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Hrolf The Ganger 02 Dec 16 5.42pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Which could be a major concern when you move from the idea of a referendum to a constitutional system. I think its likely that a lot of Conservative remain voters would vote Lib Dem. I still think in most Labour heartlands, very few Labour votes will vote conservative, even if its a Exit strong area. Maybe UKIP, but that won't help the Tories as much as Lib Dems hovering up remaininers in the South East. All very fanciful plus you are forgetting that by no means all Remainers want a second referendum. If there is a sniff of that then they might vote Tory or UKIP. The whole second referendum thing is so transparently political and that will be offensive to many. Some people actually respect democracy.

Hrolf The Ganger

02 Dec 16 5.42pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Which could be a major concern when you move from the idea of a referendum to a constitutional system. I think its likely that a lot of Conservative remain voters would vote Lib Dem.

I still think in most Labour heartlands, very few Labour votes will vote conservative, even if its a Exit strong area. Maybe UKIP, but that won't help the Tories as much as Lib Dems hovering up remaininers in the South East.

All very fanciful plus you are forgetting that by no means all Remainers want a second referendum. If there is a sniff of that then they might vote Tory or UKIP.
The whole second referendum thing is so transparently political and that will be offensive to many. Some people actually respect democracy.

steeleye20 Croydon 02 Dec 16 6.05pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger All very fanciful plus you are forgetting that by no means all Remainers want a second referendum. If there is a sniff of that then they might vote Tory or UKIP. The whole second referendum thing is so transparently political and that will be offensive to many. Some people actually respect democracy. I am one of them referendums are an abdication of responsibility by the govt. of the day - another farcical referendum in Italy next week the PM thinks he should change the constitution so that it runs his way! Or guess what he will resign!

steeleye20

Croydon 02 Dec 16 6.05pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I am one of them referendums are an abdication of responsibility by the govt. of the day - another farcical referendum in Italy next week the PM thinks he should change the constitution so that it runs his way! Or guess what he will resign!

davenotamonkey 02 Dec 16 6.57pm
Originally posted by legaleagle So,anyone not on the right of the Tory party is now part of the left ? "The Lib Dems overturned an enormous Conservative majority to beat the former mayoral candidate in a by-election defined by Brexit" I thought you guys believed the voice of the people was legitimate and should be taken note of?. Edited by legaleagle (02 Dec 2016 7.51am) So if this by-election was "defined by Brexit", as Remainiacs are desperate to claim, let's look at the Richmond results: 1. EU referendum = 70% remain 2. Remain-backed candidates = 49.68+3.67 = 53.35% remain I see that as a (70-53) = 17% swing towards Brexit. Based on the Prof. Hanretty analysis of constituency data, there were 401/632 Brexit constituencies (63%). I wonder how many more constituencies would flip from Remainiac to Brexit based on that swing? Oh?? I'm taking figures out of context and contorting it beyond all meaningful use? I suggest you look at some of the shi'te the LimpDems, and even EU officials are claiming this result means for their sad cause. Both sides can play that game.

davenotamonkey

02 Dec 16 6.57pm

Originally posted by legaleagle

So,anyone not on the right of the Tory party is now part of the left ?

"The Lib Dems overturned an enormous Conservative majority to beat the former mayoral candidate in a by-election defined by Brexit"

I thought you guys believed the voice of the people was legitimate and should be taken note of?.

Edited by legaleagle (02 Dec 2016 7.51am)

So if this by-election was "defined by Brexit", as Remainiacs are desperate to claim, let's look at the Richmond results:

1. EU referendum = 70% remain
2. Remain-backed candidates = 49.68+3.67 = 53.35% remain

I see that as a (70-53) = 17% swing towards Brexit.

Based on the Prof. Hanretty analysis of constituency data, there were 401/632 Brexit constituencies (63%). I wonder how many more constituencies would flip from Remainiac to Brexit based on that swing?

Oh?? I'm taking figures out of context and contorting it beyond all meaningful use? I suggest you look at some of the shi'te the LimpDems, and even EU officials are claiming this result means for their sad cause. Both sides can play that game.

