General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 2.24pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You really are fixated by manifestos. You surely realise that in modern politics they are not worth spit. I reckon Labour's fully costed Manifesto will be.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 2.24pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You really are fixated by manifestos. You surely realise that in modern politics they are not worth spit.

I reckon Labour's fully costed Manifesto will be.

Hrolf The Ganger 21 Apr 17 2.32pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I reckon Labour's fully costed Manifesto will be. Sucker.

Hrolf The Ganger

21 Apr 17 2.32pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I reckon Labour's fully costed Manifesto will be.

Sucker.

steeleye20 Croydon 21 Apr 17 2.33pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Obviously Central Europe has more people living in rented accommodation with legal controls. Getting a mortgage in France is nearly impossible. You might laugh at this but I do think they're less obsessed in France with home interior improvements. Not having those costs or aspirational targets saves them all a load of money. How confident can you be that's a good reliable model for any of us to live into retirement over here? Why is there a massive gap between your comment and the quote thing. Do you lean on the space bar? I share that point of view from France that we are obsessed with property and the material life (actually I think it is imprisoning). I did notice that the landlord/tenant agreement was strictly observed people quite happy to rent. I think that retirement income is the next target probably in the Autumn statement but what retirement are we talking about as it looks like we work all our lives and drop dead the Chancellors' dream. I sleep on the space bar very occasionally a beep goes off and its a Palace goal. When Murray was playing I would bang the screen in frustration then go for a pee. When I returned he had scored in the 70th and 71st minutes.

steeleye20

Croydon 21 Apr 17 2.33pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Obviously Central Europe has more people living in rented accommodation with legal controls. Getting a mortgage in France is nearly impossible. You might laugh at this but I do think they're less obsessed in France with home interior improvements. Not having those costs or aspirational targets saves them all a load of money. How confident can you be that's a good reliable model for any of us to live into retirement over here?

Why is there a massive gap between your comment and the quote thing. Do you lean on the space bar?

I share that point of view from France that we are obsessed with property and the material life (actually I think it is imprisoning).

I did notice that the landlord/tenant agreement was strictly observed people quite happy to rent.

I think that retirement income is the next target probably in the Autumn statement but what retirement are we talking about as it looks like we work all our lives and drop dead the Chancellors' dream.

I sleep on the space bar very occasionally a beep goes off and its a Palace goal.

When Murray was playing I would bang the screen in frustration then go for a pee. When I returned he had scored in the 70th and 71st minutes.

davenotamonkey 21 Apr 17 2.35pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Buying property isn't inward investment! It's just turning a UK income producing asset into cash, which has no income return. The income producing asset then sends all its income abroad. The cash is then used to pay down debt by and large to reduce leverage on wider portfolios to reduce risk due to heightened economic risks brought about by Brexit. Quote from today's Property Weekly: Chinese property giant Country Garden has set its sights on building tens of thousands of homes in London as it looks to take advantage of the “golden opportunity” political uncertainty provides for overseas capital, Property Week can reveal. Second top story is South Korea buying a Sainsbury's distributions centre in the Midlands for £100m. 4th story is Saudis buying an office in Maidenhead for £35m. So rather than build homes ourself we buy them from China. We need the homes that's true enough, but Brexit has directly impacted our own ability to deliver them and instead we have to pay profits to the Chinese to do it! On IMF forecasts: “The 0.9 percentage point upward revision to the 2017 forecast and the 0.2 percentage point downward revision to the 2018 forecast reflect the stronger-than-expected performance of the UK economy since the June Brexit vote, which points to a more gradual materialisation than previously anticipated of the negative effects of the United Kingdom’s decision to leave the European Union,” the IMF said. “Though highly uncertain, medium-term growth prospects have also diminished in the aftermath of the Brexit vote because of the expected increase in barriers to trade and migration, as well as a potential downsizing of the financial services sector amid possible barriers to cross-border financial activity.” I've already pointed out how misleading annual GDP growth and unemployment figures are. So that would be a "no" then. All doom and gloom in your little echo chamber. Can't wait to see you proven wrong. Brexit is, and will be, the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. But do carry on howling at the moon.

davenotamonkey

21 Apr 17 2.35pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Buying property isn't inward investment! It's just turning a UK income producing asset into cash, which has no income return. The income producing asset then sends all its income abroad.

