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Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jul 16 7.14pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I don't disagree with your argument at all, I just think the way you stereotype young people is lazy and weak. Judging by the bit in bold, you clearly disagree with the stereotyping of all leavers as bigots, and rightly so, but how do you then justify proceeding to stereotype another massive portion of society in a similar manner, as you have done across numerous posts on here recently? Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (04 Jul 2016 6.59pm) When you simplify it they have started it and they are prolonging the arguments. Someone has to back down or it continues, and seeing as the young started it and still are, perhaps they should try backing down. I'm done with this particular part of the debate. It's up to them. Move on or wait to see what happens. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 04 Jul 16 7.14pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don't disagree with your argument at all, I just think the way you stereotype young people is lazy and weak.

Judging by the bit in bold, you clearly disagree with the stereotyping of all leavers as bigots, and rightly so, but how do you then justify proceeding to stereotype another massive portion of society in a similar manner, as you have done across numerous posts on here recently?

Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (04 Jul 2016 6.59pm)

When you simplify it they have started it and they are prolonging the arguments. Someone has to back down or it continues, and seeing as the young started it and still are, perhaps they should try backing down. I'm done with this particular part of the debate. It's up to them. Move on or wait to see what happens.

COYP

NickinOX Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 7.16pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I don't think you read your own link properly Cucking Just to be clear here is another definition that I took from a randomly selected site (Cambridge Online Dictionaries) ''not having the right to vote, or a similar right, or having had that right taken away:'' Funnily enough, I don't think you realized what you argued. Here it is, and I quote: "Let's try again shall we. 16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." As they never had the vote this statement is false in fact. Had you instead argued that they are disenfranchised by not being granted a vote, that might have been more reasonable. Funnily enough, this might help: [Link] As might this: [Link] Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 7.18pm) If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

NickinOX

Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 7.16pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I don't think you read your own link properly Cucking

Just to be clear here is another definition that I took from a randomly selected site (Cambridge Online Dictionaries)

''not having the right to vote, or a similar right, or having had that right taken away:''

Funnily enough, I don't think you realized what you argued. Here it is, and I quote: "Let's try again shall we. 16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised."

As they never had the vote this statement is false in fact. Had you instead argued that they are disenfranchised by not being granted a vote, that might have been more reasonable.

Funnily enough, this might help:

[Link]

As might this:

[Link]

Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 7.18pm)

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 7.19pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I have recently heard headlines from the remain camp regurgitated by young people who are supposed to be 'the educated young' compared to the bigoted idiots who voted leave. 3 million will lose their jobs Nobody will want to trade with us The EU is not to blame for immigration How does immigration affect housing? Leaving the EU will make housing cheaper If you really think enough of the 600,000 or so 16/17 year olds have enough knowledge or experience to analyse and make a decision that they haven't been brain washed into then fair enough. Only 36% of the 18-25 voted and then act like keyboard warriors who'd run a mile or clam once confronted. The best thing they can do is pull together and make the best of everything when a likely compromise or middle ground is reached with the EU members. You must hate me. If you didn't you would read my posts. To repeat, again. Young people voted in similar proportions to everyone else according to the London School of Economics survey undertaken by Opinium. Some quotes: Bruter and Harrison said they found turnout among young people to be far higher than data has so far suggested. “Young people cared and voted in very large numbers. We found turnout was very close to the national average, and much higher than in general and local elections. “After correcting for over-reporting [people always say they vote more than they do], we found that the likely turnout of 18- to 24-year-olds was 70% – just 2.5% below the national average – and 67% for 25- to 29-year-olds. Opinium also found that, on average, British voters now believe that the typical UK household will be £264 worse off every year over the next five years. More than 46.5 million people voted in the referendum on 23 June, which resulted in the UK voting by 51.9% to 49.1% to withdraw from the EU. More than 70% of people aged 18 to 24 voted to remain in the EU, while among those over 60 there was a large majority in favour of leaving.'

