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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 OknotOK  Cockfosters, London 07 Dec 16 10.22am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Couldn't disagree more a referendum is just an opinion poll it doesn't have a legal status unless the enabling bill makes it so. Thats the root of the problem that the enabling bill does not specify any action upon the result except to advise. This is where our millions go on badly drafted legislation. Do take your point. Vote didn't go as I expected or probably wanted but it cannot be dismissed as a mere opinion poll. Whether it is legally binding in law or not, for any elected government to ignore the stated wish of the majority of the population would represent a constitutional crisis.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hoof Hearted 07 Dec 16 10.23am | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Looking forward to Mrs May's 'red white and blue' brexit? Well that's the French flag colors. How appropriate..... The tricolor at Selhurst Park permanently. Speaks volumes of your opinion of the UK that hearing the colours red, white and blue evokes thoughts of the French Tricolor before the Union Jack. Just incase you haven't noticed quite a few nations have flags that are coloured red, white and blue, not just France Japseye.
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| Hoof Hearted 07 Dec 16 10.25am | |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Vote didn't go as I expected or probably wanted but it cannot be dismissed as a mere opinion poll. Whether it is legally binding in law or not, for any elected government to ignore the stated wish of the majority of the population would represent a constitutional crisis. Well said... good to see some adult thinking on this issue.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Dec 16 10.31am |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Vote didn't go as I expected or probably wanted but it cannot be dismissed as a mere opinion poll. Whether it is legally binding in law or not, for any elected government to ignore the stated wish of the majority of the population would represent a constitutional crisis. I totally agree with you as the population made their vote as in general elections and the government must stand by that result. Where steeleye20 gets his ideas is beyond me. he comes out with un thought out statements every time he posts. His hatred for brexit is there for all to see and lives in his own little world!
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 10.34am |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Speaks volumes of your opinion of the UK that hearing the colours red, white and blue evokes thoughts of the French Tricolor before the Union Jack. Just incase you haven't noticed quite a few nations have flags that are coloured red, white and blue, not just France Japseye. Foolish of Mrs.May as the other members of the union do not agree with England on brexit could be a break up Scotland in particular.
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 07 Dec 16 10.38am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Foolish of Mrs.May as the other members of the union do not agree with England on brexit could be a break up Scotland in particular. Have you taken your pills today as you do not make a lot of sense in your reply.... Of course the other member states do not agree with us on Brexit and Scotland is stuck with us for a long time yet.
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 10.49am |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Vote didn't go as I expected or probably wanted but it cannot be dismissed as a mere opinion poll. Whether it is legally binding in law or not, for any elected government to ignore the stated wish of the majority of the population would represent a constitutional crisis. You and many others did not read the small print its no good wishing it has to be exact thats what the courts are doing examining what it actually says not you or I think. Calling a referendum is already a constitutional crisis in a country where there is no written constitution (us) as Mrs. Thatcher said it is political expediency at the expense of parliamentary sovereignity.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 10.56am |
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Originally posted by susmik
Have you taken your pills today as you do not make a lot of sense in your reply.... Of course the other member states do not agree with us on Brexit and Scotland is stuck with us for a long time yet. The EU remember them can see quite clearly that half the brits do not want to leave and that the UK is divided.
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 07 Dec 16 11.06am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You and many others did not read the small print its no good wishing it has to be exact thats what the courts are doing examining what it actually says not you or I think. Calling a referendum is already a constitutional crisis in a country where there is no written constitution (us) as Mrs. Thatcher said it is political expediency at the expense of parliamentary sovereignity. It's not about the small print. I'm not denying that parliament should be involved. But I am saying that at the very least any MP representing a constituency that voted Brexit is obligated to vote that way when it is debated in parliament. And that all MPs should respect the will of the majority of those who voted in the referendum. Only really the SNP who voted against the referendum being held, and where the clear majority of voters and MPs do not support that view can really have a justifiable stance in voting against implementing. I voted Remain for fcuk's sake. I just don't see how anyone can claim to have democratic legitimacy if they don't accept the vote. Buyer's remorse for the small number who voted Brexit but now regret it certainly isn't a justification. Interestingly my MP - Theresa Villiers - actually represents a constituency that voted fairly comprehensively remain but is a Brexiter. I have asked her how she intends to reconcile the two positions. Edited by OknotOK (07 Dec 2016 11.08am)
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hoof Hearted 07 Dec 16 11.22am | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Foolish of Mrs.May as the other members of the union do not agree with England on brexit could be a break up Scotland in particular. So what? Scotland represents a mere 7% of our population and yet cost us a lot more than 7% of our economy due to the Barnett Formula... add to that the West Lothian question (Scottish MP's voting on english issues but not vice versa). Sturgeon can bleat all she wants... the UK referendum was not broken down into separate regions needing their own approval. She knows she will lose an Independence referendum now due to their failing economy (which we subsidise heavily). Scotland needs us more than we need them.
