Calais migrant trouble

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Kermit8 Hevon 31 Jul 15 12.54pm
Quote npn at 31 Jul 2015 10.19am Quote serial thriller at 31 Jul 2015 1.02am I genuinely don't believe that we are that far from seeing a policy of murder being pursuited by the British government towards these people. Cameron has channeled the prominent animal terminology which the media have been using, while government policy rests uncomfortably between non-intervention (which will lead to thousands of deaths as the winter months approach) and aggressive action (sending in the army, whatever that's supposed to achieve). As has been said before ad infinitum, the referencing of human beings as animals has been a precursor to murder throughout history, be it the Jews under the Nazis, through the Rwandan genocide and Indians in the Raj to the Slave trade and everything in between. What's equally as concerning is that these people are now citizenless, without defence should a state that they don't belong to and have never set foot in decide to exterminate them. I think we're finding ourselves at a real tipping point, because there are now more displaced people in the world than ever before, and that number only looks set to increase as wealth inequality rises, climate change continues to take effect and resources become more and more scarce. In fact it could be one of the defining issues of the century, and it is incumbent on the leader's of the world to find a solution to the problem which doesn't merely involve large-scale temporary resettlement or, worse still, the deaths of millions of the poorest people in the world. I'm putting that level of hyperbole down to it being posted at 1 am so you were clearly tired and emotional and/or drunk Meanwhile, I'm still keen to find out WHY these people will risk everything to leave France and get here. Leaving Eritrea etc for Europe I get, but why risk your lives to get to Britain? What's the draw? Particularly given the fact that the levels of benefit are not vastly different. I saw some news footage this morning of a bloke helping a kid (presumably son/daughter) over the fence - the child could have been no more than 7 or 8, and he's taking him/her to climb into/under a truck or train and potentially get killed to get to the UK rather than France or any of the other safe countries they'd passed through to get that far - WHY?? The news that in London you don't get either spat at, shouted at or beaten up for having a different colour skin or because you dress differently has travelled. A safe haven in short. We should be proud of that. Edited by Kermit8 (31 Jul 2015 12.55pm) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 31 Jul 15 12.54pm

Quote npn at 31 Jul 2015 10.19am

Quote serial thriller at 31 Jul 2015 1.02am

I genuinely don't believe that we are that far from seeing a policy of murder being pursuited by the British government towards these people. Cameron has channeled the prominent animal terminology which the media have been using, while government policy rests uncomfortably between non-intervention (which will lead to thousands of deaths as the winter months approach) and aggressive action (sending in the army, whatever that's supposed to achieve).

As has been said before ad infinitum, the referencing of human beings as animals has been a precursor to murder throughout history, be it the Jews under the Nazis, through the Rwandan genocide and Indians in the Raj to the Slave trade and everything in between. What's equally as concerning is that these people are now citizenless, without defence should a state that they don't belong to and have never set foot in decide to exterminate them.

I think we're finding ourselves at a real tipping point, because there are now more displaced people in the world than ever before, and that number only looks set to increase as wealth inequality rises, climate change continues to take effect and resources become more and more scarce. In fact it could be one of the defining issues of the century, and it is incumbent on the leader's of the world to find a solution to the problem which doesn't merely involve large-scale temporary resettlement or, worse still, the deaths of millions of the poorest people in the world.

I'm putting that level of hyperbole down to it being posted at 1 am so you were clearly tired and emotional and/or drunk

Meanwhile, I'm still keen to find out WHY these people will risk everything to leave France and get here. Leaving Eritrea etc for Europe I get, but why risk your lives to get to Britain? What's the draw? Particularly given the fact that the levels of benefit are not vastly different.

I saw some news footage this morning of a bloke helping a kid (presumably son/daughter) over the fence - the child could have been no more than 7 or 8, and he's taking him/her to climb into/under a truck or train and potentially get killed to get to the UK rather than France or any of the other safe countries they'd passed through to get that far - WHY??

The news that in London you don't get either spat at, shouted at or beaten up for having a different colour skin or because you dress differently has travelled. A safe haven in short. We should be proud of that.

Edited by Kermit8 (31 Jul 2015 12.55pm)

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chris123 hove actually 31 Jul 15 12.58pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 31 Jul 2015 12.49pm There hasn't been this level of immigration since 1066. Back then, of course, it was called an invasion. The Norman's didn't get in via our tunnel though did they!
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chris123

hove actually 31 Jul 15 12.58pm

Quote Cucking Funt at 31 Jul 2015 12.49pm

There hasn't been this level of immigration since 1066. Back then, of course, it was called an invasion.

