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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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Hoof Hearted 02 Oct 16 11.46am
Originally posted by Kermit8 You've been had, Hoof. He is 100%. You'll just have to take my word for it. Or not. Up to you. I don't think so... He is one of a handful of people on here to regularly PM me and give me support knowing that I have Parkinson's which his mother has too, so he knows what problems I face. Hardly the actions of a troll? You've both been pushing each others buttons fairly hard on here.... just accept it's a debate and you're both on the opposite end of the political spectrum. Agree to disagree.

Hoof Hearted 02 Oct 16 11.46am

Originally posted by Kermit8

You've been had, Hoof. He is 100%. You'll just have to take my word for it. Or not. Up to you.

I don't think so...

He is one of a handful of people on here to regularly PM me and give me support knowing that I have Parkinson's which his mother has too, so he knows what problems I face. Hardly the actions of a troll?

You've both been pushing each others buttons fairly hard on here.... just accept it's a debate and you're both on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Agree to disagree.

Hoof Hearted 02 Oct 16 11.51am
Originally posted by Part Time James I wonder how far I need to go back in this thread to find where everyone started bickering and stopped posting anything that proved any point they were trying to make. I might start at page 1 and hedge my bets. This is so true. Looking back I've posted some stuff better suited to the playground, but I'm sure I'm not alone or the worst! Maybe it should be renamed the bickering thread?

Hoof Hearted 02 Oct 16 11.51am

Originally posted by Part Time James

I wonder how far I need to go back in this thread to find where everyone started bickering and stopped posting anything that proved any point they were trying to make. I might start at page 1 and hedge my bets.

This is so true.

Looking back I've posted some stuff better suited to the playground, but I'm sure I'm not alone or the worst!

Maybe it should be renamed the bickering thread?

Stirlingsays 02 Oct 16 12.11pm
Originally posted by matt_himself Hungary holding a referendum on mandatory EU immigration rules: [Link] Does this feel like the whole of the EU is unwinding? If Hungary is to protect its national identity as....shock horror Hungarian, then a massive focus upon border control is central. In this sense I agree with their government. By stint of its location it is an obvious country for migrants. The only aspect that would concern me is the question of genuine refugees. Though if I were Hungary I would accept only children or secular or reformist Muslims. Anything else is asking for social cohesion problems. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Oct 16 12.11pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

Hungary holding a referendum on mandatory EU immigration rules:

[Link]

Does this feel like the whole of the EU is unwinding?

If Hungary is to protect its national identity as....shock horror Hungarian, then a massive focus upon border control is central. In this sense I agree with their government.

By stint of its location it is an obvious country for migrants.

The only aspect that would concern me is the question of genuine refugees.

Though if I were Hungary I would accept only children or secular or reformist Muslims. Anything else is asking for social cohesion problems.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 12.41pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'm just so happy that we are leaving. The reaction of some on the left though was shocking. Talk about only being interested in democracy if it suits you. All this, 'the left are nicer' crap that some believe only took a fair minded observation to correct. When you regard Ken Clark as on the left then you must be very right wing indeed

Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 12.41pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm just so happy that we are leaving.

The reaction of some on the left though was shocking. Talk about only being interested in democracy if it suits you.

All this, 'the left are nicer' crap that some believe only took a fair minded observation to correct.

When you regard Ken Clark as on the left then you must be very right wing indeed

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 12.42pm
Originally posted by Sedlescombe When you regard Ken Clark as on the left then you must be very right wing indeed Indeed

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 12.42pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

When you regard Ken Clark as on the left then you must be very right wing indeed

Indeed

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 12.44pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If Hungary is to protect its national identity as....shock horror Hungarian, then a massive focus upon border control is central. In this sense I agree with their government. By stint of its location it is an obvious country for migrants. The only aspect that would concern me is the question of genuine refugees. Though if I were Hungary I would accept only children or secular or reformist Muslims. Anything else is asking for social cohesion problems. A delightful bunch of people focused looking after "their own"by the sound of it: (2015): "The Council of Europe has published a report that strongly criticizes widespread racism in Hungary. The authors, from the Council's European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI), emphasize that not only is the radical nationalist Jobbik, the third-largest party in Hungary's parliament, to blame for the country's xenophobic atmosphere - the entire political spectrum shares in the guilt. The ECRI report praises recent Hungarian initiatives like the introduction of a hate crime unit for police and a new network for consultants to assist Hungary's Equal Treatment Authority, which pursues cases of discrimination and racism. However, the report's authors have found, none of this makes up for the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter."

