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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Jun 17 8.16pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle You'd rather their pay was unfair? What is unfair pay? That is a silly, subjective, politically loaded phrase. #Labourminions

Hrolf The Ganger

28 Jun 17 8.16pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You'd rather their pay was unfair?

What is unfair pay?
That is a silly, subjective, politically loaded phrase.

#Labourminions

elgrande bedford 28 Jun 17 9.01pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Public sector pay down way below private increases since 2010. What's wrong with a fair pay rise? Edited by CambridgeEagle (28 Jun 2017 7.42pm) Really,well since I gave up cab driving I have worked driving a lorry for the past 7 years....i have not had one increase in pay always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 28 Jun 17 9.01pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Public sector pay down way below private increases since 2010. What's wrong with a fair pay rise?

Edited by CambridgeEagle (28 Jun 2017 7.42pm)

Really,well since I gave up cab driving I have worked driving a lorry for the past 7 years....i have not had one increase in pay

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 9.08pm
Originally posted by elgrande Really,well since I gave up cab driving I have worked driving a lorry for the past 7 years....i have not had one increase in pay Based on national stats yes really. But you're not wrong that this government's actions have led to declining real wages across the board not just in the public sector. You should be angry about that.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 28 Jun 17 9.08pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Really,well since I gave up cab driving I have worked driving a lorry for the past 7 years....i have not had one increase in pay

Based on national stats yes really. But you're not wrong that this government's actions have led to declining real wages across the board not just in the public sector. You should be angry about that.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 9.09pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What is unfair pay? That is a silly, subjective, politically loaded phrase. #Labourminions So yes then. You would rather it was unfair.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 28 Jun 17 9.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What is unfair pay?
That is a silly, subjective, politically loaded phrase.

#Labourminions

So yes then. You would rather it was unfair.

elgrande bedford 28 Jun 17 9.14pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Based on national stats yes really. But you're not wrong that this government's actions have led to declining real wages across the board not just in the public sector. You should be angry about that. I am not particularly angry no,I do think nurses,and emergency services deserve more pay of course I do. But big business keeps wages down, because they know they have an endless supply of cheap labour. The emergency service an the health workers are the ones i feel sorry for.they earn their pay. Doesn't mean all public sector workers should get more. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 28 Jun 17 9.14pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I am not particularly angry no,I do think nurses,and emergency services deserve more pay of course I do.
But big business keeps wages down, because they know they have an endless supply of cheap labour.
The emergency service an the health workers are the ones i feel sorry for.they earn their pay.

Doesn't mean all public sector workers should get more.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Hrolf The Ganger 28 Jun 17 9.21pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle So yes then. You would rather it was unfair. Don't embarrass yourself. What is unfair pay? Do tell, genius?

Hrolf The Ganger

28 Jun 17 9.21pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

So yes then. You would rather it was unfair.

Don't embarrass yourself.

What is unfair pay? Do tell, genius?

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 9.52pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Don't embarrass yourself. What is unfair pay? Do tell, genius? Pay below that deemed commensurate with their jobs and costs of living as determined by independent public sector pay body. Which the current policy is and consistently had been.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 28 Jun 17 9.52pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Don't embarrass yourself.

What is unfair pay? Do tell, genius?

Pay below that deemed commensurate with their jobs and costs of living as determined by independent public sector pay body. Which the current policy is and consistently had been.

Hrolf The Ganger 28 Jun 17 10.04pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Pay below that deemed commensurate with their jobs and costs of living as determined by independent public sector pay body. Which the current policy is and consistently had been. And you think that everyone else thinks their pay is 'fair' do you? You Labour minions on here are becoming really tedious.

Hrolf The Ganger

28 Jun 17 10.04pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Pay below that deemed commensurate with their jobs and costs of living as determined by independent public sector pay body. Which the current policy is and consistently had been.

And you think that everyone else thinks their pay is 'fair' do you?

You Labour minions on here are becoming really tedious.

steeleye20 Croydon 28 Jun 17 10.15pm
Just give them their raise. Simples. Why shouldn't everybody get a raise now and then. Not having their wage increases has done no good to the economy anyway. For MP's to turn them down you have to be kidding. Nobody has any time for them anymore.

steeleye20

Croydon 28 Jun 17 10.15pm

Just give them their raise. Simples.

Why shouldn't everybody get a raise now and then.

Not having their wage increases has done no good to the economy anyway.

For MP's to turn them down you have to be kidding.

