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Bias against Trump
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 Stirlingsays  17 Aug 17 12.43pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I doubt they'd be allowed to walk around tooled up in the streets if they were black males. If I remember rightly in their very early days the Black Panthers found a legal way to walk around armed and then Governor Regan introduced legislation to prevent that. You can't defend your 'freedom' if your freedom comes at the price of others - That's the contradiction inherent in White Nationalism - its against about 20% of the US citizens. It's an interesting point.....though obviously when you look at the murder statistics black males aren't having an issue getting tooled up.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Aug 17 12.47pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
No, I read your post. I agreed with a lot of it. Obviously though, I felt your emphasized 'local people' which I felt...well I'm hearing people say this and it's not really the case...Sure everything is to a scale but much of the violence in Charlottesville was from outsiders, both far right and left coming into town for essentially a punch up....all for the media to lap up and feed off....the media indirectly cause the scale to increase. Yep, the far right were there for a punch up. Previous situations at Berkeley and Boston where antifa were essentially using violence to achieve their aims has led to this.....All rallies are now coming with tools....guns? Well...it's inevitable. Having said this, I think it's completely valid to recognise that the far right are a violent group, that while rarely working together commit crimes and violence in the US that should be condemned and recognised....In America they are a larger problem than here and they spring from problematical ideologies rooted in America independence from government......not a problem on a low level, but taken to extremes very much a problem.
Difference really though is that Antifa exist as a protest group against the far right, and their supporters. Where as the otherside, the far right have among their list of political targets Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Blacks, Hispanics, Leftist, Liberals, Democrats and so on. And that's before you get to the political policies of National Socialists, the KKK et al.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 17 Aug 17 1.02pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Difference really though is that Antifa exist as a protest group against the far right, and their supporters. Where as the otherside, the far right have among their list of political targets Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Blacks, Hispanics, Leftist, Liberals, Democrats and so on. And that's before you get to the political policies of National Socialists, the KKK et al. It's true....though it shouldn't for forgotten that antifa are also anti capitalist anarchists. This is not a liberal group...they aren't pro liberal. Though I will say that from within their ranks you are obviously find a broad church as within any structure...Their numbers are probably swelling especially since their recent media exposures as 'savers'.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Aug 17 1.29pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's true....though it shouldn't for forgotten that antifa are also anti capitalist anarchists. This is not a liberal group...they aren't pro liberal. Though I will say that from within their ranks you are obviously find a broad church as within any structure...Their numbers are probably swelling especially since their recent media exposures as 'savers'. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Aug 2017 1.02pm) Nothing wrong with a bit of Anarchism and anti-capitalism, provided your not murdering people and bombing etc. Their number swelling won't last. People will join in the short term, because it makes sense to go where antifa are for this kind of protest (for self defence). But the politics of Marxist dogma won't stick. Its like when the BNP received large support, and then disappeared - the issues that bring people in, aren't enough to keep them. Hard core left dialectics are a difficult taste to acquire.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 17 Aug 17 1.54pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Nothing wrong with a bit of Anarchism and anti-capitalism, provided your not murdering people and bombing etc. Yep, fully agree. The free discussion and trading of ideas leads to the moderation of them and good ideas can even come out of initially bad ideas. If people aren't bashing you over the head or forcing things on you then it's a healthy aspect of wider democracy...well as I see it. I feel like the retreat into ever smaller bubbles isn't good for any of us and Hol works as a nice counter balance for me in that. I get my views both validated and challenged and I think that's healthy for all of us....well any of us that do any reflection at all. I see some possibilities in aspects of anarchism's dislike of leaders....though obviously as apart of the wider discussion. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Aug 2017 1.56pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 17 Aug 17 11.11pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Rather than soil the Barcelona thread and drag it off into this swamp, I'll comment on Trump's response to that awful attack here. He tweeted out a reference to General Pershing, which is an anecdote that was one of his staples on the campaign trail. General Pershing, as Trump tells it, ended Islamic terrorism for a generation by rounding up 50 Muslims, shooting 49 of them with bullets dipped in pigs' blood, and sending the 50th off to tell everyone what would happen to them. It's a story that gets merrily forwarded to your email by your relative who watches too much Fox News, and this is likely where Trump picked it up from as he has history of this. Like most such missives, though, it's completely untrue and never happened. Still, if it makes him feel good about himself after people have been killed in the street, then who am I to complain. And that encapsulates Trump's (and the populists generally on either side of the spectrum) ethos; providing simplistic solutions to complex problems will always appeal to the hard of thinking, but will be totally lacking in providing solutions. Using lies and distortions to appeal to his supporters has become the norm now; but why let that stand in the way of democracy!
