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elgrande bedford 13 Mar 17 4.33pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Do you wake up in the night after nightmares about islamic extremists? I don't but I do wonder where all the displaced fighters of IS will go once the iraq forces defeat them. Because how many battle hardened Jihadists will find their way back Blighty. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 13 Mar 17 4.33pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you wake up in the night after nightmares about islamic extremists?

I don't but I do wonder where all the displaced fighters of IS will go once the iraq forces defeat them.
Because how many battle hardened Jihadists will find their way back Blighty.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande bedford 13 Mar 17 4.37pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well we might, because we could become very dependent on trade agreements, defined by the EU. Economic leverage is a far better method of exerting political pressure for favour on a country, than political relationships are. Its the gunboat diplomacy of the modern age. 11 million german car workers depend on our orders,they aren't going to jepodise their jobs,Merkel would be shot. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 13 Mar 17 4.37pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well we might, because we could become very dependent on trade agreements, defined by the EU. Economic leverage is a far better method of exerting political pressure for favour on a country, than political relationships are.

Its the gunboat diplomacy of the modern age.

11 million german car workers depend on our orders,they aren't going to jepodise their jobs,Merkel would be shot.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Mar 17 5.04pm
Originally posted by elgrande 11 million german car workers depend on our orders,they aren't going to jepodise their jobs,Merkel would be shot. To an extent, but 11m German car workers aren't dependent on the UK orders. A percentage of that work force is (assuming the German car manufacturing cannot make up the short fall through the EU and EU trade partners). A drop in manufacturing orders from the UK will probably put a percentage of that work force at risk. Plus there are 150 BMW dealerships in the UK, not to mention that BMW represents a large degree of employment in car manufacturing and sale in the UK - If any UK German deal affected the car industry, they'd lose their jobs, and its likely they'd also be the first to lose their jobs. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Mar 17 5.04pm

Originally posted by elgrande

11 million german car workers depend on our orders,they aren't going to jepodise their jobs,Merkel would be shot.

To an extent, but 11m German car workers aren't dependent on the UK orders. A percentage of that work force is (assuming the German car manufacturing cannot make up the short fall through the EU and EU trade partners). A drop in manufacturing orders from the UK will probably put a percentage of that work force at risk.

Plus there are 150 BMW dealerships in the UK, not to mention that BMW represents a large degree of employment in car manufacturing and sale in the UK - If any UK German deal affected the car industry, they'd lose their jobs, and its likely they'd also be the first to lose their jobs.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Mar 17 5.11pm
Originally posted by elgrande I don't but I do wonder where all the displaced fighters of IS will go once the iraq forces defeat them. Because how many battle hardened Jihadists will find their way back Blighty. Syria, I suspect. Iraq isn't likely to be 'too friendly' once they've pushed IS over the borders, and there aren't too many options for crossing the border in that region. But we really do need to identify these people, eliminate them where feasible and lawful in Syria and arrest those who return. It may even be worth offering an reduced sentence / amnesty situation for those who produce themselves upon return and provide information on IS and other British Jihadists (with reduced sentence / amnesty / pardons based on the quality of information, arrests and convictions). The key will be identifying as many of these people as possible, especially those who we don't catch upon return. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Mar 17 5.11pm

Originally posted by elgrande

I don't but I do wonder where all the displaced fighters of IS will go once the iraq forces defeat them.
Because how many battle hardened Jihadists will find their way back Blighty.

Syria, I suspect. Iraq isn't likely to be 'too friendly' once they've pushed IS over the borders, and there aren't too many options for crossing the border in that region.

But we really do need to identify these people, eliminate them where feasible and lawful in Syria and arrest those who return.

It may even be worth offering an reduced sentence / amnesty situation for those who produce themselves upon return and provide information on IS and other British Jihadists (with reduced sentence / amnesty / pardons based on the quality of information, arrests and convictions).

The key will be identifying as many of these people as possible, especially those who we don't catch upon return.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Hrolf The Ganger 13 Mar 17 6.04pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Do you wake up in the night after nightmares about islamic extremists? No, because you told me that there are vast armies of swastika tattoed skinheads roaming the country to protect us.

Hrolf The Ganger

13 Mar 17 6.04pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you wake up in the night after nightmares about islamic extremists?

No, because you told me that there are vast armies of swastika tattoed skinheads roaming the country to protect us.

elgrande bedford 13 Mar 17 6.49pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger No, because you told me that there are vast armies of swastika tattoed skinheads roaming the country to protect us. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 13 Mar 17 6.49pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No, because you told me that there are vast armies of swastika tattoed skinheads roaming the country to protect us.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

davenotamonkey 13 Mar 17 7.43pm
...and back to the Lords it goes, both amendments soundly defeated. [Link] Another round of ping-pong will end the Lords, in my opinion. They wouldn't dare.

davenotamonkey

13 Mar 17 7.43pm

...and back to the Lords it goes, both amendments soundly defeated.

[Link]

Another round of ping-pong will end the Lords, in my opinion. They wouldn't dare.

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Mar 17 7.56pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey ...and back to the Lords it goes, both amendments soundly defeated. [Link] Another round of ping-pong will end the Lords, in my opinion. They wouldn't dare. It may not end the Lords as they can only send a bill back twice but it will certainly strengthen the resolve to reform them further. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 13 Mar 17 7.56pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

...and back to the Lords it goes, both amendments soundly defeated.

[Link]

Another round of ping-pong will end the Lords, in my opinion. They wouldn't dare.

It may not end the Lords as they can only send a bill back twice but it will certainly strengthen the resolve to reform them further.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

matt_himself Matataland 13 Mar 17 9.22pm
[Link] And Diane Abbott had a migraine... "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 13 Mar 17 9.22pm

[Link]

And Diane Abbott had a migraine...