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Jul 16 7.19pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I have recently heard headlines from the remain camp regurgitated by young people who are supposed to be 'the educated young' compared to the bigoted idiots who voted leave.

3 million will lose their jobs
Nobody will want to trade with us
The EU is not to blame for immigration
How does immigration affect housing?
Leaving the EU will make housing cheaper

If you really think enough of the 600,000 or so 16/17 year olds have enough knowledge or experience to analyse and make a decision that they haven't been brain washed into then fair enough.

Only 36% of the 18-25 voted and then act like keyboard warriors who'd run a mile or clam once confronted. The best thing they can do is pull together and make the best of everything when a likely compromise or middle ground is reached with the EU members.

You must hate me. If you didn't you would read my posts. To repeat, again. Young people voted in similar proportions to everyone else according to the London School of Economics survey undertaken by Opinium. Some quotes:

Bruter and Harrison said they found turnout among young people to be far higher than data has so far suggested. “Young people cared and voted in very large numbers. We found turnout was very close to the national average, and much higher than in general and local elections.

“After correcting for over-reporting [people always say they vote more than they do], we found that the likely turnout of 18- to 24-year-olds was 70% – just 2.5% below the national average – and 67% for 25- to 29-year-olds.

Opinium also found that, on average, British voters now believe that the typical UK household will be £264 worse off every year over the next five years.

More than 46.5 million people voted in the referendum on 23 June, which resulted in the UK voting by 51.9% to 49.1% to withdraw from the EU. More than 70% of people aged 18 to 24 voted to remain in the EU, while among those over 60 there was a large majority in favour of leaving.'

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 04 Jul 16 7.24pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman There is a minority of racist incidents. These are low life scum and shouldn't be confused with us. The remainers who demand we undermine democracy are creating the poor behaviour, which is mainly online. If they cut it out then we can all move forward. More than likely the UK won't get everything the leavers want and then we'll all eventually move forward. The reverend on QT just after the ref had it right. I can't remember what he said but he was angry at the way the country was arguing with each other. Until they accept it, we cannot move forward. It is up to them. Until then, they are prolonging this divide. Nation divided is on Sky News tonight. The young can help to reverse the divide, or think about their own lives only. Edited by Rudi Hedman (04 Jul 2016 7.11pm) It's like you're taking the stereotyping high-ground - neither are fair or representative, so both are wrong - surely you can see the contradiction in what you're doing? As for the rest of the post, on the whole I agree - I was a remainer throughout, but the refusal to accept the result does nothing but hinder progress and further divide the country - but lazy stereotyping of large portions of society performs a very similar function in that regard.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 04 Jul 16 7.24pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

There is a minority of racist incidents. These are low life scum and shouldn't be confused with us.

The remainers who demand we undermine democracy are creating the poor behaviour, which is mainly online. If they cut it out then we can all move forward. More than likely the UK won't get everything the leavers want and then we'll all eventually move forward.

The reverend on QT just after the ref had it right. I can't remember what he said but he was angry at the way the country was arguing with each other. Until they accept it, we cannot move forward. It is up to them. Until then, they are prolonging this divide.

Nation divided is on Sky News tonight. The young can help to reverse the divide, or think about their own lives only.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (04 Jul 2016 7.11pm)

It's like you're taking the stereotyping high-ground - neither are fair or representative, so both are wrong - surely you can see the contradiction in what you're doing?

As for the rest of the post, on the whole I agree - I was a remainer throughout, but the refusal to accept the result does nothing but hinder progress and further divide the country - but lazy stereotyping of large portions of society performs a very similar function in that regard.

Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 7.24pm
Originally posted by NickinOX Funnily enough, I don't think you realized what you argued. Here it is, and I quote: "Let's try again shall we. 16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." As they never had the vote this statement is false in fact. Had you instead argued that they are disenfranchised by not being granted a vote, that might have been more reasonable. Funnily enough, this might help: [Link] As might this: [Link] Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 7.18pm) My points stand. Being disenfranchised is an accurate reflection and is not grammatically or logically incorrect. Your link is from 28 June. The data has been superseded, see above.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Jul 16 7.24pm

Originally posted by NickinOX

Funnily enough, I don't think you realized what you argued. Here it is, and I quote: "Let's try again shall we. 16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised."

