How do you know when a Manager has ‘lost’ the team

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Jan 23 4.39pm
Originally posted by PatrickA I’ve just read Vieira’s post match comments. You could cut and paste them from other games - ‘need to improve decision making ‘…’not taking chances’ …‘frustrating’….’improvement will take time as a young team.’ The trouble is we seem to be going backwards at the moment, both in terms of our passing and as a team. It seems clear that Vieira is unlikely to change his tactical approach or player preference in terms of selection. So what will be the catalyst for improvement if Vieira does not change his approach? It seems to me that it will have to be through the addition of first team ready players this window who can make an immediate impact, or through a step up in form from existing players like Olise, Eze and Edouard who have frankly disappointed this season. We have a decent points total so far this season, but by no means a sum to be complacent when you consider our imminent run of games. Agree with all of that. Must say though I hate it, absolutely hate it, now and always have, when a manager shows a distinct lack of acknowledgement or alignment with fans on the situation and repeats the same mantras over and over again without even hinting at an objective analysis and therefore plan to counteract pathetic performances and situation. Would suggest a lack of understanding and confidence in reversing the situation. Said it a few times now but outside of my personal feelings on him which are of no consequence, I think PV will be gone soon. Very worrying. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 07 Jan 23 4.39pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

I’ve just read Vieira’s post match comments.
You could cut and paste them from other games - ‘need to improve decision making ‘…’not taking chances’ …‘frustrating’….’improvement will take time as a young team.’
The trouble is we seem to be going backwards at the moment, both in terms of our passing and as a team.
It seems clear that Vieira is unlikely to change his tactical approach or player preference in terms of selection.
So what will be the catalyst for improvement if Vieira does not change his approach?
It seems to me that it will have to be through the addition of first team ready players this window who can make an immediate impact, or through a step up in form from existing players like Olise, Eze and Edouard who have frankly disappointed this season.
We have a decent points total so far this season, but by no means a sum to be complacent when you consider our imminent run of games.

Agree with all of that.

Must say though I hate it, absolutely hate it, now and always have, when a manager shows a distinct lack of acknowledgement or alignment with fans on the situation and repeats the same mantras over and over again without even hinting at an objective analysis and therefore plan to counteract pathetic performances and situation. Would suggest a lack of understanding and confidence in reversing the situation. Said it a few times now but outside of my personal feelings on him which are of no consequence, I think PV will be gone soon.

Very worrying.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Badger11 Beckenham 07 Jan 23 4.40pm
Until the board give PV some transfer funds I can't blame him. We need another hard tackling midfielder who will boss the opposition plus 2 fullbacks. I doubt we will get any of them during this window so I don't blame Pat. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 07 Jan 23 4.40pm

Until the board give PV some transfer funds I can't blame him.

We need another hard tackling midfielder who will boss the opposition plus 2 fullbacks. I doubt we will get any of them during this window so I don't blame Pat.

One more point

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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 07 Jan 23 4.58pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Until the board give PV some transfer funds I can't blame him. We need another hard tackling midfielder who will boss the opposition plus 2 fullbacks. I doubt we will get any of them during this window so I don't blame Pat. Complete rubbish, open your eyes, the players are nowhere as bad as the performances, get those PV tinted glasses off “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 07 Jan 23 4.58pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Until the board give PV some transfer funds I can't blame him.

We need another hard tackling midfielder who will boss the opposition plus 2 fullbacks. I doubt we will get any of them during this window so I don't blame Pat.

Complete rubbish, open your eyes, the players are nowhere as bad as the performances, get those PV tinted glasses off

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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Qwijibo Bournemouth 07 Jan 23 5.03pm
Originally posted by grumpymort What world are you living in no one has to do anything someone else tells them to do no matter the position they are in. Players have way more power than other staff. Lets use some other clubs for example who have had players not even turning up for training what does the club do nothing they have no power and some may sell the player which at times is what the player wants. Dele Ali clear example awful attitude yet clubs are still paying him for not doing anything. Achieved nothing? not sure what you mean they have reached the highest tier of the game in this country and are paid millions that is not nothing. Good to see we agree on one thing which is about Wilf. I don't need examples. I'm aware of what goes on. It doesn't mean it's right. It's the board's decision whether the manager should go, not the players. If you want examples, see Manchester United's form since Ronaldo left. Yes they're high achievers. Yes they're paid millions. They're paid millions to play football for Crystal Palace to the best of their ability. Under a management structure. They're not paid to direct club strategy, or recruit their own bosses. They're not entitled to decide whether the manager is worthy of their effort. Why are you so confrontational? Asking 'what planet I'm on?' In another thread you stated that someone was talking 'absolute rubbish' after they articulated some perfectly reasonable points. You don't have to agree with what people say, but it's not as if you yourself are anyone of any consequence. You're a complete irrelevance. Show some respect.
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Qwijibo

Bournemouth 07 Jan 23 5.03pm

Originally posted by grumpymort

What world are you living in no one has to do anything someone else tells them to do no matter the position they are in.