The cash is then used to pay down debt by and large to reduce leverage on wider portfolios to reduce risk due to heightened economic risks brought about by Brexit.

Quote from today's Property Weekly: Chinese property giant Country Garden has set its sights on building tens of thousands of homes in London as it looks to take advantage of the “golden opportunity” political uncertainty provides for overseas capital, Property Week can reveal. Second top story is South Korea buying a Sainsbury's distributions centre in the Midlands for £100m. 4th story is Saudis buying an office in Maidenhead for £35m.

So rather than build homes ourself we buy them from China. We need the homes that's true enough, but Brexit has directly impacted our own ability to deliver them and instead we have to pay profits to the Chinese to do it!

On IMF forecasts: “The 0.9 percentage point upward revision to the 2017 forecast and the 0.2 percentage point downward revision to the 2018 forecast reflect the stronger-than-expected performance of the UK economy since the June Brexit vote, which points to a more gradual materialisation than previously anticipated of the negative effects of the United Kingdom’s decision to leave the European Union,” the IMF said. “Though highly uncertain, medium-term growth prospects have also diminished in the aftermath of the Brexit vote because of the expected increase in barriers to trade and migration, as well as a potential downsizing of the financial services sector amid possible barriers to cross-border financial activity.”

I've already pointed out how misleading annual GDP growth and unemployment figures are.

So that would be a "no" then. All doom and gloom in your little echo chamber.

Can't wait to see you proven wrong. Brexit is, and will be, the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. But do carry on howling at the moon.

steeleye20 Croydon 21 Apr 17 2.37pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Sucker. The problem with costing everything is that when you assume office the situation might be very different.

steeleye20

Croydon 21 Apr 17 2.37pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Sucker.

The problem with costing everything is that when you assume office the situation might be very different.

steeleye20 Croydon 21 Apr 17 2.41pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey So that would be a "no" then. All doom and gloom in your little echo chamber. Can't wait to see you proven wrong. Brexit is, and will be, the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. But do carry on howling at the moon. Why do you want another brexit campaign? It is not going to be resolved in the UK anyway. So many other fundamental issues in this election.

steeleye20

Croydon 21 Apr 17 2.41pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

So that would be a "no" then. All doom and gloom in your little echo chamber.

Can't wait to see you proven wrong. Brexit is, and will be, the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. But do carry on howling at the moon.

Why do you want another brexit campaign? It is not going to be resolved in the UK anyway.

So many other fundamental issues in this election.

Hrolf The Ganger 21 Apr 17 2.41pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The problem with costing everything is that when you assume office the situation might be very different. Nick knows that all to well but he has Jeremy Corbyn's likeness tattooed on his arse.

Hrolf The Ganger

21 Apr 17 2.41pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The problem with costing everything is that when you assume office the situation might be very different.

Nick knows that all to well but he has Jeremy Corbyn's likeness tattooed on his arse.

Hrolf The Ganger 21 Apr 17 2.43pm
Originally posted by nickgusset How much has wealth inequality grown in this country since 2010? Do you mean taking control of the benefits system?

Hrolf The Ganger

21 Apr 17 2.43pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

How much has wealth inequality grown in this country since 2010?

Do you mean taking control of the benefits system?

jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Apr 17 2.49pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Because an economy that has a surplus from exploitation or indeed by any other means has far more money to spend on its social programmes. I would have thought that was obvious. Indeed, but the question really is why isn't it, because those who benefit from the system, find that exploitation is beneficial to them - and its easier to exploit people if they're dependent on you, and in fear of their livehoods and economic stability. The problems of morality, is that people are not moral, part of the role of state has to be to regulate and control, in order to limit the extent of exploitation, and ensure the well being of all of its people - not just those who they identify with. The problem with capitalism is the same as with socialism, you can't rely on people to make the moral decision to 'do right' over their own self benefit and interest. That has to be what the state is there for. Edited by jamiemartin721 (21 Apr 2017 2.49pm) "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 21 Apr 17 2.49pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Because an economy that has a surplus from exploitation or indeed by any other means has far more money to spend on its social programmes.

I would have thought that was obvious.

Indeed, but the question really is why isn't it, because those who benefit from the system, find that exploitation is beneficial to them - and its easier to exploit people if they're dependent on you, and in fear of their livehoods and economic stability.

