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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Bert the Head  Epsom 20 Jan 17 11.25pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
If you look through history, the way in which humanity has developed is through trade, entrepreneurialism and taking risk. No society has flourished through socialism. This is not because of the 'right wing media conspiracy', as no such a body existed in the Soviet Union, Pol Pot's Cambodia or in modern day North Korea or Cuba. It is simply because human nature is defined as survival of the fittest. Humans need to care for humans. That is why we encourage charity work, community work and mentoring. However, the type of manufactured bulls*** you stand for is a simple attempt at a power grab that would result in a loss of hard fought for freedoms, a lot of deaths (socialism is good at that and even beating fascism hands down in body count), the ceasing of human development and a punch drunk culture of impassioned inaction. You can chuck all the 'humanity' digs at me as you wish but I will stand by my view that the likes of Nigel Farage have achieved more for the common man than Jeremy f***ing Corbyn ever will. Keep living in la la land if you wish to. Right wing heroes like Nigel have won that right for you. Edited by matt_himself (20 Jan 2017 3.13pm)
With reference to your statement that "No society has flourished through socialism" I think you are letting Capitalism off the hook a bit, there are many many dirt poor Capitalist countries. We are the sixth wealthiest country in the world don't forget and its not all rosy. So I wonder how tough things are in the 100th richest Capitalist country in the world are. As for the rest of your post, I don't think you are very well read and your opinion though enthusiastic is drunk man in pub stuff. It doesn't have to be as you are obviously curious about the working of the world; but alas currently it is. You have more enthusiasm for the keyboard than the book. Just spin it round a bit. Happy reading. PS the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express don't count.
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 17 2.23am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
He has, how? He has contributed in freeing the nation from the undemocratic claw of Brussels.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 17 2.25am |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
With reference to your statement that "No society has flourished through socialism" I think you are letting Capitalism off the hook a bit, there are many many dirt poor Capitalist countries. We are the sixth wealthiest country in the world don't forget and its not all rosy. So I wonder how tough things are in the 100th richest Capitalist country in the world are. As for the rest of your post, I don't think you are very well read and your opinion though enthusiastic is drunk man in pub stuff. It doesn't have to be as you are obviously curious about the working of the world; but alas currently it is. You have more enthusiasm for the keyboard than the book. Just spin it round a bit. Happy reading. PS the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express don't count.
Leftie unable to respond in a cogent manner so resorts to 'lack of education' taunt shocker.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 17 2.27am |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Where did I ever say he did "dear"? Plain lazy contribution from "the right" Why bring Farage into the debate? You used his name and implied NHS privatisation is a bad thing. Why not reference Tim irrelevant from the Lib Deads or Owen Smith or Nicola Krankie or that Green Party hippie loony when discussing the NHS?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 21 Jan 17 2.38am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Not true. Kerala has, in relation to other more capitalist states in India, with a Commie/Socialist regime for over 50 years post Independence. A left-wing success story, don't you know. Now add workers rights across the Western World and other positive advances for those 'at the coal face' because of left-wing activism and it kind of puts your pathological hatred of anything not 'of The Right' in the 'special ward' where it belongs. Edited by Kermit8 (20 Jan 2017 5.58pm) Well done in finding example of a small part of a country that has had economic success through a mixture of capitalism and socialism which, unlike most of its socialist peers, hasn't resorted to widespread bloodshed or suppression of freedoms in order to function. Michael, I accept that the unions have played a role in workers rights over the years, your bigotry blinds you to this, but you also have to accept that great pioneers of workers rights were themselves largely capitalists. Thomas Salt, Abraham Lincoln, Richard Cobden, John Bright, Adam Smith all did their bit to remove restrictions and free people to take control of their economic and social destiny. Your view that capitalist equals bad, socialist equals good is straight empty vessel hollering, Rik from the Young Ones style.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 21 Jan 17 4.07am |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
Well were are up for a US Trade Deal, and the TTIP got knocked back by Europe (the UK press were light on coverage) but we are on our own now and it is full of American companies bidding for our health services. But don't take my world for it look it up for yourself. Edited by Bert the Head (20 Jan 2017 10.56pm) You have got it so wrong, it's hilarious! TTIP the proposed trade agreement between the EU and the USA is one of the reasons I voted for Brexit because US health companies could sue the UK government in special courts... Now we are out of the EU, this can't happen. Also, the EU is still hoping to save TTIP, so it's not been knocked back.
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| Hoof Hearted 21 Jan 17 11.13am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
If you look through history, the way in which humanity has developed is through trade, entrepreneurialism and taking risk. No society has flourished through socialism. This is not because of the 'right wing media conspiracy', as no such a body existed in the Soviet Union, Pol Pot's Cambodia or in modern day North Korea or Cuba. It is simply because human nature is defined as survival of the fittest. Humans need to care for humans. That is why we encourage charity work, community work and mentoring. However, the type of manufactured bulls*** you stand for is a simple attempt at a power grab that would result in a loss of hard fought for freedoms, a lot of deaths (socialism is good at that and even beating fascism hands down in body count), the ceasing of human development and a punch drunk culture of impassioned inaction. You can chuck all the 'humanity' digs at me as you wish but I will stand by my view that the likes of Nigel Farage have achieved more for the common man than Jeremy f***ing Corbyn ever will. Keep living in la la land if you wish to. Right wing heroes like Nigel have won that right for you. Edited by matt_himself (20 Jan 2017 3.13pm) BEST POST EVER!!
This thread should go GOLD for that post alone!
