Coutts VS Nigel Farage

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Coutts VS Nigel Farage

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Teddy Eagle 01 Aug 23 10.45am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I have also read the Guardian’s reporting on this and noted that they, along with all the MSM, are taking this line. I wonder though if it will last and whether some quiet reflection produces a more objective approach. That Coutts were “virtual-signalling” is undoubtedly true. As is that Farage’s political beliefs lie at the base of the reasoning. What is not being explained at all is the mid-way step of why these things matter to the bank. Which isn’t because they disapprove of them for their politics but disapprove of them because of the potential impact on their bottom line. Then why have they offered to reinstate his account(s)?

Teddy Eagle

01 Aug 23 10.45am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I have also read the Guardian’s reporting on this and noted that they, along with all the MSM, are taking this line.

I wonder though if it will last and whether some quiet reflection produces a more objective approach.

That Coutts were “virtual-signalling” is undoubtedly true. As is that Farage’s political beliefs lie at the base of the reasoning. What is not being explained at all is the mid-way step of why these things matter to the bank. Which isn’t because they disapprove of them for their politics but disapprove of them because of the potential impact on their bottom line.

Then why have they offered to reinstate his account(s)?

georgenorman 01 Aug 23 10.46am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You can settle all you wish. What’s obvious is that detail is unimportant for you, whilst detail is often the difference between fact and fiction. When you get an idea in your mind about anything no amount of reasoning has any chance of breaking through. “...however much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing, as it were, behind your back".” [Orwell, Facing Unpleasant Facts: Narrative Essays]

georgenorman

01 Aug 23 10.46am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You can settle all you wish. What’s obvious is that detail is unimportant for you, whilst detail is often the difference between fact and fiction. When you get an idea in your mind about anything no amount of reasoning has any chance of breaking through.

“...however much you deny the truth, the truth goes on existing, as it were, behind your back".” [Orwell, Facing Unpleasant Facts: Narrative Essays]

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 10.48am
Originally posted by georgenorman That's just hair-splitting waffle (your usual modus operandi). We have courts of law that determine whether a law has been broken. Ashers were found to have broken no law, they clearly did not discriminate, Coutts clearly did. What you regard as “waffle” is far from that. It’s detail and as I have tried to explain that’s important. I would so enjoy being a barrister in front of a learned Judge with you as my opponent over issues like this. I would win every time. Doing so here is a waste of time. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 10.48am

Originally posted by georgenorman

That's just hair-splitting waffle (your usual modus operandi).

We have courts of law that determine whether a law has been broken. Ashers were found to have broken no law, they clearly did not discriminate, Coutts clearly did.

What you regard as “waffle” is far from that. It’s detail and as I have tried to explain that’s important. I would so enjoy being a barrister in front of a learned Judge with you as my opponent over issues like this. I would win every time.

Doing so here is a waste of time.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 10.50am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Then why have they offered to reinstate his account(s)? PR scrambling! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 10.50am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Then why have they offered to reinstate his account(s)?

PR scrambling!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

georgenorman 01 Aug 23 10.55am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What you regard as “waffle” is far from that. It’s detail and as I have tried to explain that’s important. I would so enjoy being a barrister in front of a learned Judge with you as my opponent over issues like this. I would win every time. Doing so here is a waste of time. If you believe that, you are more of a deluded old fool than I already thought you were.

georgenorman

01 Aug 23 10.55am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Doing so here is a waste of time.

If you believe that, you are more of a deluded old fool than I already thought you were.

NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 01 Aug 23 10.57am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Then why have they offered to reinstate his account(s)? Hopefully it's because someone in the NatWest Group has woken up ( pun intended ) to the fact that it is not in any banks remit to virtual signal. Alison Rose was a big driver of that ethos. This has been a PR disaster for NatWest/Coutts. And it's not over yet. Old, Ungifted and White

NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 01 Aug 23 10.57am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Then why have they offered to reinstate his account(s)?