The problems of morality, is that people are not moral, part of the role of state has to be to regulate and control, in order to limit the extent of exploitation, and ensure the well being of all of its people - not just those who they identify with.

The problem with capitalism is the same as with socialism, you can't rely on people to make the moral decision to 'do right' over their own self benefit and interest.

That has to be what the state is there for.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (21 Apr 2017 2.49pm)

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

davenotamonkey 21 Apr 17 2.49pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What does that mean? I can see that all parties try not to offend their traditional support but are you suggesting that the Tories like to keep 'poor' people poor for other reasons? I think you mean Labour there. Coming in for nearly a century of Labour dominance in the north, and look at the state of it. Labour need and thrive on a poverty-bound electorate - how else will they sell their fabled socialist utopia. Perhaps with promotional videos from their comrades in Venezuela?

davenotamonkey

21 Apr 17 2.49pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What does that mean?
I can see that all parties try not to offend their traditional support but are you suggesting that the Tories like to keep 'poor' people poor for other reasons?

I think you mean Labour there. Coming in for nearly a century of Labour dominance in the north, and look at the state of it. Labour need and thrive on a poverty-bound electorate - how else will they sell their fabled socialist utopia. Perhaps with promotional videos from their comrades in Venezuela?

Hrolf The Ganger 21 Apr 17 2.53pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey I think you mean Labour there. Coming in for nearly a century of Labour dominance in the north, and look at the state of it. Labour need and thrive on a poverty-bound electorate - how else will they sell their fabled socialist utopia. Perhaps with promotional videos from their comrades in Venezuela? Exactly. And now that have ethnic minorities to pander to as well. Labour have a similar problem to UKIP. Now that a definition of poor is having a TV of less than 50 inches, who is poor enough to vote for the sorry bunch of hypocrites. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Apr 2017 2.53pm)

Hrolf The Ganger

21 Apr 17 2.53pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

I think you mean Labour there. Coming in for nearly a century of Labour dominance in the north, and look at the state of it. Labour need and thrive on a poverty-bound electorate - how else will they sell their fabled socialist utopia. Perhaps with promotional videos from their comrades in Venezuela?

Exactly. And now that have ethnic minorities to pander to as well.

Labour have a similar problem to UKIP. Now that a definition of poor is having a TV of less than 50 inches, who is poor enough to vote for the sorry bunch of hypocrites.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (21 Apr 2017 2.53pm)

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 2.54pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey So that would be a "no" then. All doom and gloom in your little echo chamber. Can't wait to see you proven wrong. Brexit is, and will be, the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. But do carry on howling at the moon. Where is your evidence to back this up? I was merely pointing out that the IMF stats you were trying to use had big caveats which you'd ignored. I was also pointing out that foreigners buying UK property is not inward investment. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, however so far I've seen no proof whatsoever. I've offered numerous amounts of data and analysis to back up every point I've made but you seem to ignore the facts. I'd be genuinely interested to read some credible source to back up your claims.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 21 Apr 17 2.54pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

So that would be a "no" then. All doom and gloom in your little echo chamber.

Can't wait to see you proven wrong. Brexit is, and will be, the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. But do carry on howling at the moon.

Where is your evidence to back this up?

I was merely pointing out that the IMF stats you were trying to use had big caveats which you'd ignored.

I was also pointing out that foreigners buying UK property is not inward investment.

I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, however so far I've seen no proof whatsoever. I've offered numerous amounts of data and analysis to back up every point I've made but you seem to ignore the facts.

I'd be genuinely interested to read some credible source to back up your claims.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 2.58pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey I think you mean Labour there. Coming in for nearly a century of Labour dominance in the north, and look at the state of it. Labour need and thrive on a poverty-bound electorate - how else will they sell their fabled socialist utopia. Perhaps with promotional videos from their comrades in Venezuela? Labour also dominate in London, one of the most successful cities in the world. Local bodies don't have the kind of power that would allow you to claim that areas where one particular party are strong have that particular party to thank or blame. If a Tory government is in power they make the decisions not the local Labour party and vice versa. It's not like in the North they had an option to avoid austerity and the Labour party in the North decided against it. I'd love to see some actual evidence to support something you say one day!