Nobody has any time for them anymore.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 10.27pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And you think that everyone else thinks their pay is 'fair' do you? You Labour minions on here are becoming really tedious. I would argue that if any employer had imposed an arbitrary pay cap on its employees for the last 7 years for simply ideological reasons it would be unfair yes. You'd argue for inflicting the population with ebola for not other reason than labour were against it and the Tories were for it. If the government had backed the amendment I'd be applauding them and I hope you would too.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 28 Jun 17 10.27pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And you think that everyone else thinks their pay is 'fair' do you?

You Labour minions on here are becoming really tedious.

I would argue that if any employer had imposed an arbitrary pay cap on its employees for the last 7 years for simply ideological reasons it would be unfair yes.

You'd argue for inflicting the population with ebola for not other reason than labour were against it and the Tories were for it.

If the government had backed the amendment I'd be applauding them and I hope you would too.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 28 Jun 17 11.03pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Just give them their raise. Simples. Why shouldn't everybody get a raise now and then. Not having their wage increases has done no good to the economy anyway. For MP's to turn them down you have to be kidding. Nobody has any time for them anymore. MPs have had increases from £65k in 2011 to £76k this year. No pay cap for them! Good on 'em. Plus they can still benefit from lucrative second jobs etc!

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 28 Jun 17 11.03pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Just give them their raise. Simples.

Why shouldn't everybody get a raise now and then.

Not having their wage increases has done no good to the economy anyway.

For MP's to turn them down you have to be kidding.

Nobody has any time for them anymore.

MPs have had increases from £65k in 2011 to £76k this year. No pay cap for them! Good on 'em. Plus they can still benefit from lucrative second jobs etc!

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 28 Jun 17 11.13pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger And you think that everyone else thinks their pay is 'fair' do you? You Labour minions on here are becoming really tedious. I'm assuming you've retired early and aren't doing too bad. Fair play and good luck to you. I sometimes wonder if you ever put yourself in the shoes of those that are struggling in society through no fault of their own and think about what day to day life is like for them.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 28 Jun 17 11.13pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And you think that everyone else thinks their pay is 'fair' do you?

You Labour minions on here are becoming really tedious.

I'm assuming you've retired early and aren't doing too bad. Fair play and good luck to you.

I sometimes wonder if you ever put yourself in the shoes of those that are struggling in society through no fault of their own and think about what day to day life is like for them.

Stirlingsays 28 Jun 17 11.21pm
This is a tricky area because you have inflation which is bad enough right now. If you raise public sector pay across the board then you also raise inflation and it's a spiral upwards. However we had MPs raising their own pay....even if they created a bulls*** 'independent' panel to report on it....Who decided who was on that panel? How are they protected from lobbying? Or indeed known to be independent? And why aren't other public bodies getting 'independent panels'. As you can probably guess I very suspicious of the 'independent' panel stuff and the rationalizations used to justify one sector getting a raise and not another. It would be far better if raises came with productivity increases but I don't think that this argument works for some sectors....for example I know it doesn't in education because I know that statistics and outcomes are manipulated in the first place as it is. I'm not arrogant enough to say I really know what the answer is on this one. I'm suspicious of those who say they do. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jun 2017 11.22pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

28 Jun 17 11.21pm

This is a tricky area because you have inflation which is bad enough right now. If you raise public sector pay across the board then you also raise inflation and it's a spiral upwards.

However we had MPs raising their own pay....even if they created a bulls*** 'independent' panel to report on it....Who decided who was on that panel? How are they protected from lobbying? Or indeed known to be independent? And why aren't other public bodies getting 'independent panels'.

As you can probably guess I very suspicious of the 'independent' panel stuff and the rationalizations used to justify one sector getting a raise and not another.

It would be far better if raises came with productivity increases but I don't think that this argument works for some sectors....for example I know it doesn't in education because I know that statistics and outcomes are manipulated in the first place as it is.

I'm not arrogant enough to say I really know what the answer is on this one. I'm suspicious of those who say they do.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Jun 2017 11.22pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 8.48am
Originally posted by nickgusset I'm assuming you've retired early and aren't doing too bad. Fair play and good luck to you. I sometimes wonder if you ever put yourself in the shoes of those that are struggling in society through no fault of their own and think about what day to day life is like for them. Who is struggling exactly? What are those public sector workers earning right now?

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jun 17 8.48am

Originally posted by nickgusset

I'm assuming you've retired early and aren't doing too bad. Fair play and good luck to you.

I sometimes wonder if you ever put yourself in the shoes of those that are struggling in society through no fault of their own and think about what day to day life is like for them.

Who is struggling exactly? What are those public sector workers earning right now?