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 12.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If Hungary is to protect its national identity as....shock horror Hungarian, then a massive focus upon border control is central. In this sense I agree with their government.

By stint of its location it is an obvious country for migrants.

The only aspect that would concern me is the question of genuine refugees.

Though if I were Hungary I would accept only children or secular or reformist Muslims. Anything else is asking for social cohesion problems.

A delightful bunch of people focused looking after "their own"by the sound of it:

(2015): "The Council of Europe has published a report that strongly criticizes widespread racism in Hungary. The authors, from the Council's European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI), emphasize that not only is the radical nationalist Jobbik, the third-largest party in Hungary's parliament, to blame for the country's xenophobic atmosphere - the entire political spectrum shares in the guilt.
The ECRI report praises recent Hungarian initiatives like the introduction of a hate crime unit for police and a new network for consultants to assist Hungary's Equal Treatment Authority, which pursues cases of discrimination and racism. However, the report's authors have found, none of this makes up for the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter."

Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 12.44pm
Originally posted by nickgusset From private eye How true. Except that Brexit voting Sunderland wake up to the fact that Nissan has put a freeze on investmenrt

Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 12.44pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

From private eye

How true.

Except that Brexit voting Sunderland wake up to the fact that Nissan has put a freeze on investmenrt

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 12.50pm
They usually say,"marry in haste,repent at leisure" but in this case, "divorce in haste,repent at leisure" might be somewhat more appropriate.

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 12.50pm

They usually say,"marry in haste,repent at leisure" but in this case, "divorce in haste,repent at leisure" might be somewhat more appropriate.

steeleye20 Croydon 02 Oct 16 1.01pm
Hungary has a land border with Serbia and Croatia and also doesn't like being used as a transit camp hence the fencing. However they are only being asked to take 1,294 people from the other 3 countries in their bloc.

steeleye20

Croydon 02 Oct 16 1.01pm

Hungary has a land border with Serbia and Croatia and also doesn't like being used as a transit camp hence the fencing.

However they are only being asked to take 1,294 people from the other 3 countries in their bloc.

Stirlingsays 02 Oct 16 1.46pm
Originally posted by Sedlescombe How true. Except that Brexit voting Sunderland wake up to the fact that Nissan has put a freeze on investmenrt Do you think perhaps that most people in Sunderland don't work for Nissan or indeed the chains connected to it? This was expected and warned about before the vote. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Oct 16 1.46pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

How true.

Except that Brexit voting Sunderland wake up to the fact that Nissan has put a freeze on investmenrt

Do you think perhaps that most people in Sunderland don't work for Nissan or indeed the chains connected to it?

This was expected and warned about before the vote.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 1.53pm
(2014) "Ever since the Japanese company selected Sunderland to play host to its European base in 1986 the manufacturer has developed state-of-the-art facilities, broken production records and attracted a lengthy supply chain of component manufacturers supporting jobs for more than 10,000 people, 7,300 of whom are employed by NMUK in the city. That’s a significant chunk of the 15,000 people employed in Sunderland’s automotive sector, according to Make It Sunderland’s most recent Automotive Report, with a further 13,000 in supply chain companies across the region. The plant now produces more cars than Fiat’s four plants in Italy, exporting to 92 overseas markets. ...And it’s a vast team effort. Behind each vehicle plant lies a complex and international supplier network. ...Today, the supply chain includes a whole raft of North East companies, some of whom are based on site, many more which clustered around the facility when it was constructed, and even more in surrounding areas whose businesses are rapidly expanding to meet Nissan contracts. Mick Thompson, office senior partner at KPMG in Newcastle, said: “Nissan’s Sunderland facility is at the forefront of the UK’s automotive industry and is a key driver behind tens of thousands of engineering and manufacturing jobs, not only in the North East, but throughout the country as a whole.2014)"

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 1.53pm

(2014) "Ever since the Japanese company selected Sunderland to play host to its European base in 1986 the manufacturer has developed state-of-the-art facilities, broken production records and attracted a lengthy supply chain of component manufacturers supporting jobs for more than 10,000 people, 7,300 of whom are employed by NMUK in the city.