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 21 Apr 17 2.58pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Labour also dominate in London, one of the most successful cities in the world. Local bodies don't have the kind of power that would allow you to claim that areas where one particular party are strong have that particular party to thank or blame. If a Tory government is in power they make the decisions not the local Labour party and vice versa.

It's not like in the North they had an option to avoid austerity and the Labour party in the North decided against it.

I'd love to see some actual evidence to support something you say one day!

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Nick knows that all to well but he has Jeremy Corbyn's likeness tattooed on his arse. That's funny cos Nigel Farage has your arse tattooed on his face.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Nick knows that all to well but he has Jeremy Corbyn's likeness tattooed on his arse.

That's funny cos Nigel Farage has your arse tattooed on his face.

hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 3.06pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Indeed, but the question really is why isn't it, because those who benefit from the system, find that exploitation is beneficial to them - and its easier to exploit people if they're dependent on you, and in fear of their livehoods and economic stability. The problems of morality, is that people are not moral, part of the role of state has to be to regulate and control, in order to limit the extent of exploitation, and ensure the well being of all of its people - not just those who they identify with. The problem with capitalism is the same as with socialism, you can't rely on people to make the moral decision to 'do right' over their own self benefit and interest. That has to be what the state is there for. Edited by jamiemartin721 (21 Apr 2017 2.49pm) Did the states where most power was held by the state, eg: USSR, China, Cuba, Easter Europe, North Korea, Iraq etc, 'do right' by their people? Edited by hedgehog50 (21 Apr 2017 3.07pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 21 Apr 17 3.06pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The problem with capitalism is the same as with socialism, you can't rely on people to make the moral decision to 'do right' over their own self benefit and interest.

That has to be what the state is there for.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (21 Apr 2017 2.49pm)

Did the states where most power was held by the state, eg: USSR, China, Cuba, Easter Europe, North Korea, Iraq etc, 'do right' by their people?

Edited by hedgehog50 (21 Apr 2017 3.07pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.09pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Did the states where most power was held by the state, eg: USSR, China, Cuba, Easter Europe, North Korea 'do right' by their people? Do you seriously think Corbyn is aiming to make the U.K like any of these?

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.09pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Did the states where most power was held by the state, eg: USSR, China, Cuba, Easter Europe, North Korea 'do right' by their people?

Do you seriously think Corbyn is aiming to make the U.K like any of these?

Part Time James 21 Apr 17 3.09pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Do you seriously think Corbyn is aiming to make the U.K like any of these? I don't think he's honestly expecting to get much influence on the future of the UK at all.

Part Time James

21 Apr 17 3.09pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you seriously think Corbyn is aiming to make the U.K like any of these?

I don't think he's honestly expecting to get much influence on the future of the UK at all.

hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 3.11pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Do you seriously think Corbyn is aiming to make the U.K like any of these? No, and I didn't say he was. I'm merely pointing out the tendency is that the more power a state has over its people, the more repressive it is - and socialism is all about state control. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 21 Apr 17 3.11pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you seriously think Corbyn is aiming to make the U.K like any of these?

No, and I didn't say he was. I'm merely pointing out the tendency is that the more power a state has over its people, the more repressive it is - and socialism is all about state control.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.12pm
Originally posted by Part Time James I don't think he's honestly expecting to get much influence on the future of the UK at all. Touche. But seriously I've seen tweets etc that say something on the lines of Corbyn will turn us into Soviet Russia. I think people actually believe that s***.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.12pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

I don't think he's honestly expecting to get much influence on the future of the UK at all.

Touche. But seriously I've seen tweets etc that say something on the lines of Corbyn will turn us into Soviet Russia.
I think people actually believe that s***.

Part Time James 21 Apr 17 3.14pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Touche. But seriously I've seen tweets etc that say something on the lines of Corbyn will turn us into Soviet Russia. I think people actually believe that s***. All I hope is that Twitter and Facebook don't reflect the intelligence levels of my fellow human beings.

Part Time James

21 Apr 17 3.14pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Touche. But seriously I've seen tweets etc that say something on the lines of Corbyn will turn us into Soviet Russia.
I think people actually believe that s***.

All I hope is that Twitter and Facebook don't reflect the intelligence levels of my fellow human beings.

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