Kermit8 Hevon 02 Dec 16 7.21pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey So if this by-election was "defined by Brexit", as Remainiacs are desperate to claim, let's look at the Richmond results: 1. EU referendum = 70% remain 2. Remain-backed candidates = 49.68+3.67 = 53.35% remain I see that as a (70-53) = 17% swing towards Brexit. Based on the Prof. Hanretty analysis of constituency data, there were 401/632 Brexit constituencies (63%). I wonder how many more constituencies would flip from Remainiac to Brexit based on that swing? Oh?? I'm taking figures out of context and contorting it beyond all meaningful use? I suggest you look at some of the shi'te the LimpDems, and even EU officials are claiming this result means for their sad cause. Both sides can play that game. I do like your posts dave i've gotta admit. I have a question. Now that we know that the £350,000,0000 EU money per week will now not perhaps be seen by the NHS as advertised, nor that Turkey are in imminent danger of joining the EU as advertised, or that we will have access to the single market on our terms as advertised, and that other countries/companies will not be necessarily bending over backwards to keep our trade as advertised; would you be confident of 51.9% or more for Brexit if a second referendum were held? Not trying to point score here but just wondering what you think our options should be if you don't think a majority for Brexit would be achieved now? i.e the tacit majority would now want to stay. Pursue a Hard Brexit or assuage the general feeling and go for Soft? Would be very interesting to know, even though we can't of course, how much of the Brexit vote would accept the soft option now? The middle ground may be the way to go to bring the majority together, i suspect. Edited by Kermit8 (02 Dec 2016 7.44pm) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 02 Dec 16 7.21pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

So if this by-election was "defined by Brexit", as Remainiacs are desperate to claim, let's look at the Richmond results:

1. EU referendum = 70% remain
2. Remain-backed candidates = 49.68+3.67 = 53.35% remain

I see that as a (70-53) = 17% swing towards Brexit.

I do like your posts dave i've gotta admit.

I have a question.

Now that we know that the £350,000,0000 EU money per week will now not perhaps be seen by the NHS as advertised, nor that Turkey are in imminent danger of joining the EU as advertised, or that we will have access to the single market on our terms as advertised, and that other countries/companies will not be necessarily bending over backwards to keep our trade as advertised; would you be confident of 51.9% or more for Brexit if a second referendum were held?

Not trying to point score here but just wondering what you think our options should be if you don't think a majority for Brexit would be achieved now? i.e the tacit majority would now want to stay.

Pursue a Hard Brexit or assuage the general feeling and go for Soft?

Would be very interesting to know, even though we can't of course, how much of the Brexit vote would accept the soft option now? The middle ground may be the way to go to bring the majority together, i suspect.

Edited by Kermit8 (02 Dec 2016 7.44pm)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

chris123 hove actually 02 Dec 16 7.27pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 I do like your posts dave i've gotta admit. I have a question. Now that we know that the £350,000,0000 EU money per week will now not perhaps seen by the NHS as advertised, nor that Turkey are in imminent danger of joining the EU as advertised, or that we will have access to the single market on our terms as advertised, and that other countries/companies will not be necessarily bending over backwards to keep our trade as advertised; would you be confident of 51.9% or more for Brexit if a second referendum were held? Not trying to point score here but just wondering what you think our options should be if you don't think a majority for Brexit would be achieved now? i.e the tacit majority would now want to stay. Pursue a Hard Bexit or assuage the general feeling and go for Soft? Edited by Kermit8 (02 Dec 2016 7.23pm) When did you first know the £350m was a gross number?

chris123

hove actually 02 Dec 16 7.27pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

I do like your posts dave i've gotta admit.

I have a question.

Now that we know that the £350,000,0000 EU money per week will now not perhaps seen by the NHS as advertised, nor that Turkey are in imminent danger of joining the EU as advertised, or that we will have access to the single market on our terms as advertised, and that other countries/companies will not be necessarily bending over backwards to keep our trade as advertised; would you be confident of 51.9% or more for Brexit if a second referendum were held?

Not trying to point score here but just wondering what you think our options should be if you don't think a majority for Brexit would be achieved now? i.e the tacit majority would now want to stay.

Pursue a Hard Bexit or assuage the general feeling and go for Soft?

Edited by Kermit8 (02 Dec 2016 7.23pm)

When did you first know the £350m was a gross number?

Kermit8 Hevon 02 Dec 16 7.39pm
Originally posted by chris123 When did you first know the £350m was a gross number? It was written on the side of The Truth Bus. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 02 Dec 16 7.39pm

Originally posted by chris123

When did you first know the £350m was a gross number?

It was written on the side of The Truth Bus.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

chris123 hove actually 02 Dec 16 7.48pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 It was written on the side of The Truth Bus. Well if you're not going to answer, I'll assume that you like most people, knew full well that it was a gross number.

chris123

hove actually 02 Dec 16 7.48pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

It was written on the side of The Truth Bus.