As they never had the vote this statement is false in fact. Had you instead argued that they are disenfranchised by not being granted a vote, that might have been more reasonable.

Funnily enough, this might help:

[Link]

As might this:

[Link]

Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 7.18pm)

My points stand. Being disenfranchised is an accurate reflection and is not grammatically or logically incorrect.

Your link is from 28 June. The data has been superseded, see above.

Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jul 16 7.29pm
Originally posted by Mapletree You must hate me. If you didn't you would read my posts. To repeat, again. Young people voted in similar proportions to everyone else according to the London School of Economics survey undertaken by Opinium. Some quotes: Bruter and Harrison said they found turnout among young people to be far higher than data has so far suggested. “Young people cared and voted in very large numbers. We found turnout was very close to the national average, and much higher than in general and local elections. “After correcting for over-reporting [people always say they vote more than they do], we found that the likely turnout of 18- to 24-year-olds was 70% – just 2.5% below the national average – and 67% for 25- to 29-year-olds. Opinium also found that, on average, British voters now believe that the typical UK household will be £264 worse off every year over the next five years. More than 46.5 million people voted in the referendum on 23 June, which resulted in the UK voting by 51.9% to 49.1% to withdraw from the EU. More than 70% of people aged 18 to 24 voted to remain in the EU, while among those over 60 there was a large majority in favour of leaving.' Wasn't there other bodies with different findings/analysis? £264 per year is hardly crippling if you can adjust by making some minor adjustments. It is debt that sends the vulnerable over the edge and better wages, and dare I even say it, a vacancy to apply for when the living wage comes into effect in 2020 is going to go some way to improve their situation. For plenty of people it's £5 a year they won't even notice when chucking out £30 of food every week or the same on an unnecessary sugar and saturated fat laden take away. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 04 Jul 16 7.29pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Opinium also found that, on average, British voters now believe that the typical UK household will be £264 worse off every year over the next five years.

Wasn't there other bodies with different findings/analysis?

£264 per year is hardly crippling if you can adjust by making some minor adjustments.

It is debt that sends the vulnerable over the edge and better wages, and dare I even say it, a vacancy to apply for when the living wage comes into effect in 2020 is going to go some way to improve their situation.

For plenty of people it's £5 a year they won't even notice when chucking out £30 of food every week or the same on an unnecessary sugar and saturated fat laden take away.

COYP

Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jul 16 7.33pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow It's like you're taking the stereotyping high-ground - neither are fair or representative, so both are wrong - surely you can see the contradiction in what you're doing? As for the rest of the post, on the whole I agree - I was a remainer throughout, but the refusal to accept the result does nothing but hinder progress and further divide the country - but lazy stereotyping of large portions of society performs a very similar function in that regard. If someone acts like a spoilt and entitled brat, they or anyone shouldn't be surprised if someone tells them or takes the p1ss. They're adults now, that's how it works. They have or will experience this in early adulthood. I'm only doing it on here. I'm not going on facebook and feeding them. What would be the point? If it was face to face I'd tell them why I voted leave. It really comes back to they need to be the ones to relax and back down. They are fuelling the arguments. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 04 Jul 16 7.33pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It's like you're taking the stereotyping high-ground - neither are fair or representative, so both are wrong - surely you can see the contradiction in what you're doing?

If someone acts like a spoilt and entitled brat, they or anyone shouldn't be surprised if someone tells them or takes the p1ss. They're adults now, that's how it works. They have or will experience this in early adulthood.

I'm only doing it on here. I'm not going on facebook and feeding them. What would be the point? If it was face to face I'd tell them why I voted leave.

It really comes back to they need to be the ones to relax and back down. They are fuelling the arguments.