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 8.50am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I would argue that if any employer had imposed an arbitrary pay cap on its employees for the last 7 years for simply ideological reasons it would be unfair yes. You'd argue for inflicting the population with ebola for not other reason than labour were against it and the Tories were for it. If the government had backed the amendment I'd be applauding them and I hope you would too. Ideological reasons? Economic reasons more likely.

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jun 17 8.50am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I would argue that if any employer had imposed an arbitrary pay cap on its employees for the last 7 years for simply ideological reasons it would be unfair yes.

You'd argue for inflicting the population with ebola for not other reason than labour were against it and the Tories were for it.

If the government had backed the amendment I'd be applauding them and I hope you would too.

Ideological reasons? Economic reasons more likely.

DanH SW2 29 Jun 17 8.56am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Who is struggling exactly? What are those public sector workers earning right now? My other half is a primary school teacher. She commutes over an hour to school for a half 7 am start and usually gets home about half 7 in the evening. All for less than £30k a year. She has to put in a damn sight more hours than me and earns considerably less. It's only through being a relationship she can afford to do what she could do; being single would be impossible (the only reason she's still with me obvs). The fact that she's now been consigned to an annual 1% pay rise set against ever increasing inflation really is disgraceful. Teachers, doctors, nurses, policeman, fireman etc. do what they do for the love, not the money. It's a vocation and they genuinely want to help people and better others' lives. Something that is foreign to a lot of people on here.

DanH

SW2 29 Jun 17 8.56am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Who is struggling exactly? What are those public sector workers earning right now?

My other half is a primary school teacher. She commutes over an hour to school for a half 7 am start and usually gets home about half 7 in the evening. All for less than £30k a year. She has to put in a damn sight more hours than me and earns considerably less. It's only through being a relationship she can afford to do what she could do; being single would be impossible (the only reason she's still with me obvs).

The fact that she's now been consigned to an annual 1% pay rise set against ever increasing inflation really is disgraceful.

Teachers, doctors, nurses, policeman, fireman etc. do what they do for the love, not the money. It's a vocation and they genuinely want to help people and better others' lives. Something that is foreign to a lot of people on here.

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 9.02am
Originally posted by DanH My other half is a primary school teacher. She commutes over an hour to school for a half 7 am start and usually gets home about half 7 in the evening. All for less than £30k a year. She has to put in a damn sight more hours than me and earns considerably less. It's only through being a relationship she can afford to do what she could do; being single would be impossible (the only reason she's still with me obvs). The fact that she's now been consigned to an annual 1% pay rise set against ever increasing inflation really is disgraceful. Teachers, doctors, nurses, policeman, fireman etc. do what they do for the love, not the money. It's a vocation and they genuinely want to help people and better others' lives. Something that is foreign to a lot of people on here. In which case what they earn should be secondary to them. I have found that most people do a job because they can't do anything else or they can't find a better job. Otherwise we'd all be earning a fortune.

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jun 17 9.02am

Originally posted by DanH

The fact that she's now been consigned to an annual 1% pay rise set against ever increasing inflation really is disgraceful.

Teachers, doctors, nurses, policeman, fireman etc. do what they do for the love, not the money. It's a vocation and they genuinely want to help people and better others' lives. Something that is foreign to a lot of people on here.

In which case what they earn should be secondary to them.
I have found that most people do a job because they can't do anything else or they can't find a better job. Otherwise we'd all be earning a fortune.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.03am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Ideological reasons? Economic reasons more likely. No. Austerity has been an ideological choice. It's very poor economics. It's damaging. [Link] One of many many many articles and studies on the matter.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 29 Jun 17 9.03am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Ideological reasons? Economic reasons more likely.

No. Austerity has been an ideological choice. It's very poor economics. It's damaging.

[Link]

One of many many many articles and studies on the matter.

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 9.06am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle No. Austerity has been an ideological choice. It's very poor economics. It's damaging. [Link] One of many many many articles and studies on the matter. So you have told us 1000 times. It wouldn't be because you are a Labour activist by any chance?

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jun 17 9.06am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

No. Austerity has been an ideological choice. It's very poor economics. It's damaging.

[Link]

One of many many many articles and studies on the matter.

So you have told us 1000 times.

It wouldn't be because you are a Labour activist by any chance?

DanH SW2 29 Jun 17 9.07am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger In which case what they earn should be secondary to them. I have found that most people do a job because they can't do anything else or they can't find a better job. Otherwise we'd all be earning a fortune. It is. But what they do is also essential to society. We literally couldn't function as a society without them. They are paid far less than what they are worth.

DanH

SW2 29 Jun 17 9.07am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It is. But what they do is also essential to society. We literally couldn't function as a society without them. They are paid far less than what they are worth.

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