I used to be immortal |
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| Mstrobez 18 Aug 17 5.24am |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
And that encapsulates Trump's (and the populists generally on either side of the spectrum) ethos; providing simplistic solutions to complex problems will always appeal to the hard of thinking, but will be totally lacking in providing solutions. Using lies and distortions to appeal to his supporters has become the norm now; but why let that stand in the way of democracy! Couldn't of put it better myself. Bang on
We're the Arthur over ere! |
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| Stirlingsays 18 Aug 17 9.37am |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Still, if it makes him feel good about himself after people have been killed in the street, then who am I to complain. What are you still doing on here moaning about Trump. Shouldn't you be out and about punching Nazis?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 18 Aug 17 9.47am |
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Originally posted by crystal balls
And that encapsulates Trump's (and the populists generally on either side of the spectrum) ethos; providing simplistic solutions to complex problems will always appeal to the hard of thinking, but will be totally lacking in providing solutions. Using lies and distortions to appeal to his supporters has become the norm now; but why let that stand in the way of democracy! I think it's valid to criticise Trump in the regard that he puts forward simplistic solutions and that he lies and distorts. Yep, all valid. However, he's been there six months and already he's managed to get China to implement trade sanctions onto North Korea that cost China themselves between 1 and 3 billion. Obama never managed that....Obama didn't concern the big hitters like China or Russia. Trump does. China know that the default position of Trump and Bannon is to have a trade war with them so they are keen to avoid it up to a point. Perhaps being tougher South Korean is their method and compromise position. I'm very aware that while its totally right to criticise Trump that you and posters like you will see everything he does through the same prism. So if Trump does something useful you will still demonise it. Sanders had the correct attitude and response to Trump as far as I can see.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Kermit8  Hevon 18 Aug 17 11.44pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
So Bannon is out, to cheers from the floor of the stock exchange (although it still closed down on the day after a brief rally). Three presidential councils have been disbanded as members quit in droves. The entirety of the president's arts council resigned en masse by open letter. Seven (and counting) charities have canceled their planned events at Mar-a-Lago. The mother of the woman killed in Charlottesville has stated that she wouldn't take a call from Trump even if he tried to make one. Trump is planning a campaign event in Phoenix tomorrow and that city's mayor has asked him not to come. This is about two days' worth of developments. It's all the liberal lefty and media's fault. Could have been the best President ever but they just won't lie down and not report on the incompetence. They are so obviously bias turning up every morning and doing the very basics of their job. It's wrong and it's typical of the progressives not to be fair and refuse to gloss over all the crap like us ultra-right are doing via forums and other social media. Edited by Kermit8 (18 Aug 2017 11.48pm)
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Stirlingsays 19 Aug 17 12.48am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
It's all the liberal lefty and media's fault. Could have been the best President ever but they just won't lie down and not report on the incompetence. They are so obviously bias turning up every morning and doing the very basics of their job. It's wrong and it's typical of the progressives not to be fair and refuse to gloss over all the crap like us ultra-right are doing via forums and other social media. Edited by Kermit8 (18 Aug 2017 11.48pm) Well, 'progressives' and the ultra right are kind of mirror images of themselves. As manipulation of narratives and 'winning' is more important to them anything else. For them there isn't the same level of balance that can normally be found by people not buying into agendas as much as they have a keen attachment to accuracy. The 'progressives' control most of the media.....So it's a false equivalence if anyone is making the point that their presence on platforms is in anyway equal. Indeed, 'progressive media' is looking to silence or reduce the influence of people on the right or even liberals who disagree with them... creating one eyed interpretations of events to justify their restrictive policies. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Aug 2017 1.38am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 19 Aug 17 2.30am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Well, 'progressives' and the ultra right are kind of mirror images of themselves. As manipulation of narratives and 'winning' is more important to them anything else. For them there isn't the same level of balance that can normally be found by people not buying into agendas as much as they have a keen attachment to accuracy. The 'progressives' control most of the media.....So it's a false equivalence if anyone is making the point that their presence on platforms is in anyway equal. Indeed, 'progressive media' is looking to silence or reduce the influence of people on the right or even liberals who disagree with them... creating one eyed interpretations of events to justify their restrictive policies. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Aug 2017 1.38am) Progressive media like the Sun and mail?