COYP

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 04 Jul 16 7.37pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman If someone acts like a spoilt and entitled brat, they or anyone shouldn't be surprised if someone tells them or takes the p1ss. They're adults now, that's how it works. They have or will experience this in early adulthood. I'm only doing it on here. I'm not going on facebook and feeding them. What would be the point? If it was face to face I'd tell them why I voted leave. It really comes back to they need to be the ones to relax and back down. They are fuelling the arguments. You're missing the point completely - if someone acts like a spoilt brat, feel free to tell them or take the piss - the difference is assuming everybody else within that demographic thinks and acts the same, as you and others have done many times on this thread - and it was those same voices posting about how unfair it is to label all leavers racists - it's exactly the same principle.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 04 Jul 16 7.37pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

I'm only doing it on here. I'm not going on facebook and feeding them. What would be the point? If it was face to face I'd tell them why I voted leave.

It really comes back to they need to be the ones to relax and back down. They are fuelling the arguments.

You're missing the point completely - if someone acts like a spoilt brat, feel free to tell them or take the piss - the difference is assuming everybody else within that demographic thinks and acts the same, as you and others have done many times on this thread - and it was those same voices posting about how unfair it is to label all leavers racists - it's exactly the same principle.

NickinOX Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 7.44pm
Originally posted by Mapletree My points stand. Being disenfranchised is an accurate reflection and is not grammatically or logically incorrect. Your link is from 28 June. The data has been superseded, see above. I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I simply pointed out that what you said did not match what you were claiming. As for the survey, it is only one of a number and just because it is a couple of days more recent does not guarantee it is more accurate. It also seems (at the moment), to be the only one claiming that. Of course, that may change. This survey reflects far more of the commentary in the press, but I would not take it as being any more definitive in isolation than the LSE one you cite: [Link] Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 8.02pm) If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

NickinOX

Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 7.44pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

My points stand. Being disenfranchised is an accurate reflection and is not grammatically or logically incorrect.

Your link is from 28 June. The data has been superseded, see above.

I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I simply pointed out that what you said did not match what you were claiming.

As for the survey, it is only one of a number and just because it is a couple of days more recent does not guarantee it is more accurate. It also seems (at the moment), to be the only one claiming that. Of course, that may change.

This survey reflects far more of the commentary in the press, but I would not take it as being any more definitive in isolation than the LSE one you cite:

[Link]

Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 8.02pm)

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Rudi Hedman Caterham 04 Jul 16 8.12pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow You're missing the point completely - if someone acts like a spoilt brat, feel free to tell them or take the piss - the difference is assuming everybody else within that demographic thinks and acts the same, as you and others have done many times on this thread - and it was those same voices posting about how unfair it is to label all leavers racists - it's exactly the same principle. Have we? If you can prove we have then fair enough, but I think I may have called the whingers, whiners, sulkers and complainers because that is what they're doing. I don't think I have criticised and labelled the whole demographic in that way. Well not intentionally anyway. Maybe things like the 'sulking youngsters' may have been used but that's specifically sulking youngsters, not all the young. Maybe I should label them the 'young and educated sulking and whingeing youngsters.' Maybe that'll be more specific. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 04 Jul 16 8.12pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You're missing the point completely - if someone acts like a spoilt brat, feel free to tell them or take the piss - the difference is assuming everybody else within that demographic thinks and acts the same, as you and others have done many times on this thread - and it was those same voices posting about how unfair it is to label all leavers racists - it's exactly the same principle.

Have we? If you can prove we have then fair enough, but I think I may have called the whingers, whiners, sulkers and complainers because that is what they're doing. I don't think I have criticised and labelled the whole demographic in that way. Well not intentionally anyway. Maybe things like the 'sulking youngsters' may have been used but that's specifically sulking youngsters, not all the young.

Maybe I should label them the 'young and educated sulking and whingeing youngsters.' Maybe that'll be more specific.

