This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
General Election 2017
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
 serial thriller  The Promised Land 07 Jun 17 1.28pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
In a world without accountants where everyone paid their taxes Labour might actually be worth looking at. Well, if you could hold your nose at their defence and security policies. Unfortunately we don't live in a world where Robin Hood actually wins. We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
|
| Hansy 07 Jun 17 1.32pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by serial thriller
Labour have to get more votes, for it to be a 'People's movement'. i.e. Brexit
|
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Jun 17 1.33pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by serial thriller
We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government. I wouldn't mind but I'd want a vote of no confidence and a snap election the moment it goes disastrously wrong.
COYP |
|
Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 07 Jun 17 1.38pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by serial thriller
We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government. So people who vote for anyone else are bad & dishonest?
|
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 1.40pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by hedgehog50
Are they really? I can assure you that they are my words, I have not seen those of Davis. When and where did he say them?
|
|
| hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Jun 17 1.45pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Ok, I see what you are getting at now, I thought you meant my words not those of Davis. Him using 'don't recognise' as well is also daft. However, I still think he will get a better deal than Corbyn would. Personally, I would like the EU to pay us in compensation for all the harm they have done!
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
|
| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Jun 17 1.45pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Kermit8
We are obliged to pay what we owe whether it's £25bill, 50 or 100. Who will trade confidently with us if we walk away and renege on signed deals? No one in Europe that's for sure. Maybe we can trade with those lovely Islamic Fundamentalist regimes a bit more. The Tories will have to pay up too. You got that wrong mate. Here are the facts that are on the table: From the European perspective, the UK will have to settle the bar tab before leaving the pub. It's ordered a bunch of rounds already and promised to buy its friends a whole bunch more. Basically the UK has to pay up for spending promised in the past and spending promised into the future. Although there are those in the UK government who have suggested it's more like being a member of a gym. When you leave you aren't asked to continue paying your fees so others can enjoy its benefits without you. The EU is tetchy about it being called a "Brexit bill" they say it's just about "settling accounts". :: So how much does the EU say we owe? It's been described (by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker) as "hefty" and put as high as €100bn (£80bn). Until recently, the €60bn had been touted as the most likely figure because it is the sum the European Commission has arrived at, however, EU negotiators are now said to have put that closer to €100bn. But lawyers have told the UK Government it does not owe a penny and should actually be asking for money back.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
|
 Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jun 17 1.46pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by serial thriller
We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government. What a lot of deluded crap. Politicians are not your friends. They are not going to make your life better. Wake up FFS.
|
|
| Hansy 07 Jun 17 1.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
What a lot of deluded crap. Politicians are not your friends. They are not going to make your life better. Wake up FFS. - Who hate eachother
|
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 1.51pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hansy
Labour have to get more votes, for it to be a 'People's movement'. i.e. Brexit Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 1.51pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by serial thriller
We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government. Boy, reality is certainly going to prick your bubble.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 1.52pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by We are goin up!
The idea that we should subsequently raise taxes on corporations (and by the way I can't find the 20% figure other than reintroducing a small profits tax rate which is something very different) to make ourselves even less competitive seems, again, mental. There is no evidence that mass spending by the state results in increased productivity and a stronger economy. See paper here: [Link] You're right on trade deals, but without Brexit we won't get trade deals anywhere other than the EU, and I'd rather we opened up our markets. The only way that's going to happen is by voting Tory. 2009-10 was the peak year in that graph. So post 2010 there was a decline. In every year. There is clearly austerity. You're deluded if you don't think so. Cutting spending as a % of GDP during times of economic depression is bad economics. Bear in mind also the areas facing cuts - public services and education. The Tories have borrowed more in the last 7 years than the previous government by a huge stretch. How many small businesses make profits in excess of the small profits threshold? 20/26% CT is very competitive in the developed world. Ireland's CT rate has been well below ours for some time and it's not made any difference until Brexit, which is the reason for companies moving operations to Dublin no tax competitiveness. The argument isn't for random spending it's for investment in skills and infrastructure and health care, all of which does improve productivity in the medium to long run. This is of much greater benefit to all companies than a few percentage points in CT. Your point on Tories being the only ones who will deliver Brexit is garbage. Labour are committed to delivering Brexit and in doing so keeping single market access (aka free trade).
|
|
| Stirlingsays 07 Jun 17 1.55pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so.