That’s a significant chunk of the 15,000 people employed in Sunderland’s automotive sector, according to Make It Sunderland’s most recent Automotive Report, with a further 13,000 in supply chain companies across the region.

The plant now produces more cars than Fiat’s four plants in Italy, exporting to 92 overseas markets.

...And it’s a vast team effort. Behind each vehicle plant lies a complex and international supplier network.

...Today, the supply chain includes a whole raft of North East companies, some of whom are based on site, many more which clustered around the facility when it was constructed, and even more in surrounding areas whose businesses are rapidly expanding to meet Nissan contracts.

Mick Thompson, office senior partner at KPMG in Newcastle, said: “Nissan’s Sunderland facility is at the forefront of the UK’s automotive industry and is a key driver behind tens of thousands of engineering and manufacturing jobs, not only in the North East, but throughout the country as a whole.2014)"

Stirlingsays 02 Oct 16 1.55pm
Originally posted by legaleagle A delightful bunch of people focused looking after "their own"by the sound of it: (2015): "The Council of Europe has published a report that strongly criticizes widespread racism in Hungary. The authors, from the Council's European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI), emphasize that not only is the radical nationalist Jobbik, the third-largest party in Hungary's parliament, to blame for the country's xenophobic atmosphere - the entire political spectrum shares in the guilt. The ECRI report praises recent Hungarian initiatives like the introduction of a hate crime unit for police and a new network for consultants to assist Hungary's Equal Treatment Authority, which pursues cases of discrimination and racism. However, the report's authors have found, none of this makes up for the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter." Mmmmm....Maybe they don't want their national identity being mucked around with. Of course to lefties and 'progressives/regressives' this is racism and bigotry and all the other pointless labels that lefties use. Thankfully their usage is losing power now as increasingly more people react against these self righteous bullies. Politicians and...dare I say it...people like your good self like to state how immigration improves life...the 'benefits of immigration'. Well, many countries look at these 'benefits' and they simply don't want it. They have a perfect right to do this. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Oct 16 1.55pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

A delightful bunch of people focused looking after "their own"by the sound of it:

Mmmmm....Maybe they don't want their national identity being mucked around with. Of course to lefties and 'progressives/regressives' this is racism and bigotry and all the other pointless labels that lefties use. Thankfully their usage is losing power now as increasingly more people react against these self righteous bullies.

Politicians and...dare I say it...people like your good self like to state how immigration improves life...the 'benefits of immigration'.

Well, many countries look at these 'benefits' and they simply don't want it.

They have a perfect right to do this.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 3.13pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Do you think perhaps that most people in Sunderland don't work for Nissan or indeed the chains connected to it? This was expected and warned about before the vote. In as much as people warned this is sort of thing would happen before the vote and now it has then I agree with you.

Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 3.13pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Do you think perhaps that most people in Sunderland don't work for Nissan or indeed the chains connected to it?

This was expected and warned about before the vote.

In as much as people warned this is sort of thing would happen before the vote and now it has then I agree with you.

blackpalacefan 02 Oct 16 3.18pm
Brexit by the end of March then. Hold on tight!

blackpalacefan

02 Oct 16 3.18pm

Brexit by the end of March then. Hold on tight!

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 3.26pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Mmmmm....Maybe they don't want their national identity being mucked around with Of course to lefties and 'progressives/regressives' this is racism and bigotry and all the other pointless labels that lefties use. Thankfully their usage is losing power now as increasingly more people react against these self righteous bullies. Politicians and...dare I say it...people like your good self like to state how immigration improves life...the 'benefits of immigration'. Well, many countries look at these 'benefits' and they simply don't want it. They have a perfect right to do this. Mmmmmm,maybe you think people have a perfect right to look after "their own" by discriminating against their fellow citizens and/or legal residents who might be of a different race/ethnicity,sexual orientation or religion to them...viz"the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter." Perfect right...or a perfect (example of extreme) right (wing sh*t)? Edited by legaleagle (02 Oct 2016 3.32pm)

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 3.26pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Mmmmm....Maybe they don't want their national identity being mucked around with

Of course to lefties and 'progressives/regressives' this is racism and bigotry and all the other pointless labels that lefties use. Thankfully their usage is losing power now as increasingly more people react against these self righteous bullies.

Politicians and...dare I say it...people like your good self like to state how immigration improves life...the 'benefits of immigration'.