COYP

Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 8.20pm
Originally posted by NickinOX I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I simply pointed out that what you said did not match what you were claiming. As for the survey, it is only one of a number and just because it is a couple of days more recent does not guarantee it is more accurate. It also seems (at the moment), to be the only one claiming that. Of course, that may change. This survey reflects far more of the commentary in the press, but I would not take it as being any more definitive in isolation than the LSE one you cite: [Link] Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 8.02pm) I must be missing something I don't see any empirical data on turnout patterns by age. All I see is that overall where there were higher numbers of older people the turnout was higher. On its own that means nothing. It is linked to geography not to the demographic. So it isn't on a par with the LSE survey as you imply. To be clear, you don't have to be engaged to become disengaged. You don't have to have been enchanted to be disenchanted. You don't have to have been illusioned to be disillusioned. You don't have to have been interested to be disinterested. I think my point is obvious on disenfranchisement. Edited by Mapletree (04 Jul 2016 8.21pm)

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Jul 16 8.20pm

Originally posted by NickinOX

I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I simply pointed out that what you said did not match what you were claiming.

This survey reflects far more of the commentary in the press, but I would not take it as being any more definitive in isolation than the LSE one you cite:

[Link]

Edited by NickinOX (04 Jul 2016 8.02pm)

I must be missing something

I don't see any empirical data on turnout patterns by age. All I see is that overall where there were higher numbers of older people the turnout was higher. On its own that means nothing. It is linked to geography not to the demographic. So it isn't on a par with the LSE survey as you imply.

To be clear, you don't have to be engaged to become disengaged. You don't have to have been enchanted to be disenchanted. You don't have to have been illusioned to be disillusioned. You don't have to have been interested to be disinterested. I think my point is obvious on disenfranchisement.

Edited by Mapletree (04 Jul 2016 8.21pm)

NickinOX Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 8.50pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I must be missing something I don't see any empirical data on turnout patterns by age. All I see is that overall where there were higher numbers of older people the turnout was higher. On its own that means nothing. It is linked to geography not to the demographic. So it isn't on a par with the LSE survey as you imply. To be clear, you don't have to be engaged to become disengaged. You don't have to have been enchanted to be disenchanted. You don't have to have been illusioned to be disillusioned. You don't have to have been interested to be disinterested. I think my point is obvious on disenfranchisement. Edited by Mapletree (04 Jul 2016 8.21pm) I think you are missing something. Clearly, I need to quote your own words back to you again: "16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." i.e. They had the franchise, then it was removed and they are bitter about it. I don't disagree that someone can be disenfranchised without having ever had the vote, but that is not what you wrote. You are right, there is no empirical data. I never claimed there was. In fact, despite your attempt at a straw man argument, I pointed out the surveys provided no more than pieces of information that were to be treated with scepticism in isolation. The two links I provided merely show some information about Brexit voters, and some journalists' interpretation of the information. Nothing more. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

NickinOX

Sailing country. 04 Jul 16 8.50pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I must be missing something

Edited by Mapletree (04 Jul 2016 8.21pm)

I think you are missing something.

Clearly, I need to quote your own words back to you again: "16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." i.e. They had the franchise, then it was removed and they are bitter about it. I don't disagree that someone can be disenfranchised without having ever had the vote, but that is not what you wrote.

You are right, there is no empirical data. I never claimed there was. In fact, despite your attempt at a straw man argument, I pointed out the surveys provided no more than pieces of information that were to be treated with scepticism in isolation. The two links I provided merely show some information about Brexit voters, and some journalists' interpretation of the information. Nothing more.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jul 16 8.58pm
You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Jul 16 8.58pm

You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous.

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 04 Jul 16 9.04pm
Disenfranchised my Ass. The Only thing kids at that age should be disenfranchised about is what to wear at the weekend & whether they are going to get their leg over. Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 04 Jul 16 9.04pm

Disenfranchised my Ass. The Only thing kids at that age should be disenfranchised about is what to wear at the weekend & whether they are going to get their leg over.