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| Stirlingsays 19 Aug 17 10.29am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Progressive media like the Sun and mail? I was referring to US media...but still, while the situation in the UK is a little different we can talk about that. The problems in the UK with radical Islam have been exacerbated by 'progressive' attitudes. The elements within Islam that have strictly conservative non secular attitudes are given cover by progressive adherents. The gang rapes of recent times with the reluctance of authorities to pursue areas where racism can be claimed are a concrete example of that. On Hol sure our progressives condemn Islamic attacks. And I believe them. But when reference is made to action to reform the problems on socially conservative and anti secular attitudes within Islam Then these same people appear to do nothing but criticise reform and those that pursue it. You yourself Nick, linked to a rather one eyed criticism of Nawez the other day from a bloke who works in a department funded by a Saudi Prince. As for an Islamic problem....well we have over twenty thousand people on extremist watch lists.....what do you call that Nick? A headache? As the Islamic population increases as a percentage of the population...and it doubled in the last ten years as it did in the last ten before that...as the population percent increases those extremist numbers are only going going to increase. Reform is the only path that avoids sickening violence. But here is Nick...criticising people for calling a problem....an actual problem.....Very Corbyn of you. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Aug 2017 10.59am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 19 Aug 17 1.25pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Stirling. I was referring to the Sun using provocative language that alludes to / copies rhetoric that was coming out of Nazi Germany, except they've changed the word Jewish to Muslim. You think this is ok? You are a disgrace to anyone who fought for the allies in either World war if so. nb. Deliberately chose over emotional remark as that seems to be Dr riguer for the far right sympathisers on here Seriously Nick, how can you complain about the use of provocative language? You can't do it yourself and then point at rags who do it! People who don't do it have perhaps more of a case. Also this idea that if someone said something in the past that we didn't like that it means that we can't use those same words is right out of teenage sixth form....that's not grown up at all. The Sun or the Mail are not nazis so all that is nonsense. If nazis are saying this stuff then that's perhaps different but it's paranoid and restrictive to finger point at everything....It's like 'sounds like' in a game of Charades. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Aug 2017 1.29pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 19 Aug 17 9.11pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Seriously Nick, how can you complain about the use of provocative language? You can't do it yourself and then point at rags who do it! People who don't do it have perhaps more of a case. Also this idea that if someone said something in the past that we didn't like that it means that we can't use those same words is right out of teenage sixth form....that's not grown up at all. The Sun or the Mail are not nazis so all that is nonsense. If nazis are saying this stuff then that's perhaps different but it's paranoid and restrictive to finger point at everything....It's like 'sounds like' in a game of Charades. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Aug 2017 1.29pm) So you are now defending the MSM using such provocative and naziesque language.
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| Stirlingsays 20 Aug 17 2.30am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
So you are now defending the MSM using such provocative and naziesque language. Well, I defend their right to say stuff.....Just like I defend the right of the morons you read to write stuff. If they are breaking the law then that's for the authorities. I'm not worried about newspapers committing violence. Saying something similar to someone else in the past isn't breaking the law.....That is like those conspiracy idiots who say that celebrities are free-masons because of hand movements in photos. It's just a disingenuous and crazy response. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Aug 2017 2.32am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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