Players have way more power than other staff.

Lets use some other clubs for example who have had players not even turning up for training what does the club do nothing they have no power and some may sell the player which at times is what the player wants.

Dele Ali clear example awful attitude yet clubs are still paying him for not doing anything.

Achieved nothing? not sure what you mean they have reached the highest tier of the game in this country and are paid millions that is not nothing.

Good to see we agree on one thing which is about Wilf.

I don't need examples. I'm aware of what goes on. It doesn't mean it's right.

It's the board's decision whether the manager should go, not the players. If you want examples, see Manchester United's form since Ronaldo left.

Yes they're high achievers. Yes they're paid millions. They're paid millions to play football for Crystal Palace to the best of their ability. Under a management structure. They're not paid to direct club strategy, or recruit their own bosses. They're not entitled to decide whether the manager is worthy of their effort.

Why are you so confrontational? Asking 'what planet I'm on?' In another thread you stated that someone was talking 'absolute rubbish' after they articulated some perfectly reasonable points. You don't have to agree with what people say, but it's not as if you yourself are anyone of any consequence. You're a complete irrelevance. Show some respect.

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Crystal_Clear Belfast 07 Jan 23 5.23pm
When has a manager"lost" the team/dressing room ? When you lose 1-0 away at Forest 3-0 home to Fulham 4-0 home to Spurs 1-2 home to Southampton
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Crystal_Clear

Belfast 07 Jan 23 5.23pm

When has a manager"lost" the team/dressing room ?

When you lose

1-0 away at Forest
3-0 home to Fulham
4-0 home to Spurs
1-2 home to Southampton

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joe_cpfc Basingstoke 07 Jan 23 7.27pm
I don't think he's lost the team. If you watch all the training videos etc he seems to be really liked by all of them and they are always having a laugh together. I think the problem is if you mix a clueless manager and assistant with a dumb, lazy prima donna attack and useless full backs it's not going to work out too well.
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joe_cpfc

Basingstoke 07 Jan 23 7.27pm

I don't think he's lost the team. If you watch all the training videos etc he seems to be really liked by all of them and they are always having a laugh together.
I think the problem is if you mix a clueless manager and assistant with a dumb, lazy prima donna attack and useless full backs it's not going to work out too well.

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Willo Online South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jan 23 7.36pm
Originally posted by PatrickA I’ve just read Vieira’s post match comments. You could cut and paste them from other games - ‘need to improve decision making ‘…’not taking chances’ …‘frustrating’….’improvement will take time as a young team.’ The trouble is we seem to be going backwards at the moment, both in terms of our passing and as a team. It seems clear that Vieira is unlikely to change his tactical approach or player preference in terms of selection. So what will be the catalyst for improvement if Vieira does not change his approach? It seems to me that it will have to be through the addition of first team ready players this window who can make an immediate impact, or through a step up in form from existing players like Olise, Eze and Edouard who have frankly disappointed this season. We have a decent points total so far this season, but by no means a sum to be complacent when you consider our imminent run of games. I am in agreement apropos PVs post-match comments. I also concur with your sentiments regarding our direction of travel.It is very concerning.
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Willo Online

South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jan 23 7.36pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

I am in agreement apropos PVs post-match comments.

I also concur with your sentiments regarding our direction of travel.It is very concerning.

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dorking 07 Jan 23 10.09pm
Under Hodgson, I'm convinced he wanted to get out of the cups as quickly as possible - after all his job depended on keeping Palace up, and I think he saw the cups as potentially getting in the way of that. Hence weak teams in the cups, never playing Zaha in those games etc But Patrick has won the FA Cup 5 times, he's a winner and I'm sure he'd love to lift it as manager But he can't get a tune out of his team for more than 1 half per game at the moment. And we're not missing anyone really key to the team, like a Wilf or a Doucoure. As has already been said on here, the fans will tell SP when it's time. Just hope we don't then go chasing Southgate.
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dorking

07 Jan 23 10.09pm

Under Hodgson, I'm convinced he wanted to get out of the cups as quickly as possible - after all his job depended on keeping Palace up, and I think he saw the cups as potentially getting in the way of that. Hence weak teams in the cups, never playing Zaha in those games etc

But Patrick has won the FA Cup 5 times, he's a winner and I'm sure he'd love to lift it as manager

But he can't get a tune out of his team for more than 1 half per game at the moment. And we're not missing anyone really key to the team, like a Wilf or a Doucoure.

As has already been said on here, the fans will tell SP when it's time.

Just hope we don't then go chasing Southgate.