Well if you're not going to answer, I'll assume that you like most people, knew full well that it was a gross number.

Kermit8 Hevon 02 Dec 16 7.52pm
Originally posted by chris123 Well if you're not going to answer, I'll assume that you like most people, knew full well that it was a gross number. The people who wrote it on the side of The Truth Bus didn't make that clear for obvious reasons. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 02 Dec 16 7.52pm

Originally posted by chris123

Well if you're not going to answer, I'll assume that you like most people, knew full well that it was a gross number.

The people who wrote it on the side of The Truth Bus didn't make that clear for obvious reasons.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

chris123 hove actually 02 Dec 16 8.07pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 The people who wrote it on the side of The Truth Bus didn't make that clear for obvious reasons. You knew!!

chris123

hove actually 02 Dec 16 8.07pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

The people who wrote it on the side of The Truth Bus didn't make that clear for obvious reasons.

You knew!!

johnfirewall 02 Dec 16 9.24pm
By 'left' I'm referring to the quoted MP and everyone else attributing the Brexit vote to racism. i.e. a Liberal Democrat and the sort of people who demand we all conform to their ideals of some sort of European harmony for the sake of it. London on the whole voted Remain and this affluent area who won't buying in to the migration v jobs argument are going to reflect the overall sentiment. Similarly the same motives apply from the Mayoral election with the kicker of people leaning towards voting for a party over an independent.

johnfirewall

02 Dec 16 9.24pm

By 'left' I'm referring to the quoted MP and everyone else attributing the Brexit vote to racism.

i.e. a Liberal Democrat and the sort of people who demand we all conform to their ideals of some sort of European harmony for the sake of it.

London on the whole voted Remain and this affluent area who won't buying in to the migration v jobs argument are going to reflect the overall sentiment.

Similarly the same motives apply from the Mayoral election with the kicker of people leaning towards voting for a party over an independent.

Hrolf The Ganger 02 Dec 16 9.27pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 I do like your posts dave i've gotta admit. I have a question. Now that we know that the £350,000,0000 EU money per week will now not perhaps be seen by the NHS as advertised, nor that Turkey are in imminent danger of joining the EU as advertised, or that we will have access to the single market on our terms as advertised, and that other countries/companies will not be necessarily bending over backwards to keep our trade as advertised; would you be confident of 51.9% or more for Brexit if a second referendum were held? Not trying to point score here but just wondering what you think our options should be if you don't think a majority for Brexit would be achieved now? i.e the tacit majority would now want to stay. Pursue a Hard Brexit or assuage the general feeling and go for Soft? Would be very interesting to know, even though we can't of course, how much of the Brexit vote would accept the soft option now? The middle ground may be the way to go to bring the majority together, i suspect. Edited by Kermit8 (02 Dec 2016 7.44pm) Brilliant. That means no one gets what they wanted. Hard Brexit is the only Brexit worth having.

Hrolf The Ganger

02 Dec 16 9.27pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

I do like your posts dave i've gotta admit.

I have a question.

Not trying to point score here but just wondering what you think our options should be if you don't think a majority for Brexit would be achieved now? i.e the tacit majority would now want to stay.

Pursue a Hard Brexit or assuage the general feeling and go for Soft?

Would be very interesting to know, even though we can't of course, how much of the Brexit vote would accept the soft option now? The middle ground may be the way to go to bring the majority together, i suspect.

Edited by Kermit8 (02 Dec 2016 7.44pm)

Brilliant. That means no one gets what they wanted.

Hard Brexit is the only Brexit worth having.

Nest 02 Dec 16 9.30pm
A Lib/Ukip coalition. That will end well

Nest

02 Dec 16 9.30pm

A Lib/Ukip coalition. That will end well

johnfirewall 02 Dec 16 9.54pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 The middle ground may be the way to go to bring the majority together, i suspect. Well your moral guardianship has brought Blair back. It would be interesting to see what he might offer in this capacity. I'm guessing it would be along the lines of free movement in return for maintaining tariffs which everyone would lap up including a few Brexiters who don't realise this is essential the same as the current terms of EU membership.

johnfirewall

02 Dec 16 9.54pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

The middle ground may be the way to go to bring the majority together, i suspect.

