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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 tome  Inner Tantalus Time. 12 Jul 16 7.19pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
What can you possibly have a plan for in the context of the referendum result? You keep asking these daft questions knowing full well that they are meaningless in the real world. I don't think that's true. The leave vote was a vote against the EU, it wasn't for anything. That's why I think there's a case for at least an election, and possibly a referendum on the terms of leave. Leave means different things to different people and individuals will have different motives. As you'll have seen, the Leave campaign have said that leaving won't necessarily mean there is £350m a week for the NHS or anything else, and that migration might not fall at all. If that's the case, won't many who voted to leave feel cheated if we're part of the EAA (freedom of movement, access to single market, pay money to EU, no say)?
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Mr_Gristle  In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jul 16 7.25pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You have spent too much time on the BB*. But please don't let me stop you going back there ASAP. I think we can all agree that this is the worst thing that's been said on this thread :-) I'd rather leave the EU than go back to the BBS. Just. Hrolf, if you think it's naive to think that elections should be about reality and not concepts, then feel free to consign people like me who deal with facts, evidence and the resulting projections all day long to the realms of cloud cuckoo land. We have no idea and we're making it all up, clearly. Just like the Leave media cheerleaders. Edited by Mr_Gristle (12 Jul 2016 7.32pm)
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 16 7.32pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
I think we can all agree that this is the worst thing that's been said on this thread :-) I'd rather leave the EU than go back to the BBS. Just. Hrolf, if you think it's naive to think that elections should be about reality and not concepts, then feel free to consign people like me who deal with facts all day long to the realms of cloud cuckoo land. We have no idea and we're making it all up, clearly. Just like the Leave media cheerleaders. What are these facts that you allude to?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 16 7.34pm |
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Originally posted by tome
I don't think that's true. The leave vote was a vote against the EU, it wasn't for anything. That's why I think there's a case for at least an election, and possibly a referendum on the terms of leave. Leave means different things to different people and individuals will have different motives. As you'll have seen, the Leave campaign have said that leaving won't necessarily mean there is £350m a week for the NHS or anything else, and that migration might not fall at all. If that's the case, won't many who voted to leave feel cheated if we're part of the EAA (freedom of movement, access to single market, pay money to EU, no say)? Keep dreaming.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 16 7.35pm |
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Originally posted by the.universal
Question for the Brexiteers: what would define a good settlement in terms of our break from the EU? The 'have your cake and eat it' scenario to me would be; access to the EU market on the same terms as currently (for free); no freedom of movement for EU nationals in the UK; freedom of movement for UK citizens in other EU countries. Now, as it's a negotiation, clearly we'll not get all of those things. Which would people be willing to compromise on? A big cut in cheap imported Labour. Freedom of movement into the UK with a firm job offer or an actual further education place which is not open to abuse by agencies and other parasites. But no more Scousers. No more calls for a 2nd referendum. Only opposition style debate which I would like to think Hislop referred to on QT. If there was a 2nd ref we'd deny Scotland the vote. No more repetitive questions from nickgusset on why isn't there a plan/why don't we know what's going to happen/why isn't it happening now/are we nearly there yet/can we see the sea yet? What might we get? Probably more chance to apply the brakes on immigration if public services are stretched which means nothing really. More Scousers, more ref moaning, more questions from Nick et al asking the obvious. Edited by Rudi Hedman (12 Jul 2016 7.40pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Jul 16 7.37pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
I to agree with you cucking, the one thing I hated about the government at the time. Who is the only mainstream politician with getting services back under public control as part of their agenda?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 16 7.38pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Who is the only mainstream politician with getting services back under public control as part of their agenda? How is he going to pay for it?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 16 7.39pm |
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Originally posted by tome
I don't think that's true. The leave vote was a vote against the EU, it wasn't for anything. That's why I think there's a case for at least an election, and possibly a referendum on the terms of leave. Leave means different things to different people and individuals will have different motives. As you'll have seen, the Leave campaign have said that leaving won't necessarily mean there is £350m a week for the NHS or anything else, and that migration might not fall at all. If that's the case, won't many who voted to leave feel cheated if we're part of the EAA (freedom of movement, access to single market, pay money to EU, no say)? Nobody said there would be £350 million per week for the NHS. It said "Let's fund our NHS." Who has said immigration might not fall at all from the leave camp? I don't recall Boris, Gove, Leadsom saying it. May hasn't said it. Who has?
