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General Election 2017


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Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 17 11.54am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

A pro-austerity economist is certainly a very rare breed these days. We should have you stuffed and put on display.

Yeah, all those successful businessness run by economic students.

I can think of....none actually.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH Flag SW2 07 Jun 17 11.57am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, all those successful businessness run by economic students.

I can think of....none actually.

Well this is awkward.

[Link]

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 07 Jun 17 12.01pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, all those successful businessness run by economic students.

I can think of....none actually.

Come on Stirling.
You should know that twenty something graduates always know best.

 

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 07 Jun 17 12.03pm

Originally posted by Hansy

Those on minimum wage are mostly low-skilled labour. So that won't have a huge impact on businesses moving. Agree that there is a huge difference in terms of city capacity compared to London and Dublin. But if a country potentially sees an increase in investment, they will do what is necessary to get them there.

Labour are planning minimum wage to be £10 an hour, Ireland is £8.11 an hour.

If we don't gain single market access with Corbyn in charge, it will be much more beneficial for financial businesses to set up Ireland offices as an example. That is why I believe the rates are low, to keep investment and add to it just in case the EU deny us the privilege.

Edited by Hansy (07 Jun 2017 11.41am)

They won't deny us access. It's not in their interests. Labour's policy is to gain single market access. The Tories' policy is not. They don't seem to have an actual policy. Just Brexit means Brexit and No Deal is better than a Bad Deal. Meaningless waffle.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 07 Jun 17 12.04pm

We are going up,

Why don't you to take the hit and pay yourself equal to what your employees are on?

That's what they expect you to do. Seems worthwhile with all the responsibility and stress.

 


COYP

hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 07 Jun 17 12.08pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Woah guys. Step back. We have an expert talking.

It is depressing that a lot of people think the only reason businesses trade in this country is they can get filthy rich and give nothing back. I like to think we have a bit more to offer, dont we? Relatively stable civil society, great culture, history...do none of these things stop a rich person f***ing off if they have to pay a bit more tax?

And even under corbyns proposals, corp tax will be 14% lower than America's. So come on mr business expert, why have they not experienced capital flight?

Profits are the index of what people want, not good or bad. Where high profits are being made, there is unsatisfied demand, and the high profits will attract more capital and more energy into meeting it

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Hansy Flag 07 Jun 17 12.12pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They won't deny us access. It's not in their interests. Labour's policy is to gain single market access. The Tories' policy is not. They don't seem to have an actual policy. Just Brexit means Brexit and No Deal is better than a Bad Deal. Meaningless waffle.

Tory have said they will get the best possible deal. They are negotiators. Corbyn just beleives they will get the access they want.

Labour are willing to pay the full 100bn quoted, where are they going to get this then?

The EU will do what they believe is right to keep the EU in tact. If the UK gets the same deal we had in there or similar, without having to pay the membership fees other countries will follow. Not something they want.

No deal is better than a bad deal. If Liverpool wanted 100m for Sakho, should we buy him with the worry we might go under? Crap comparison I know, but it works in a similar way.

 

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 07 Jun 17 12.18pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!

There are many reasons for me to vote Conservative.

I'm pro responsible spending and certainly pro investment in the right areas. The idea that the Tories are underspending is frankly a nonsense, they're spending a higher proportion of GDP [Link] than New Labour did.

What I'm against is killing off small businesses with hikes in corporation tax, raising the minimum wage and abolishing zero hours contracts. I run a small business and I will have to lay off at least one member of staff if he gets in and I am far from an exploitative employer. Getting quite sick of hearing Corbyn say that people like me are the scourge in our society when I've provided jobs to people.

It's really as simple as that. Corbyn does not represent the view that I have of the economy and what I think should be done with it.

I'm also pro-Brexit and free trade and want to get those policies through. We can genuinely lift African farmers out of extreme poverty by trading with them, there's currently an obscene tariff on their exports meaning they can't trade with us. We get cheaper food, they get good business and become wealthier (and will one day use our financial services), making their government elites less powerful etc etc. That's another argument I suppose.

I have many reservations about Theresa May, but the Conservatives in my eyes are the only option at this election.