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| The White Horse 07 Dec 16 1.05pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Anyone who wants a good laugh at a remoaner MP getting a true rinsing live on air, google the radio interview between new Lib Dem MP Sarah Olney and talk radios's Julia Hartley-Brewer. She gets hooked off half way through Funny as fcuk. Point being it highlights the very real hypocrisy and attitude of large swathes of the remoan supporters. The "keep voting until we win" stance is tiresome. I enjoyed this interview as much as the next man, but I'd say not having slept for 36 hours probably had more to do with her basically ending the interview than the incisiveness of the questioning.
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 07 Dec 16 1.23pm |
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Originally posted by The White Horse
I enjoyed this interview as much as the next man, but I'd say not having slept for 36 hours probably had more to do with her basically ending the interview than the incisiveness of the questioning. Then you are naive Monsieur Cheval Blanc, it is clear from the tone of the interjecting moronic press officer, that she's been withdrawn from the firing line before she cried and stamps her feet.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Dec 16 1.39pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You and many others did not read the small print its no good wishing it has to be exact thats what the courts are doing examining what it actually says not you or I think. Calling a referendum is already a constitutional crisis in a country where there is no written constitution (us) as Mrs. Thatcher said it is political expediency at the expense of parliamentary sovereignity. The UK does have a constitution of sorts, laid down in the 1998 Human Rights act, and in legal precedent, fundamentally dating back to magna carta. You don't need a written constitution to have a constitution, only the means by which constitutional law is established and enforced.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Dec 16 1.48pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Couldn't disagree more a referendum is just an opinion poll it doesn't have a legal status unless the enabling bill makes it so. Thats the root of the problem that the enabling bill does not specify any action upon the result except to advise. This is where our millions go on badly drafted legislation. Do take your point. You'd be wrong though, as the referendum was created by an act of parliament, with authority given to the secretary of state. As such, if government tried to claim it was 'not adhering to the result' the degree to which it could be ignored would likely be tested in court. Almost certainly this would lead to the judiciary setting the necessary precedent that Referendums are binding, and that governments are obliged to purse the result. And UK government (and opposition) know that. Existing precedent is on their side (as all outcomes from referendums have been honoured, and adhered to). Referendums are not currently binding. But that's only because its never been tested in UK law. And there is no way in UK law, that a democratically elected government, could hope to win that case. Without a general election tested pledge or a second referendum, an exit from the EU is unavoidable. Its all really about how. Its as absurd to say otherwise, as it is those fringe Exiters, who just want to repeal the 1975 act, without engaging in Artcle 50. Neither would be legally upheld.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 1.58pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
The UK does have a constitution of sorts, laid down in the 1998 Human Rights act, and in legal precedent, fundamentally dating back to magna carta. You don't need a written constitution to have a constitution, only the means by which constitutional law is established and enforced. I'm staying with Mrs.T on this one
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| steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 2.59pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
You'd be wrong though, as the referendum was created by an act of parliament, with authority given to the secretary of state. As such, if government tried to claim it was 'not adhering to the result' the degree to which it could be ignored would likely be tested in court. Almost certainly this would lead to the judiciary setting the necessary precedent that Referendums are binding, and that governments are obliged to purse the result. And UK government (and opposition) know that. Existing precedent is on their side (as all outcomes from referendums have been honoured, and adhered to). Referendums are not currently binding. But that's only because its never been tested in UK law. And there is no way in UK law, that a democratically elected government, could hope to win that case. Without a general election tested pledge or a second referendum, an exit from the EU is unavoidable. Its all really about how. Its as absurd to say otherwise, as it is those fringe Exiters, who just want to repeal the 1975 act, without engaging in Artcle 50. Neither would be legally upheld. The referendum enabling bill instructed the result to be advisory. That is what has happened. Referendum results are binding in law if the enabling bill states that is what is to be done with the result. What possible legal challenge could there be? Parliament has specified they are to be advised and that has taken place.
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