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| tome Inner Tantalus Time. 12 Jul 16 7.42pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Keep dreaming. So, you won't feel cheated if we have the EAA option? What would be the point in that?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 16 7.42pm |
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Originally posted by the.universal
Question for the Brexiteers: what would define a good settlement in terms of our break from the EU? The 'have your cake and eat it' scenario to me would be; access to the EU market on the same terms as currently (for free); no freedom of movement for EU nationals in the UK; freedom of movement for UK citizens in other EU countries. Now, as it's a negotiation, clearly we'll not get all of those things. Which would people be willing to compromise on? I.D cards for Scottish. Mass immigration of the world's poor and cheaper labour to Eastern Europe?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Jul 16 7.42pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
How is he going to pay for it? He has laid out plans for a sort of quantitative easing but for infrastructure and public services rather than bailing out the financial institutions that got us in this s*** in the first place.
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jul 16 7.43pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
What are these facts that you allude to? The facts I deal with? Commercial in Confidence mate ;-) I work in the Analytics and modelling team in a large Commercial Bank. We look backwards, look at now and look forward. Facts, evidence, projection. Beats the previous lives of Prison Service and teaching (although only just in the second instance.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| tome Inner Tantalus Time. 12 Jul 16 7.45pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Nobody said there would be £350 million per week for the NHS. It said "Let's fund our NHS." Who has said immigration might not fall at all from the leave camp? I don't recall Boris, Gove, Leadsom saying it. May hasn't said it. Who has? Farage has said the £350m was a mistake. I guess partly if we did get the EEA option then we'd still have to pay, just have no say. Daniel Hannan from the Leave campaign has said it might not have any effect on migration, as the prevailing view that the value of access to the free trade area is perecieved to be important that having no freedom of movement.
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| tome Inner Tantalus Time. 12 Jul 16 7.48pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
How is he going to pay for it? How are we going to pay for Brexit, that's what I'm curious to know. All these negotiations - with the EU and others - are going to be expesneive. Let alone the cost of finagling the law. And the government's already pushing an austerity ideology.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 16 7.53pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
The facts I deal with? Commercial in Confidence mate ;-) I work in the Analytics and modelling team in a large Commercial Bank. We look backwards, look at now and look forward. Facts, evidence, projection. Beats the previous lives of Prison Service and teaching (although only just in the second instance. So yon need concrete facts to make projections? So how have you used these facts in relation to something that has never happened before and therefore has no previous model to refer to and decide that our best long term option was to remain?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 12 Jul 16 7.54pm |
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Originally posted by tome
Farage has said the £350m was a mistake. I guess partly if we did get the EEA option then we'd still have to pay, just have no say. Daniel Hannan from the Leave campaign has said it might not have any effect on migration, as the prevailing view that the value of access to the free trade area is perecieved to be important that having no freedom of movement. If there was virtually no change then I would like to see a couple of things. 1. No requirement to pay for bailouts and other EU mess, whether publicly or secretly (Cameron & Osbourne) 2. Able to agree new trade deals outside of the EU with the growing markets that make up 55% and growing of our exports. 3. Looser ties with the EU that would make no. 2 more profitable and none of the cost of no. 1 which is there to keep the whole thing together and make mainly the Germans and then the French better off. Leave. It'll be finished with a decade or so with the insane levels of debt and unemployment in Southern Europe.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 16 7.59pm |
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Originally posted by tome
How are we going to pay for Brexit, that's what I'm curious to know. All these negotiations - with the EU and others - are going to be expesneive. Let alone the cost of finagling the law. And the government's already pushing an austerity ideology. Ask the chancellor. That's his job. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2016 8.12pm) Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2016 8.27pm)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Jul 16 8.06pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Oh a question answered with a question. hypocrite! So Corbyn would borrow more money then? Who are you talking to?
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jul 16 8.12pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So yon need concrete facts to make projections? So how have you used these facts in relation to something that has never happened before and therefore has no previous model to refer to and decide that our best long term option was to remain? I'd be interested to see projections that were made on anything other than recent historical facts and present day evidence. Hang on, I guess that's exactly what I did see from the Leave Camp ;-) It's not hard to plug in expected exchange rate change ranges and employment sentiment projections from Eu-facing companies in the event of either an In or Out vote. That's what empirical data and up to date client insight is for. The models spit out results based on different variables. If the models have got it wrong, then that's actually a really good thing for the country (and a pretty bad thing for the programmers).
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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