The Norman's didn't get in via our tunnel though did they!

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Kermit8 Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.03pm
250,000 Belgians invaded in 1915 and had the cheek to set up their own bit of official Belgian land in Northumberland. 'Up, Up and away in my beautiful Walloon.' - that song was written about the episode. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.03pm

250,000 Belgians invaded in 1915 and had the cheek to set up their own bit of official Belgian land in Northumberland.

'Up, Up and away in my beautiful Walloon.' - that song was written about the episode.

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johnfirewall 31 Jul 15 1.08pm
Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 12.54pm The news that in London you don't get either spat at, shouted at or beaten up for having a different colour skin or because you dress differently has travelled. A safe haven in short. We should be proud of that. I fail to see that collective mentality over here. Most are simply forced in to tolerance. Take all the pride you want but it's not free.
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johnfirewall

31 Jul 15 1.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 12.54pm

I fail to see that collective mentality over here. Most are simply forced in to tolerance.

Take all the pride you want but it's not free.

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Kermit8 Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.25pm
Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.08pm Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 12.54pm The news that in London you don't get either spat at, shouted at or beaten up for having a different colour skin or because you dress differently has travelled. A safe haven in short. We should be proud of that. I fail to see that collective mentality over here. Most are simply forced in to tolerance. Take all the pride you want but it's not free. They shouldn't tolerate it. London is probably more integrated and relatively friendlier to overseas refugee types than any other major city in Europe. And it offers opportunities for some kind of life even if it means cleaning tube tunnels at 3am for a living. If I were a refugee/migrant afraid of racism or violence toward me because of who I was London is exactly where I would be heading for safety. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.25pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 12.54pm

I fail to see that collective mentality over here. Most are simply forced in to tolerance.

Take all the pride you want but it's not free.

They shouldn't tolerate it.

London is probably more integrated and relatively friendlier to overseas refugee types than any other major city in Europe. And it offers opportunities for some kind of life even if it means cleaning tube tunnels at 3am for a living.

If I were a refugee/migrant afraid of racism or violence toward me because of who I was London is exactly where I would be heading for safety.

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johnfirewall 31 Jul 15 1.25pm
Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services. [Link] I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent.
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johnfirewall

31 Jul 15 1.25pm

Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services.

[Link]

I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent.

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Kermit8 Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.31pm
Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services. [Link] I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent. A lot of the kids start their trek without their families in tow for a variety of reasons so it probably wasn't their ma or pa or uncle helping them over. Most of the poor sods are thousands of miles away from what was once their home or fleeing a rotten future existence or possibly ex-child soldiers. One thing is for sure - they need help. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.31pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm

Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services.

[Link]

A lot of the kids start their trek without their families in tow for a variety of reasons so it probably wasn't their ma or pa or uncle helping them over. Most of the poor sods are thousands of miles away from what was once their home or fleeing a rotten future existence or possibly ex-child soldiers.

One thing is for sure - they need help.

Big chest and massive boobs

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johnfirewall 31 Jul 15 1.33pm
Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm London is probably more integrated and relatively friendlier to overseas refugee types than any other major city in Europe. And it offers opportunities for some kind of life even if it means cleaning tube tunnels at 3am for a living. While that's a scenario we would all endorse it's incredibly optimistic. We don't have the resources to render these migrants stable enough, even given a few years to end up doing legitimate albeit menial jobs because this would require housing them as well. Perhaps they all genuinely want a job but don't realise you can't just walk in to the job centre. Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.34pm)
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johnfirewall

31 Jul 15 1.33pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm

While that's a scenario we would all endorse it's incredibly optimistic.

We don't have the resources to render these migrants stable enough, even given a few years to end up doing legitimate albeit menial jobs because this would require housing them as well. Perhaps they all genuinely want a job but don't realise you can't just walk in to the job centre.

Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.34pm)

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johnfirewall 31 Jul 15 1.36pm
Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services. [Link] I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent. A lot of the kids start their trek without their families in tow for a variety of reasons so it probably wasn't their ma or pa or uncle helping them over. Most of the poor sods are thousands of miles away from what was once their home or fleeing a rotten future existence or possibly ex-child soldiers. One thing is for sure - they need help. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? Again every one falling under the absurd lefty 'better life' umbrella for accepting migrants. We all want a better life. People up north want to move to London for a better life. People come in legally from destitute parts of Europe but the fact that others have jumped on a lorry because France wasn't very welcoming is no indication that they left hellish conditions in their native country, not does it make it right. Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.49pm)
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johnfirewall

31 Jul 15 1.36pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm

Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services.

