Led by a Frenchwomen whose current government have the most at stake if we leave.

Optimistic as ever

....not that that stops them despising us for fools all the time.....

Frankly, I feel that it would probably prove cheaper to exit now under our own terms than wait to be handed an enormous bill when the whole operation all falls apart, as has happened eventually with every artificially created union in history...... and I feel it will happen sooner rather than later with all the current problems.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

The USA was a blank sheet really, formed from very young 'states' that had no deep history and culture, very, very different from the European countries that are expected to function as one entity.
It is true that the UK still exists at the moment, despite the strenuous efforts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to change that situation.
As Becky said, most artificially created political entities do fall apart sooner or later.

So true. Looking at this mesmerising 3minute vid of European border change in the last 1000 years backs it up.

[Link]

Edited by Kermit8 (13 Apr 2016 8.56am)

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Not at all. Most countries come into being because their population share common languages, culture, traditions, religions, values and general way of life. A good example of an artificially created political entity is Yugoslavia - that ended well didn't it.

Edited by djkfeirufgdfg (13 Apr 2016 9.17am)

Well.... David Cameron's "£9 million folly" arrived through my letter box yesterday.

[Link]

I'm tempted to send it back to Downing Street like many others are doing, but have given it a cursory glance/speed read and would comment....

It's not a leaflet it's a 16 page high quality booklet with 7 pages just consisting of a glossy photo and strapline.

The production costs and postage could have been drastically reduced (to about £1 million in total) if the message was imparted using a 2 sided A4 leaflet delivered by a cheaper courier/distributor than Royal Mail.

There is nothing new in the booklet, just the same tired arguments and blatant scaremongering that we are hearing every day.

The biggest joke is the statement "We have a commitment to reduce EU red tape"..... well Mr Cameron you haven't done very well in reducing it so far have you?

In fact his negotiating skills in trying to get the other 27 EU nations to agree to any of our demands has been pretty useless all round.

Lets face it, being in the EU is as good for our country as participating in the Eurovision Song Contest.... the rest of Europe want us in but aren't going to let us win it.

My conclusion about Cameron's booklet - total waste of money and full of guff.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (13 Apr 2016 10.00am)

You and I may be on different sides of the EU debate but I have to agree with you that is an inappropriate use of public funds to have produced and distributed this leaflet. I also think it is misleading that the leaflet came on official government headed paper stated a view on behalf of the government. In any election or referendum campaigns I would like to see much stricter rules and stiffer penalties for breaking them. I'd say the UK government should be neutral especially in a case like this where different cabinet members have adopted different positions.

Indeed the UK is an artificially created political entity, that is why the various nationalist groups such as the SNP, Welsh Nats and the IRA agitate to revert to their own countries.

The USA and UK aren't all that old, and arguably events in NI and Scotland, along with the rise of Plydd Cymru, and the establishment of the Welsh Parliament, suggest that the political identity of the UK has massively changed in my lifetime, in an attempt to keep its structure.

The USA isn't that old either, the civil war only ended in 1865, and arguably its identity is not really a united states, but Federated State of America, as its a series of independent state laws, bound together by federal legal structure.

In terms of a 'real country' the USA we identify is probably not much older than the turn of the 20th century with the end of the 'wild west' and its increasing industrialisation. Politically and culturally, the US is a very divided nation - with a lot of groups focused on independence and self determination of states.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Does anyone genuinely believe in having no borders or races? You are aware that would result in even fewer people running the whole world?

Of course even if we were one land mass again, it would still be a thousand years at the earliest before everyone learnt not to stick to their own. But nothing has really happened in the half century since Lennon sang about it, because geology and genetics have dictated that we're not all identical. Squash all the continents back together in the name of equality if you like but we'd only end up dividing ourselves again. We'd have beige rich and beige poor living apart. What's the fcuking point?

Edited by johnfirewall (13 Apr 2016 11.27am)