You do realise that the graph showing shorter bars since New Labour left government means they have spent LESS as a % of GDP not more? Also that data is from 2013 and we've moved forward in time 4 years since then? It's fallen every year since 2010 as a % of GDP up to and including this year. Whatsmore our public spending is reasonably small compared to other economies around the world, so it can hardly be described as having been abnormally large. All these cuts, destroying public services, but still they miss every target on the deficit and debt. That simple graph also ignores aspects like the NHS funding gap (aka underfunding) and the cuts in school per pupil budgets and cuts in the police force just to name a couple.

Labour's proposal for corporation tax would see CT on SMALL businesses at 20%. I assume you've overlooked that fact? He's actually said the opposite saying that small businesses are the lifeblood of the economy and it's big business that has had an unfair advantage and been exploitative. The increase in minimum wage would enable people to have a proper living wage and Labour have said they would look at providing tax breaks to small businesses impacted. Furthermore improvements in education and productivity resulting from investment in education and training will benefit businesses small and large.

Neither party has said anything about specific trade deals, however I would imagine Labour would be more concerned with protecting workers rights while tackling world poverty than the Tories.

 

Kermit8 Flag Hevon 07 Jun 17 12.20pm

Originally posted by Hansy

Tory have said they will get the best possible deal. They are negotiators. Corbyn just beleives they will get the access they want.

Labour are willing to pay the full 100bn quoted, where are they going to get this then?

The EU will do what they believe is right to keep the EU in tact. If the UK gets the same deal we had in there or similar, without having to pay the membership fees other countries will follow. Not something they want.

No deal is better than a bad deal. If Liverpool wanted 100m for Sakho, should we buy him with the worry we might go under? Crap comparison I know, but it works in a similar way.

We are obliged to pay what we owe whether it's £25bill, 50 or 100. Who will trade confidently with us if we walk away and renege on signed deals? No one in Europe that's for sure. Maybe we can trade with those lovely Islamic Fundamentalist regimes a bit more.

The Tories will have to pay up too.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 07 Jun 17 12.20pm

Originally posted by Hansy

Tory have said they will get the best possible deal. They are negotiators. Corbyn just beleives they will get the access they want.

Labour are willing to pay the full 100bn quoted, where are they going to get this then?

The EU will do what they believe is right to keep the EU in tact. If the UK gets the same deal we had in there or similar, without having to pay the membership fees other countries will follow. Not something they want.

No deal is better than a bad deal. If Liverpool wanted 100m for Sakho, should we buy him with the worry we might go under? Crap comparison I know, but it works in a similar way.

Corbyn says the 100bn is a figure he doesn't recognise - i.e. he wouldn't just accept it.

No deal is the worst possible deal. Your analogy is completely unfit for a relationship as complex as ours with the EU. No deal doesn't exist. There have to be certain rules and agreements to be able to do any trade, share security info or even go on holiday to Europe.

Kier Starmer would be much better a negotiator IMO than anyone the Tories have to offer.

 

hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 07 Jun 17 12.29pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Corbyn says the 100bn is a figure he doesn't recognise - i.e. he wouldn't just accept it.

No deal is the worst possible deal. Your analogy is completely unfit for a relationship as complex as ours with the EU. No deal doesn't exist. There have to be certain rules and agreements to be able to do any trade, share security info or even go on holiday to Europe.

Kier Starmer would be much better a negotiator IMO than anyone the Tories have to offer.

"Doesn't recognise" means he wouldn't pay it does it? It is just another example of the weasel words used by the 'man of principle'. When asked if he would reduce immigration he always says "free movement will cease with Brexit". Of course he does not say that he will introduce any immigration controls at all. He believes that immigration is a unmitigated blessing, no doubt he wants more.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 07 Jun 17 12.32pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

"Doesn't recognise" means he wouldn't pay it does it? It is just another example of the weasel words used by the 'man of principle'. When asked if he would reduce immigration he always says "free movement will cease with Brexit". Of course he does not say that he will introduce any immigration controls at all. He believes that immigration is a unmitigated blessing, no doubt he wants more.

Lol it's the EXACT same words used by David Davis.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 17 12.47pm

Originally posted by DanH

Well this is awkward.

[Link]

Trump!