[Link]

One thing is for sure - they need help.

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

Again every one falling under the absurd lefty 'better life' umbrella for accepting migrants.

We all want a better life. People up north want to move to London for a better life. People come in legally from destitute parts of Europe but the fact that others have jumped on a lorry because France wasn't very welcoming is no indication that they left hellish conditions in their native country, not does it make it right.

Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.49pm)

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Kermit8 Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.43pm
Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.36pm Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services. [Link] I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent. A lot of the kids start their trek without their families in tow for a variety of reasons so it probably wasn't their ma or pa or uncle helping them over. Most of the poor sods are thousands of miles away from what was once their home or fleeing a rotten future existence or possibly ex-child soldiers. One thing is for sure - they need help. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? You've lost me. Unfortunately, kids are used in some conflicts in third world countries and places like Syria as you well know. Some are also conscripted in their early teens. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.43pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.36pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm

Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services.

[Link]

One thing is for sure - they need help.

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

You've lost me. Unfortunately, kids are used in some conflicts in third world countries and places like Syria as you well know. Some are also conscripted in their early teens.

Big chest and massive boobs

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johnfirewall 31 Jul 15 1.53pm
Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.43pm Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.36pm Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services. [Link] I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent. A lot of the kids start their trek without their families in tow for a variety of reasons so it probably wasn't their ma or pa or uncle helping them over. Most of the poor sods are thousands of miles away from what was once their home or fleeing a rotten future existence or possibly ex-child soldiers. One thing is for sure - they need help. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? You've lost me. Unfortunately, kids are used in some conflicts in third world countries and places like Syria as you well know. Some are also conscripted in their early teens. Yes I undertand that but please see my edit. You're looking at the extreme end and ignoring the fact that most haven't even come from such places, lumping them all in together. Sadly this mnetality fuels the backlash and means we either let all or no one in. Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.54pm)
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johnfirewall

31 Jul 15 1.53pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.43pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.36pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm

Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services.

[Link]

One thing is for sure - they need help.

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

You've lost me. Unfortunately, kids are used in some conflicts in third world countries and places like Syria as you well know. Some are also conscripted in their early teens.

Yes I undertand that but please see my edit. You're looking at the extreme end and ignoring the fact that most haven't even come from such places, lumping them all in together.

Sadly this mnetality fuels the backlash and means we either let all or no one in.

Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.54pm)

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Kermit8 Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.56pm
Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.53pm Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.43pm Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.36pm Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services. [Link] I've got to view this as helping your kid over the fence and hoping to get yourself in later legally because as bad as a makeshift camp in Calais must be, it can't be that bad to want to send your a kid out to the streets of Kent. A lot of the kids start their trek without their families in tow for a variety of reasons so it probably wasn't their ma or pa or uncle helping them over. Most of the poor sods are thousands of miles away from what was once their home or fleeing a rotten future existence or possibly ex-child soldiers. One thing is for sure - they need help. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? You've lost me. Unfortunately, kids are used in some conflicts in third world countries and places like Syria as you well know. Some are also conscripted in their early teens. Yes I undertand that but please see my edit. You're looking at the extreme end and ignoring the fact that most haven't even come from such places, lumping them all in together. Sadly this mnetality fuels the backlash and means we either let all or no one in. Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.54pm) It doesn't really matter how they got here if they are kids still. Help them first and worry about their place of birth later. Who on earth would turn their back on a child in need of assistance? Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 31 Jul 15 1.56pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.53pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.43pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.36pm

Quote Kermit8 at 31 Jul 2015 1.31pm

Quote johnfirewall at 31 Jul 2015 1.25pm

Several hundred unaccompanied minors being looked after by Kent Social Services.

[Link]

One thing is for sure - they need help.

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

You've lost me. Unfortunately, kids are used in some conflicts in third world countries and places like Syria as you well know. Some are also conscripted in their early teens.

Yes I undertand that but please see my edit. You're looking at the extreme end and ignoring the fact that most haven't even come from such places, lumping them all in together.

Sadly this mnetality fuels the backlash and means we either let all or no one in.

Edited by johnfirewall (31 Jul 2015 1.54pm)

It doesn't really matter how they got here if they are kids still. Help them first and worry about their place of birth later. Who on earth would turn their back on a child in need of assistance?

Big chest and massive boobs

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