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Rachid Rachid Rachid 07 Jan 23 10.40pm
In answer to the original question I think it starts with the team failing to play to the manager's instructions and senior players briefing the Chairman and younger players against the manager. I've not seen anything on the pitch to suggest that's happening at the moment and the relative lack of "strong" characters has been highlighted already.
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Rachid Rachid Rachid

07 Jan 23 10.40pm

Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid

In answer to the original question I think it starts with the team failing to play to the manager's instructions and senior players briefing the Chairman and younger players against the manager.

I've not seen anything on the pitch to suggest that's happening at the moment and the relative lack of "strong" characters has been highlighted already.

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grumpymort US/Thailand/UK 07 Jan 23 10.49pm
Originally posted by Qwijibo I don't need examples. I'm aware of what goes on. It doesn't mean it's right. It's the board's decision whether the manager should go, not the players. If you want examples, see Manchester United's form since Ronaldo left. Yes they're high achievers. Yes they're paid millions. They're paid millions to play football for Crystal Palace to the best of their ability. Under a management structure. They're not paid to direct club strategy, or recruit their own bosses. They're not entitled to decide whether the manager is worthy of their effort. Why are you so confrontational? Asking 'what planet I'm on?' In another thread you stated that someone was talking 'absolute rubbish' after they articulated some perfectly reasonable points. You don't have to agree with what people say, but it's not as if you yourself are anyone of any consequence. You're a complete irrelevance. Show some respect. Tell this to FDB a few of SP chums who are players moaned he was fired. (VPN) - [Link] (Alt VPN) - [Link]
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grumpymort

US/Thailand/UK 07 Jan 23 10.49pm

Originally posted by Qwijibo

I don't need examples. I'm aware of what goes on. It doesn't mean it's right.

It's the board's decision whether the manager should go, not the players. If you want examples, see Manchester United's form since Ronaldo left.

Tell this to FDB a few of SP chums who are players moaned he was fired.

(VPN) - [Link]
(Alt VPN) - [Link]

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aashman12 08 Jan 23 10.01am
Originally posted by Qwijibo Well they need to do what the f*ing manager tells them to do. His managerial CV - not to mention his playing career - is infinitely better than anything any one of those lot has ever achieved. It's not their choice whether they turn up to work or not. Zaha was the only one who looked like he gave a s. And he is unlikely to be here in 6 months. Today it was like we had a good start, and then just assumed that because it was Southampton that the result was a formality. Then once we conceded, there was zero ability or desire to shift the tide of momentum. And worst of all.... it wasn't as if Southampton ground out a result. They were s. They are s. They will be s for the remainder of the season. Both their goals were f* ups from players just playing without the required intensity. So does that mean they don't respect the manager? I don't know. I don't want to give up on him yet. Where would that leave us? Eze could be good, Olise could be good, Edouard could be good, but none of them strike me as a leader of men when the going is tough. Where is MacArthur for 2023, or Jedinak, or anyone for that matter who will intimidate the opposition as well as our own players? Oh, what it would be to have a Bryan Robson, or a Roy Keane in midfield. Or a Vieira. His managerial cv is pretty thin
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aashman12

08 Jan 23 10.01am

Originally posted by Qwijibo

Well they need to do what the f***ing manager tells them to do. His managerial CV - not to mention his playing career - is infinitely better than anything any one of those lot has ever achieved.

It's not their choice whether they turn up to work or not.

Zaha was the only one who looked like he gave a s***. And he is unlikely to be here in 6 months.

Today it was like we had a good start, and then just assumed that because it was Southampton that the result was a formality. Then once we conceded, there was zero ability or desire to shift the tide of momentum. And worst of all.... it wasn't as if Southampton ground out a result. They were s***. They are s***. They will be s*** for the remainder of the season. Both their goals were f*** ups from players just playing without the required intensity.

So does that mean they don't respect the manager? I don't know. I don't want to give up on him yet. Where would that leave us?

Eze could be good, Olise could be good, Edouard could be good, but none of them strike me as a leader of men when the going is tough. Where is MacArthur for 2023, or Jedinak, or anyone for that matter who will intimidate the opposition as well as our own players?

Oh, what it would be to have a Bryan Robson, or a Roy Keane in midfield. Or a Vieira.

His managerial cv is pretty thin

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rikz Croydon 08 Jan 23 10.15am
Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad Complete rubbish, open your eyes, the players are nowhere as bad as the performances, get those PV tinted glasses off You think eze will win the ballon d'or in 3 years, your judgement on how good our players are is terrible. We've got about 5 regular players who wouldn't get into any other team in the prem, viera needs backing with funds and a chance to build his own team
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rikz

Croydon 08 Jan 23 10.15am

Originally posted by Lanzo-Ad

Complete rubbish, open your eyes, the players are nowhere as bad as the performances, get those PV tinted glasses off

You think eze will win the ballon d'or in 3 years, your judgement on how good our players are is terrible. We've got about 5 regular players who wouldn't get into any other team in the prem, viera needs backing with funds and a chance to build his own team

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