68 percent in an ICM poll this year.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| DanH SW2 07 Jun 17 1.57pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
68 percent in an ICM poll this year. Someone should have shown that poll to Theresa May before she called the election.
|
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 1.57pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by susmik
You got that wrong mate. Here are the facts that are on the table: From the European perspective, the UK will have to settle the bar tab before leaving the pub. It's ordered a bunch of rounds already and promised to buy its friends a whole bunch more. Basically the UK has to pay up for spending promised in the past and spending promised into the future. Although there are those in the UK government who have suggested it's more like being a member of a gym. When you leave you aren't asked to continue paying your fees so others can enjoy its benefits without you. The EU is tetchy about it being called a "Brexit bill" they say it's just about "settling accounts". :: So how much does the EU say we owe? It's been described (by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker) as "hefty" and put as high as €100bn (£80bn). Until recently, the €60bn had been touted as the most likely figure because it is the sum the European Commission has arrived at, however, EU negotiators are now said to have put that closer to €100bn. But lawyers have told the UK Government it does not owe a penny and should actually be asking for money back.
If you sign a lease which has a break penalty in it you have to pay the penalty if you break is a much better analogy. The amount payable will depend on the wording and terms of the clause. Much of the "bill" is in contingent liabilities on EU loans to which the UK is a guarantor (legally) so it will be lower than 100bn as not all of these loans will be bad. There may well be grounds for arguing that UK is due something back from the EU or that budgets aren't legal obligations (I don't know if they are or not). But the loan guarantees are definite legal obligations. Like the rest of the negotiations I imagine there will have to be some give and take and perhaps the "bill" will have elements of clawback or overage (which seems sensible). Edited by CambridgeEagle (07 Jun 2017 1.59pm)
|
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 1.58pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by We are goin up!
There are many reasons for me to vote Conservative. I'm pro responsible spending and certainly pro investment in the right areas. The idea that the Tories are underspending is frankly a nonsense, they're spending a higher proportion of GDP [Link] than New Labour did. What I'm against is killing off small businesses with hikes in corporation tax, raising the minimum wage and abolishing zero hours contracts. I run a small business and I will have to lay off at least one member of staff if he gets in and I am far from an exploitative employer. Getting quite sick of hearing Corbyn say that people like me are the scourge in our society when I've provided jobs to people. It's really as simple as that. Corbyn does not represent the view that I have of the economy and what I think should be done with it. I'm also pro-Brexit and free trade and want to get those policies through. We can genuinely lift African farmers out of extreme poverty by trading with them, there's currently an obscene tariff on their exports meaning they can't trade with us. We get cheaper food, they get good business and become wealthier (and will one day use our financial services), making their government elites less powerful etc etc. That's another argument I suppose. I have many reservations about Theresa May, but the Conservatives in my eyes are the only option at this election. Are conservatives pro-responsible spending though. Cuts in the police in an era where terrorism is the primary national threat (which protecting military spending from Austerity). Cuts in Prison budgets, despite a still exceptionally high prison population, resulting in a significant reduction in guards. Education cuts, despite the fact that education in this country seems to be entirely now about producing PR figures, and a crisis in teacher retention. The NHS is underfunded and in crisis etc. Whilst I don't agree with New Labour and the borrow and spend mentality, I don't think that Conservatives are any more responsible. Labour borrow money and spend irresponsibly to get votes. The conservatives, cut spending irresponsibly and use tax cuts to get votes. I just want a government that will raise revenue responsibly and spend on services responsibly.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| hedgehog50 Croydon 07 Jun 17 1.59pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Brexit had a majority of about 1.9% or so. The should hold a follow up referendum tomorrow as well - the Brexit vote would increase significantly as the electorate have seen that all the scaremongering predictions have not come to pass.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 2.00pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
68 percent in an ICM poll this year. The number of people who are too stupid to realise that the politicians are getting on with Brexit is.... 68%....
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Jun 17 2.01pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by hedgehog50
The should hold a follow up referendum tomorrow as well - the Brexit vote would increase significantly as the electorate have seen that all the scaremongering predictions have not come to pass. You do realise that Brexit still hasn't happened yet? I'm not anti-Brexit per se FYI - but I'm waiting for it to actually happen before passing judgement on its success or failure...
|
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 17 2.03pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by serial thriller
We can win mate. Things don't have to be as they are, in fact things are inevitably changing, and they can change for the better if good, honest people stand up and make themselves heard. It's happened before and it will happen again. Tomorrow could be historic, a genuine people's movement overthrowing a corrupt and malicious government. See this, in part, is part of the problem with British Democracy, its seen as winning, not being elected to represent the British People. No one wins an election. Not really, they get the job of representing their local constituency. The fact we and parties often don't see it this way is a major issue.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.