Well your moral guardianship has brought Blair back. It would be interesting to see what he might offer in this capacity. I'm guessing it would be along the lines of free movement in return for maintaining tariffs which everyone would lap up including a few Brexiters who don't realise this is essential the same as the current terms of EU membership.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Dec 16 10.09pm
Originally posted by johnfirewall Well your moral guardianship has brought Blair back. It would be interesting to see what he might offer in this capacity. I'm guessing it would be along the lines of free movement in return for maintaining tariffs which everyone would lap up including a few Brexiters who don't realise this is essential the same as the current terms of EU membership. But more expensive.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 02 Dec 16 10.09pm

Originally posted by johnfirewall

But more expensive.

Rudi Hedman Caterham 02 Dec 16 11.46pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You guys are hilarious. So a constituency that voted 70% remain, something totally out of line with the country, votes a Remainer into power with the main opposition quitting his party and becoming an independent and you think this means that the country want a second referendum? You couldn't make it up. Feckin' ell do you have to ruin their party and hopes so succinctly? COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 02 Dec 16 11.46pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You guys are hilarious.

So a constituency that voted 70% remain, something totally out of line with the country, votes a Remainer into power with the main opposition quitting his party and becoming an independent and you think this means that the country want a second referendum?

You couldn't make it up.

Feckin' ell do you have to ruin their party and hopes so succinctly?

COYP

Hoof Hearted 03 Dec 16 9.58am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Feckin' ell do you have to ruin their party and hopes so succinctly? BUt Hrolf is absolutely bang on with his assessment. The LimpDems are just blatant opportunists and always have been. "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for Government" another false dawn for the LimpDems.

Hoof Hearted 03 Dec 16 9.58am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Feckin' ell do you have to ruin their party and hopes so succinctly?

BUt Hrolf is absolutely bang on with his assessment.

The LimpDems are just blatant opportunists and always have been.

"Go back to your constituencies and prepare for Government"

another false dawn for the LimpDems.

Rudi Hedman Caterham 03 Dec 16 2.23pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted BUt Hrolf is absolutely bang on with his assessment. The LimpDems are just blatant opportunists and always have been. "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for Government" another false dawn for the LimpDems. Yep COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 03 Dec 16 2.23pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

BUt Hrolf is absolutely bang on with his assessment.

The LimpDems are just blatant opportunists and always have been.

"Go back to your constituencies and prepare for Government"

another false dawn for the LimpDems.

Yep

COYP

jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Dec 16 4.16pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted BUt Hrolf is absolutely bang on with his assessment. The LimpDems are just blatant opportunists and always have been. "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for Government" another false dawn for the LimpDems. Thank the gods that can't be levelled at UKIP. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 03 Dec 16 4.16pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

BUt Hrolf is absolutely bang on with his assessment.

The LimpDems are just blatant opportunists and always have been.

"Go back to your constituencies and prepare for Government"

another false dawn for the LimpDems.

Thank the gods that can't be levelled at UKIP.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Hrolf The Ganger 03 Dec 16 5.19pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Thank the gods that can't be levelled at UKIP. I bet they get a lot mote votes than the Liberals. Their representation in Parliament is just a little disproportionate to their slice of the votes. When you see the SNP influence, it does make you wonder if people are being fairly represented under the current system. All the time the single issue is not resolved, the so called single issue party will do well.

Hrolf The Ganger

03 Dec 16 5.19pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Thank the gods that can't be levelled at UKIP.

I bet they get a lot mote votes than the Liberals. Their representation in Parliament is just a little disproportionate to their slice of the votes. When you see the SNP influence, it does make you wonder if people are being fairly represented under the current system.

All the time the single issue is not resolved, the so called single issue party will do well.

matt_himself Matataland 03 Dec 16 7.02pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Thank the gods that can't be levelled at UKIP. It is different, Jamie. The Lib Dems have always had a preoccupation with democracy. They have always extolled the virtues of a change to the democratic process in the UK and campaigned for the change side when the STV referendum happened a few years ago. What they are doing now is cynically seeking to get the Remain vote by saying they will ignore democracy and vote against leaving the EU. It's hypocrisy at its highest level. It will contribute to wiping out Labour at the next election. I would normally welcome that but under these circumstances, no. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 03 Dec 16 7.02pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Thank the gods that can't be levelled at UKIP.

It is different, Jamie.

The Lib Dems have always had a preoccupation with democracy. They have always extolled the virtues of a change to the democratic process in the UK and campaigned for the change side when the STV referendum happened a few years ago.

What they are doing now is cynically seeking to get the Remain vote by saying they will ignore democracy and vote against leaving the EU.

It's hypocrisy at its highest level.

It will contribute to wiping out Labour at the next election. I would normally welcome that but under these circumstances, no.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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