needs to do is have the final say in a tight offside or subjective decisions.
Basically look at the monitor. At least then the fans,well I would, think it wasnt a remote decision by a n other. Well Collina is now involved I read so maybe a forced change to the refs decision of using the monitor might happen.
In europe the refs do look and I dont think there are as many arguments as over here.

You mean the revered Collina?

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BlueJay UK 30 Jul 20 1.42pm
Originally posted by cryrst Unless the appeal would be to force the ref to check pitchside. Now that's the way to go with appealing although it would still be refs call. Our 'goal' against villa might well have stood. You make a good point there. But as you say, it's still the refs call so there's always that subjective aspect.
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BlueJay

UK 30 Jul 20 1.42pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Unless the appeal would be to force the ref to check pitchside. Now that's the way to go with appealing although it would still be refs call.
Our 'goal' against villa might well have stood.

You make a good point there. But as you say, it's still the refs call so there's always that subjective aspect.

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Pierre Purley 30 Jul 20 2.04pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 There were 2 other VAR failures that night. And that is the whole point, we have given VAR 2 years to get it right but it doesn't, causing more hold-ups more controversy and still making wrong decisions, in which case what is the point. In fact our PL football is becoming a lottery, there is no point in attending matches if it is decided remotely. I wanted it to succeed after seeing the success of DRS in cricket, but they are chalk and cheese. One benefit for those relegated is that they can play football once again without it. The more changes and allowances you make for VAR, the worse it becomes. Don't forget that DRS has taken time to Morph into what it is today. Hopefully VAR will be shaped in the same way over time so we all end up with something that is decisive, fair and not to time consuming. I personally think it must start with Ref's studying the monitors and Offsides using the players bodies not limbs, though they will still be fractions in it.
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Pierre

Purley 30 Jul 20 2.04pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

There were 2 other VAR failures that night.

And that is the whole point, we have given VAR 2 years to get it right but it doesn't, causing more hold-ups more controversy and still making wrong decisions, in which case what is the point.

In fact our PL football is becoming a lottery, there is no point in attending matches if it is decided remotely.

I wanted it to succeed after seeing the success of DRS in cricket, but they are chalk and cheese.

One benefit for those relegated is that they can play football once again without it.

The more changes and allowances you make for VAR, the worse it becomes.

Don't forget that DRS has taken time to Morph into what it is today.
Hopefully VAR will be shaped in the same way over time so we all end up with something that is decisive, fair and not to time consuming.
I personally think it must start with Ref's studying the monitors and Offsides using the players bodies not limbs, though they will still be fractions in it.

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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Jul 20 3.05pm
Originally posted by Pierre Don't forget that DRS has taken time to Morph into what it is today. Hopefully VAR will be shaped in the same way over time so we all end up with something that is decisive, fair and not to time consuming. I personally think it must start with Ref's studying the monitors and Offsides using the players bodies not limbs, though they will still be fractions in it. We already do have something decisive, fair and not too time-consuming P. It is called 'No VAR' and it is in the Championship right now. VAR is a 'pantomime' - RH. 'A busted system' - SP.
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steeleye20

Croydon 30 Jul 20 3.05pm

Originally posted by Pierre

We already do have something decisive, fair and not too time-consuming P.

It is called 'No VAR' and it is in the Championship right now.

VAR is a 'pantomime' - RH.
'A busted system' - SP.

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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Jul 20 3.16pm
Germany happy with VAR? You cannot be serious. Things nearly came to a head in the match I saw, where the 'Shiedsrichter' (ref to you) consulted the pitch-side monitor twice to be sure, taking over 5 minutes. He returned and awarded a penalty where it did not actually strike the arm, to the outrage of the home fans. And of course, as it is VAR, even then the ref was then shown subsequently to be wrong!!
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steeleye20

Croydon 30 Jul 20 3.16pm

Germany happy with VAR? You cannot be serious.

Things nearly came to a head in the match I saw, where the 'Shiedsrichter' (ref to you) consulted the pitch-side monitor twice to be sure, taking over 5 minutes.

He returned and awarded a penalty where it did not actually strike the arm, to the outrage of the home fans.

And of course, as it is VAR, even then the ref was then shown subsequently to be wrong!!

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