Pro USA & Israel

Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.05pm
Originally posted by NickinOX I think you are missing something. Clearly, I need to quote your own words back to you again: "16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." i.e. They had the franchise, then it was removed and they are bitter about it. I don't disagree that someone can be disenfranchised without having ever had the vote, but that is not what you wrote. You are right, there is no empirical data. I never claimed there was. In fact, despite your attempt at a straw man argument, I pointed out the surveys provided no more than pieces of information that were to be treated with scepticism in isolation. The two links I provided merely show some information about Brexit voters, and some journalists' interpretation of the information. Nothing more. Sadly you don't understand the definition of the word. You don't have to have been enfranchised to become disenfranchised, merely to feel it. I tried to explain but am now disillusioned and disinterested. Regarding voting patterns, you can't treat each source equally. Only one is based on proper analysis. You imply each source should be treated as valid and equal, not true.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.05pm

Originally posted by NickinOX

I think you are missing something.

Clearly, I need to quote your own words back to you again: "16 and 17 year olds are bitter at being disenfranchised." i.e. They had the franchise, then it was removed and they are bitter about it. I don't disagree that someone can be disenfranchised without having ever had the vote, but that is not what you wrote.

Sadly you don't understand the definition of the word. You don't have to have been enfranchised to become disenfranchised, merely to feel it. I tried to explain but am now disillusioned and disinterested.

Regarding voting patterns, you can't treat each source equally. Only one is based on proper analysis. You imply each source should be treated as valid and equal, not true.

elgrande bedford 04 Jul 16 9.07pm
Originally posted by nickgusset You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous. Only as a junior soldier,can not do active service. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 04 Jul 16 9.07pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous.

Only as a junior soldier,can not do active service.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande bedford 04 Jul 16 9.08pm
Originally posted by nickgusset You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous. And do you really think sixteen year olds have enough about them to vote . always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 04 Jul 16 9.08pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

You can join the army at 16 but not have a say in how the country is governed! Ridiculous.

And do you really think sixteen year olds have enough about them to vote .

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.09pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Disenfranchised my Ass. The Only thing kids at that age should be disenfranchised about is what to wear at the weekend & whether they are going to get their leg over. Do you know, I used to wonder why we got so few new posters and so few from our younger supporters. Of course, the reason must be they are lazy, feckless and have no interest in Palace, local affairs or current affairs. Or, just maybe, they don't feel especially welcomed or valued.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.09pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Disenfranchised my Ass. The Only thing kids at that age should be disenfranchised about is what to wear at the weekend & whether they are going to get their leg over.

Do you know, I used to wonder why we got so few new posters and so few from our younger supporters. Of course, the reason must be they are lazy, feckless and have no interest in Palace, local affairs or current affairs. Or, just maybe, they don't feel especially welcomed or valued.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Jul 16 9.09pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Sadly you don't understand the definition of the word. You don't have to have been enfranchised to become disenfranchised, merely to feel it. I tried to explain but am now disillusioned and disinterested. Regarding voting patterns, you can't treat each source equally. Only one is based on proper analysis. You imply each source should be treated as valid and equal, not true. This song sums up the last 12 hours... [Link] You are both right regarding disenfranchisement. All about context and semantics innit!

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Jul 16 9.09pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Regarding voting patterns, you can't treat each source equally. Only one is based on proper analysis. You imply each source should be treated as valid and equal, not true.

This song sums up the last 12 hours...

[Link]

You are both right regarding disenfranchisement. All about context and semantics innit!

Mapletree Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.10pm
Originally posted by elgrande And do you really think sixteen year olds have enough about them to vote . Absobloominglutely. Put my daughter in a room with my mother and see who wins the debates. And my mother is a denizen of a certain national political party, attending conferences n everything.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Jul 16 9.10pm

Originally posted by elgrande

And do you really think sixteen year olds have enough about them to vote .

Absobloominglutely.

Put my daughter in a room with my mother and see who wins the debates. And my mother is a denizen of a certain national political party, attending conferences n everything.

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