Hopefully it's because someone in the NatWest Group has woken up ( pun intended ) to the fact that it is not in any banks remit to virtual signal. Alison Rose was a big driver of that ethos.

This has been a PR disaster for NatWest/Coutts.

And it's not over yet.

Old, Ungifted and White

Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 01 Aug 23 10.58am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle PR scrambling! Why would they do that as a PR stunt, when people like you say you opened an account with Nat West this week, regardless. ? They back-tracked,....because,.....they,..were,...WRONG I disengage, I turn the page.

Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 01 Aug 23 10.58am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

PR scrambling!

Why would they do that as a PR stunt, when people like you say you opened an account with Nat West this week, regardless. ?

They back-tracked,....because,.....they,..were,...WRONG

I disengage, I turn the page.

Teddy Eagle 01 Aug 23 10.59am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle PR scrambling! Well, yes but surely the perceived risk to their bottom line is still there and if anything has been increased due to their ineptitude. I'm sure that all the other account holders are the epitome of propriety but any that aren't might now be thinking about removing their assets which will definitely affect the bottom line.

Teddy Eagle

01 Aug 23 10.59am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

PR scrambling!

Well, yes but surely the perceived risk to their bottom line is still there and if anything has been increased due to their ineptitude. I'm sure that all the other account holders are the epitome of propriety but any that aren't might now be thinking about removing their assets which will definitely affect the bottom line.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Aug 23 11.57am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What you regard as “waffle” is far from that. It’s detail and as I have tried to explain that’s important. I would so enjoy being a barrister in front of a learned Judge with you as my opponent over issues like this. I would win every time. Doing so here is a waste of time. Where's Poldark when you need him? Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Aug 23 11.57am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Doing so here is a waste of time.

Where's Poldark when you need him?

Red and Blue Army!

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 12.54pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Why would they do that as a PR stunt, when people like you say you opened an account with Nat West this week, regardless. ? They back-tracked,....because,.....they,..were,...WRONG Not many people think about this as objectively as I do. Many read the Mail, Sun or other newspapers and don’t think out of the box. I suspect that the NatWest Board took this decision through gritted teeth and under a lot of political pressure. Not because they believe their approach to this subject is wrong. I would love to be a fly on the wall at their next meeting with other banks because I suspect they will be furious at the cave in. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 12.54pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Why would they do that as a PR stunt, when people like you say you opened an account with Nat West this week, regardless. ?

They back-tracked,....because,.....they,..were,...WRONG

Not many people think about this as objectively as I do. Many read the Mail, Sun or other newspapers and don’t think out of the box.

I suspect that the NatWest Board took this decision through gritted teeth and under a lot of political pressure. Not because they believe their approach to this subject is wrong. I would love to be a fly on the wall at their next meeting with other banks because I suspect they will be furious at the cave in.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 01 Aug 23 12.54pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You can settle all you wish. What’s obvious is that detail is unimportant for you, whilst detail is often the difference between fact and fiction. When you get an idea in your mind about anything no amount of reasoning has any chance of breaking through. supreme irony??

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 01 Aug 23 12.54pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You can settle all you wish. What’s obvious is that detail is unimportant for you, whilst detail is often the difference between fact and fiction. When you get an idea in your mind about anything no amount of reasoning has any chance of breaking through.

supreme irony??

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 12.57pm
Originally posted by NEILLO Hopefully it's because someone in the NatWest Group has woken up ( pun intended ) to the fact that it is not in any banks remit to virtual signal. Alison Rose was a big driver of that ethos. This has been a PR disaster for NatWest/Coutts. And it's not over yet. That may be true, and may well be seen in hindsight as a badly thought through policy. Doesn’t change their right to do it. Banks are allowed to be stupid. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 12.57pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

Hopefully it's because someone in the NatWest Group has woken up ( pun intended ) to the fact that it is not in any banks remit to virtual signal. Alison Rose was a big driver of that ethos.

This has been a PR disaster for NatWest/Coutts.

And it's not over yet.

That may be true, and may well be seen in hindsight as a badly thought through policy.