Well, many countries look at these 'benefits' and they simply don't want it.

They have a perfect right to do this.

Mmmmmm,maybe you think people have a perfect right to look after "their own" by discriminating against their fellow citizens and/or legal residents who might be of a different race/ethnicity,sexual orientation or religion to them...viz"the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter."

Perfect right...or a perfect (example of extreme) right (wing sh*t)?

Edited by legaleagle (02 Oct 2016 3.32pm)

Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 3.32pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Mmmmm....Maybe they don't want their national identity being mucked around with. Of course to lefties and 'progressives/regressives' this is racism and bigotry and all the other pointless labels that lefties use. Thankfully their usage is losing power now as increasingly more people react against these self righteous bullies. Politicians and...dare I say it...people like your good self like to state how immigration improves life...the 'benefits of immigration'. Well, many countries look at these 'benefits' and they simply don't want it. They have a perfect right to do this. What do you mean by national identity? When is the point of perfection to which you want to return to? We have a royal family who have been speaking French for longer they have been speaking English; where does that fit into your idea of national identity. A survey in 2001 reported that 25% of the UK population have some sort if Irish connection so given that our population has been in a state of flux since these lands became an island, please describe which of our identities you think is the "original" one. As far as I can see the one consistent aspect of our collective identity is that it has constantly changed. Its entirely fair to make the arguments that some do about levels of immigration - and more importantly the failure of governments to respond to demographic changes with services in those places. Its also possible to dislike the changes in population and pine for a time when people were more like "me" - and not to be racist in doing so. But don't confuse that with some mythical sense of national identity that didn't exist in the first place

Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 02 Oct 16 3.32pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Mmmmm....Maybe they don't want their national identity being mucked around with. Of course to lefties and 'progressives/regressives' this is racism and bigotry and all the other pointless labels that lefties use. Thankfully their usage is losing power now as increasingly more people react against these self righteous bullies.

Politicians and...dare I say it...people like your good self like to state how immigration improves life...the 'benefits of immigration'.

Well, many countries look at these 'benefits' and they simply don't want it.

They have a perfect right to do this.

What do you mean by national identity?

When is the point of perfection to which you want to return to?

We have a royal family who have been speaking French for longer they have been speaking English; where does that fit into your idea of national identity.

A survey in 2001 reported that 25% of the UK population have some sort if Irish connection so given that our population has been in a state of flux since these lands became an island, please describe which of our identities you think is the "original" one. As far as I can see the one consistent aspect of our collective identity is that it has constantly changed.

Its entirely fair to make the arguments that some do about levels of immigration - and more importantly the failure of governments to respond to demographic changes with services in those places. Its also possible to dislike the changes in population and pine for a time when people were more like "me" - and not to be racist in doing so. But don't confuse that with some mythical sense of national identity that didn't exist in the first place

Kermit8 Hevon 02 Oct 16 3.33pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted I don't think so... He is one of a handful of people on here to regularly PM me and give me support knowing that I have Parkinson's which his mother has too, so he knows what problems I face. Hardly the actions of a troll? You've both been pushing each others buttons fairly hard on here.... just accept it's a debate and you're both on the opposite end of the political spectrum. Agree to disagree. Fair enough. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 02 Oct 16 3.33pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I don't think so...

You've both been pushing each others buttons fairly hard on here.... just accept it's a debate and you're both on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 3.37pm
Originally posted by Sedlescombe What do you mean by national identity? When is the point of perfection to which you want to return to? We have a royal family who have been speaking French for longer they have been speaking English; where does that fit into your idea of national identity. A survey in 2001 reported that 25% of the UK population have some sort if Irish connection so given that our population has been in a state of flux since these lands became an island, please describe which of our identities you think is the "original" one. As far as I can see the one consistent aspect of our collective identity is that it has constantly changed. Its entirely fair to make the arguments that some do about levels of immigration - and more importantly the failure of governments to respond to demographic changes with services in those places. Its also possible to dislike the changes in population and pine for a time when people were more like "me" - and not to be racist in doing so. But don't confuse that with some mythical sense of national identity that didn't exist in the first place And don't confuse it with sh*t like right wing people in Hungary looking after "their own" where,as the Council of Europe reported,it manifests as:"the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter."

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 3.37pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

What do you mean by national identity?

When is the point of perfection to which you want to return to?