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| Hoof Hearted 21 Jan 17 11.27am | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
With reference to your statement that "No society has flourished through socialism" I think you are letting Capitalism off the hook a bit, there are many many dirt poor Capitalist countries. We are the sixth wealthiest country in the world don't forget and its not all rosy. So I wonder how tough things are in the 100th richest Capitalist country in the world are. As for the rest of your post, I don't think you are very well read and your opinion though enthusiastic is drunk man in pub stuff. It doesn't have to be as you are obviously curious about the working of the world; but alas currently it is. You have more enthusiasm for the keyboard than the book. Just spin it round a bit. Happy reading. PS the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Express don't count.
Bert.... you little tinker... this was added on your Edit wasn't it? Old habits die hard in downtown Epsom LOL
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Jan 17 11.47am |
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No it isn't.
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| Hoof Hearted 21 Jan 17 11.52am | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Not true. Kerala has, in relation to other more capitalist states in India, with a Commie/Socialist regime for over 50 years post Independence. A left-wing success story, don't you know. Now add workers rights across the Western World and other positive advances for those 'at the coal face' because of left-wing activism and it kind of puts your pathological hatred of anything not 'of The Right' in the 'special ward' where it belongs. Edited by Kermit8 (20 Jan 2017 5.58pm) Kerala? This place hadn't come up on my knowledge radar in 62+ years, so I looked it up on Wiki.... it seems it is not even a nation but the 13th largest state of India exporting Spice as it's main trade. Haven't read all of the Wiki text but paragraph 3 says.... The state has witnessed significant emigration, especially to Arab states of the Persian Gulf during the Gulf Boom of the 1970s and early 1980s, and its economy depends significantly on remittances from a large Malayali expatriate community. That statement doesn't give me the impression of a successful economy, if it "depends significantly on remittances from a large Malayali expatriate community"? Any other examples of successful socialist regimes? Anyone......
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| steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jan 17 12.52pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Kerala? This place hadn't come up on my knowledge radar in 62+ years, so I looked it up on Wiki.... it seems it is not even a nation but the 13th largest state of India exporting Spice as it's main trade. Haven't read all of the Wiki text but paragraph 3 says.... The state has witnessed significant emigration, especially to Arab states of the Persian Gulf during the Gulf Boom of the 1970s and early 1980s, and its economy depends significantly on remittances from a large Malayali expatriate community. That statement doesn't give me the impression of a successful economy, if it "depends significantly on remittances from a large Malayali expatriate community"? Any other examples of successful socialist regimes? Anyone...... H this is a successful socialist regime provided that the remittances do not dry up
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| steeleye20 Croydon 22 Jan 17 4.09pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Readers of this article beware - its based on yougov polling.
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Jan 17 10.54am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Why bring Farage into the debate? You used his name and implied NHS privatisation is a bad thing. Why not reference Tim irrelevant from the Lib Deads or Owen Smith or Nicola Krankie or that Green Party hippie loony when discussing the NHS? I believe NHS privatisation is a bad thing, but I suggest that's probably a different debate. The point raised was whether Brexit made NHS privatisation (or specifically a US style insurance system) more likely. I bring up Farage because he was a major influencer in the Brexit debate, so his views on a post-Brexit world may well be relevant. At the moment I can't imagine Owen Smith's views are particularly relevant to anything. Sturgeon's views on the NHS are probably relevant as she has local control over health services so she should be bought into the equation (as should the equivalent in Wales). Funnily enough, as I said in the thread (which both you and Penge chose to ignore), I actually think Brexit could have made privatisation of the NHS less likely as it helped to scupper TTIP which was going to be used to allow back door privatisation. Now it will be about the views of the individual government and, while there is without doubt a vocal number of the Tory party who do support moving away from a free-at-point-of-use provision, I think most feel that it is too big a risk politically.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Jan 17 11.52am | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Readers of this article beware - its based on yougov polling. Reader of this post beware - it's based on socialist thinking.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 23 Jan 17 12.13pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Reader of this post beware - it's based on socialist thinking. As usual trying to change the subject. My post in reply to another about the single market. For your benefit it was Mrs.Thatcher who signed us into the single market and Mr.Heath who got us into the EU in the first place both Conservative Prime Ministers. Plenty of leave people do not want to leave the single market what political persuasion they are is irrelevant. Bad day for you Mrs.May lied about the Trident test. :'(
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Jan 17 12.40pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
As usual trying to change the subject. My post in reply to another about the single market. For your benefit it was Mrs.Thatcher who signed us into the single market and Mr.Heath who got us into the EU in the first place both Conservative Prime Ministers. Plenty of leave people do not want to leave the single market what political persuasion they are is irrelevant. Bad day for you Mrs.May lied about the Trident test. :'( Au Contraire Steeleye...... I was just taking the p1ss.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 23 Jan 17 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Au Contraire Steeleye...... I was just taking the p1ss. Kind regards
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| Hoof Hearted 23 Jan 17 12.58pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Kind regards ... and to you comrade.... X
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| We are goin up! Coulsdon 23 Jan 17 4.57pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
For your benefit Mr Steely Eye, at the time of us entering the Common Market the UK was "the sick man of Europe", and needed trade more than ever. The idea of the Common Market was to remove tariffs so that we could all trade together. Great. Battle won. Economy boomed. Since then, we have been restricted to an EU-only trade deal, mainly with countries much poorer than us as the club grew (without the consent of the British people) and we had to accept unlimited immigration from said club. Now, we are again removing restrictions so that we can once more prosper by making free trade deals with more countries. To suit us. Both the decision to take us in to the Common Market, and the one to take us out, were correct. Edited by We are goin up! (23 Jan 2017 4.58pm)
The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. |
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