Yeah, awkward but not for me son.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 07 Jun 17 12.52pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Lol it's the EXACT same words used by David Davis.

Are they really? I can assure you that they are my words, I have not seen those of Davis. When and where did he say them?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 17 12.52pm

In a world without accountants where everyone paid their taxes Labour might actually be worth looking at.

Well, if you could hold your nose at their defence and security policies.

Unfortunately we don't live in a world where Robin Hood actually wins.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jun 17 12.55pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Are they really? I can assure you that they are my words, I have not seen those of Davis. When and where did he say them?

Yeah...Corbyn and Davies.....birds of a feather.

Your point was right. Corbyn would probably be a supplicant while Davies will actually get a good deal in all likelihood.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 07 Jun 17 12.58pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You do realise that the graph showing shorter bars since New Labour left government means they have spent LESS as a % of GDP not more? Also that data is from 2013 and we've moved forward in time 4 years since then? It's fallen every year since 2010 as a % of GDP up to and including this year. Whatsmore our public spending is reasonably small compared to other economies around the world, so it can hardly be described as having been abnormally large. All these cuts, destroying public services, but still they miss every target on the deficit and debt. That simple graph also ignores aspects like the NHS funding gap (aka underfunding) and the cuts in school per pupil budgets and cuts in the police force just to name a couple.

Labour's proposal for corporation tax would see CT on SMALL businesses at 20%. I assume you've overlooked that fact? He's actually said the opposite saying that small businesses are the lifeblood of the economy and it's big business that has had an unfair advantage and been exploitative. The increase in minimum wage would enable people to have a proper living wage and Labour have said they would look at providing tax breaks to small businesses impacted. Furthermore improvements in education and productivity resulting from investment in education and training will benefit businesses small and large.

Neither party has said anything about specific trade deals, however I would imagine Labour would be more concerned with protecting workers rights while tackling world poverty than the Tories.


I'm sorry but we must be looking at a different graph. Post 2010 it quite clearly spiked and as a result has had to come down, but still pretty much at our pre crash level. There is no mass austerity. Our debt-to-GDP has gone from 50% pre crash to 89%. That is mental.

The idea that we should subsequently raise taxes on corporations (and by the way I can't find the 20% figure other than reintroducing a small profits tax rate which is something very different) to make ourselves even less competitive seems, again, mental. There is no evidence that mass spending by the state results in increased productivity and a stronger economy. See paper here: [Link]

You're right on trade deals, but without Brexit we won't get trade deals anywhere other than the EU, and I'd rather we opened up our markets. The only way that's going to happen is by voting Tory.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Hansy Flag 07 Jun 17 1.16pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Corbyn says the 100bn is a figure he doesn't recognise - i.e. he wouldn't just accept it.

No deal is the worst possible deal. Your analogy is completely unfit for a relationship as complex as ours with the EU. No deal doesn't exist. There have to be certain rules and agreements to be able to do any trade, share security info or even go on holiday to Europe.

Kier Starmer would be much better a negotiator IMO than anyone the Tories have to offer.

Firstly we are only obliged to pay what is designated in the treaties. Not the full funding we agreed to until the end of the EU budget, which in that case we wouldn't need to negotiate until 2019 (Due to the next EU budget starting in 2021). This with the amount of assets we hold in development banks and funds to.

No deal isn't the worst solution. From the WTO guidelines 1/3 of our goods imported/exported are not marked up in tariffs, with cars being the biggest % increase (10%) which we import.

I'll stop now on Brexit, we have another thread for that.

 

susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Jun 17 1.22pm

Originally posted by Willo

In Australia, even in local elections, one has to vote else one is fined.Think it is 20 AUD for the first offence and 50 AUD thereafter.Believe the current exchange rate is about 1.6 AUD to £1.

Yes but Rudi lives in Caterham not Australia?

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Jun 17 1.27pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Where do you think all these people will go? Bear in mind the costings incorporate change of behaviour.

I would end up paying more in tax if Labour win but I won't be leaving. I'm more likely to leave if Tories win as I value public services and my wife works in the NHS and it's disheartening to see what Jeremy *unt and the Tories have done to it over the last 7 years and the direction of travel they are committing to.

Is that a promise??

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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