We have a royal family who have been speaking French for longer they have been speaking English; where does that fit into your idea of national identity.

And don't confuse it with sh*t like right wing people in Hungary looking after "their own" where,as the Council of Europe reported,it manifests as:"the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter."

Stirlingsays 02 Oct 16 3.39pm
Originally posted by legaleagle Mmmmmm,maybe you think people have a perfect right to look after "their own" by discriminating against their fellow citizens and/or legal residents who might be of a different race/ethnicity or religion to them...viz"the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter." Perfect right...or a perfect example of extreme right wing sh*t? Edited by legaleagle (02 Oct 2016 3.28pm) I'm not referring to 'fellow citizens'. Why are you expanding the point out? In terms of their own citizens living among them....that is a matter for the country's own law courts. This is about a country's right to decide who comes into it or not. This is most definitely a case of discriminating against foreigners it doesn't want. Each country has the perfect right to do so and your views are a minority. More and more European countries are pushing back against the EU in this matter. You can label it what you want. Thankfully those labels are losing their power the more they are used. Maybe you should move to Germany where one million migrants 'benefited' the country.....God knows where the increase in crime and rape came from....Who knows. You would fit right in....or maybe not as the tide is rapidly turning against Merkel's madness. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Oct 2016 3.40pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Oct 16 3.39pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

Mmmmmm,maybe you think people have a perfect right to look after "their own" by discriminating against their fellow citizens and/or legal residents who might be of a different race/ethnicity or religion to them...viz"the hatred and vitriol that Jews, homosexuals, Roma, migrants and other groups encounter."

Perfect right...or a perfect example of extreme right wing sh*t?

Edited by legaleagle (02 Oct 2016 3.28pm)

I'm not referring to 'fellow citizens'. Why are you expanding the point out?

In terms of their own citizens living among them....that is a matter for the country's own law courts.

This is about a country's right to decide who comes into it or not. This is most definitely a case of discriminating against foreigners it doesn't want.

Each country has the perfect right to do so and your views are a minority. More and more European countries are pushing back against the EU in this matter.

You can label it what you want. Thankfully those labels are losing their power the more they are used.

Maybe you should move to Germany where one million migrants 'benefited' the country.....God knows where the increase in crime and rape came from....Who knows.

You would fit right in....or maybe not as the tide is rapidly turning against Merkel's madness.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Oct 2016 3.40pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

legaleagle 02 Oct 16 3.49pm
Go back to my post in question.Its about the reality of the hatred in Hungary towards fellow citizen Roma,Jews,gay people.....as well as migrants. Then read your response.Perfect right or perfect example of extreme right wing sh*t? You'd have fitted in perfectly in the NF in the 1970's or Mosley in the 1930's with the kind of ideology you espouse today. As Mosley put it in answer to the question, what alterations, if any, will you make in the laws governing the immigration of alien races into Great Britain ? "All immigration will be stopped. Britain for the British, is our motto, and all of Britain is required for the British. ...It should not be necessary to secure British racial purity by act of law. It should only be necessary by education and propaganda to teach the British what racial mixtures are bad. If a Briton understands that some action is bad for his race he will not do it. With the British this is a matter for the teacher rather than the legislator, but if legislation was ever necessary to preserve the race, Fascism would not hesitate to introduce it." Edited by legaleagle (02 Oct 2016 3.54pm)

legaleagle

02 Oct 16 3.49pm

Go back to my post in question.Its about the reality of the hatred in Hungary towards fellow citizen Roma,Jews,gay people.....as well as migrants.

Then read your response.Perfect right or perfect example of extreme right wing sh*t?

You'd have fitted in perfectly in the NF in the 1970's or Mosley in the 1930's with the kind of ideology you espouse today.

As Mosley put it in answer to the question, what alterations, if any, will you make in the laws governing the immigration of alien races into Great Britain ?

"All immigration will be stopped. Britain for the British, is our motto, and all of Britain is required for the British.

...It should not be necessary to secure British racial purity by act of law. It should only be necessary by education and propaganda to teach the British what racial mixtures are bad. If a Briton understands that some action is bad for his race he will not do it. With the British this is a matter for the teacher rather than the legislator, but if legislation was ever necessary to preserve the race, Fascism would not hesitate to introduce it."

Edited by legaleagle (02 Oct 2016 3.54pm)

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