Doesn’t change their right to do it. Banks are allowed to be stupid.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 12.59pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Well, yes but surely the perceived risk to their bottom line is still there and if anything has been increased due to their ineptitude. I'm sure that all the other account holders are the epitome of propriety but any that aren't might now be thinking about removing their assets which will definitely affect the bottom line. There’s no arguing that this has been a PR disaster but that doesn’t change the facts. Banks are allowed to have PR disasters. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 12.59pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

There’s no arguing that this has been a PR disaster but that doesn’t change the facts. Banks are allowed to have PR disasters.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.01pm
Originally posted by georgenorman If you believe that, you are more of a deluded old fool than I already thought you were. I rest my case and apply to move it from this Court. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.01pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

If you believe that, you are more of a deluded old fool than I already thought you were.

I rest my case and apply to move it from this Court.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

georgenorman 01 Aug 23 1.06pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I rest my case and apply to move it from this Court. It's like arguing with a parrot with tourette's syndrome.

georgenorman

01 Aug 23 1.06pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I rest my case and apply to move it from this Court.

It's like arguing with a parrot with tourette's syndrome.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.08pm
Having thought about this it appears to me that people here, as it seems do the media and indeed the government are getting confused over what causes something and what is the reason for it? Although often used interchangeably there is actually an important difference so this isn’t just semantics. Cause is the direct effect, whilst the reason is the more nuanced motivation that lies behind it. [Link] For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.08pm

Having thought about this it appears to me that people here, as it seems do the media and indeed the government are getting confused over what causes something and what is the reason for it?

Although often used interchangeably there is actually an important difference so this isn’t just semantics.

Cause is the direct effect, whilst the reason is the more nuanced motivation that lies behind it.

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

NE14T 01 Aug 23 1.11pm
Wisbech Would you support banks if they were allowed to close accounts of customers because of their left wing/ liberal views or because for example they were Remainers? I sincerely hope not but that’s where your views inevitably take us. The beatings will stop when morale improves.

NE14T

01 Aug 23 1.11pm

Wisbech

Would you support banks if they were allowed to close accounts of customers because of their left wing/ liberal views or because for example they were Remainers?

I sincerely hope not but that’s where your views inevitably take us.

The beatings will stop when morale improves.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.17pm
Originally posted by georgenorman It's like arguing with a parrot with tourette's syndrome. If only arguing with you was possible! All I ever do in trying to respond to your insult laden invectives is to patiently try to point out your errors of fact. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.17pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

It's like arguing with a parrot with tourette's syndrome.

If only arguing with you was possible!

All I ever do in trying to respond to your insult laden invectives is to patiently try to point out your errors of fact.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.23pm
Originally posted by NE14T Wisbech Would you support banks if they were allowed to close accounts of customers because of their left wing/ liberal views or because for example they were Remainers? I sincerely hope not but that’s where your views inevitably take us. If they were PEPs whose views were regarded as potentially damaging their bottom line then of course I would. The views themselves are not, and never have been, the issue. It’s the assessment of whether the person holding them either costs the bank too much time and money to make their account profitable or if knowledge of the bank serving them might damage their reputation. If I was a bank I would not offer an account to Corbyn. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 01 Aug 23 1.23pm

Originally posted by NE14T

Wisbech

Would you support banks if they were allowed to close accounts of customers because of their left wing/ liberal views or because for example they were Remainers?

I sincerely hope not but that’s where your views inevitably take us.

If they were PEPs whose views were regarded as potentially damaging their bottom line then of course I would. The views themselves are not, and never have been, the issue. It’s the assessment of whether the person holding them either costs the bank too much time and money to make their account profitable or if knowledge of the bank serving them might damage their reputation.

If I was a bank I would not offer an account to Corbyn.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Aug 23 1.30pm
What grates is the imbeciles at Coutts and Natwest are partially funded by the taxpayer. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Aug 23 1.30pm

What grates is the imbeciles at Coutts and Natwest are partially funded by the taxpayer.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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