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

davenotamonkey 13 Mar 17 9.47pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt It may not end the Lords as they can only send a bill back twice but it will certainly strengthen the resolve to reform them further. Perhaps I'm wrong, but there's no limit to the ping-pong, beyond the exercise of the Parliamentary Act after one year

davenotamonkey

13 Mar 17 9.47pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

It may not end the Lords as they can only send a bill back twice but it will certainly strengthen the resolve to reform them further.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there's no limit to the ping-pong, beyond the exercise of the Parliamentary Act after one year

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Mar 17 10.00pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Perhaps I'm wrong, but there's no limit to the ping-pong, beyond the exercise of the Parliamentary Act after one year Apologies. You're right. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 13 Mar 17 10.00pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there's no limit to the ping-pong, beyond the exercise of the Parliamentary Act after one year

Apologies. You're right.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

leifandersonshair Newport 14 Mar 17 8.05pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 If you are going to label the Mail 'fascist', you might as well call the Guardian 'communist'. You seem to be more obsessed with communists and communism than Joe McCarthy. Perhaps more of an exaggeration is to call the Mail a 'newspaper' as opposed to a right wing hate magazine

leifandersonshair

Newport 14 Mar 17 8.05pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

If you are going to label the Mail 'fascist', you might as well call the Guardian 'communist'.

You seem to be more obsessed with communists and communism than Joe McCarthy.

Perhaps more of an exaggeration is to call the Mail a 'newspaper' as opposed to a right wing hate magazine

hedgehog50 Croydon 14 Mar 17 10.15pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair You seem to be more obsessed with communists and communism than Joe McCarthy. Perhaps more of an exaggeration is to call the Mail a 'newspaper' as opposed to a right wing hate magazine Merely showing the absurdity of calling the Mail fascist, ie: just as absurd as calling the Guardian communist. Does make me laugh how you left wing sweetness and light people condemn the likes of the Mail as a 'hate magazine', while in the next breath make excuses for some nut job real hate organisation that you won't hear criticism of because it is anti-Israel, anti-West or Islamic based. Oh yes, and I do hate communism - don't you? Edited by hedgehog50 (14 Mar 2017 10.25pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 14 Mar 17 10.15pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

You seem to be more obsessed with communists and communism than Joe McCarthy.

Perhaps more of an exaggeration is to call the Mail a 'newspaper' as opposed to a right wing hate magazine

Merely showing the absurdity of calling the Mail fascist, ie: just as absurd as calling the Guardian communist.
Does make me laugh how you left wing sweetness and light people condemn the likes of the Mail as a 'hate magazine', while in the next breath make excuses for some nut job real hate organisation that you won't hear criticism of because it is anti-Israel, anti-West or Islamic based.
Oh yes, and I do hate communism - don't you?

Edited by hedgehog50 (14 Mar 2017 10.25pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

legaleagle 15 Mar 17 8.34am
You shouldn't generalise so much...there are plenty on the "left" who abhor the excesses of say Hamas, Assad, Netanyahu and the Daily Mail. What is rather worrying is when those on the right,who are quick to abhor say Hamas,have difficulty when it comes to seeing why terming the Supreme Court judges who merely upheld traditional English law,as "enemies of the people" has echoes of both a Hitleresque and a Stalinesque attitude towards democratic norms and the rule of law.. Edited by legaleagle (15 Mar 2017 8.35am)

legaleagle

15 Mar 17 8.34am

You shouldn't generalise so much...there are plenty on the "left" who abhor the excesses of say Hamas, Assad, Netanyahu and the Daily Mail.

What is rather worrying is when those on the right,who are quick to abhor say Hamas,have difficulty when it comes to seeing why terming the Supreme Court judges who merely upheld traditional English law,as "enemies of the people" has echoes of both a Hitleresque and a Stalinesque attitude towards democratic norms and the rule of law..

Edited by legaleagle (15 Mar 2017 8.35am)

leifandersonshair Newport 15 Mar 17 1.06pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Merely showing the absurdity of calling the Mail fascist, ie: just as absurd as calling the Guardian communist. Does make me laugh how you left wing sweetness and light people condemn the likes of the Mail as a 'hate magazine', while in the next breath make excuses for some nut job real hate organisation that you won't hear criticism of because it is anti-Israel, anti-West or Islamic based. Oh yes, and I do hate communism - don't you? Edited by hedgehog50 (14 Mar 2017 10.25pm) Ah, I'm a 'left wing sweetness and light person' am I? Fair enough. Is the Mail, in your opinion, a generally unbiased, useful news source? Or a silly right wing tabloid with a strong anti-immigration bias? And for the record- no, I don't hate communism. An imperfect system, about as flawed as capitalism in fact. A healthy mix of socialism and capitalism, tipping towards socialism, is my preference. And I will happily condemn any hate groups, left or right, Islamic or not. Such as the Mail, with it's 'enemies of the people' jibe at the judiciary. How dare they uphold the law!

leifandersonshair

Newport 15 Mar 17 1.06pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Edited by hedgehog50 (14 Mar 2017 10.25pm)

Ah, I'm a 'left wing sweetness and light person' am I? Fair enough.

Is the Mail, in your opinion, a generally unbiased, useful news source? Or a silly right wing tabloid with a strong anti-immigration bias?

And for the record- no, I don't hate communism. An imperfect system, about as flawed as capitalism in fact. A healthy mix of socialism and capitalism, tipping towards socialism, is my preference.

And I will happily condemn any hate groups, left or right, Islamic or not. Such as the Mail, with it's 'enemies of the people' jibe at the judiciary. How dare they uphold the law!

jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Mar 17 1.51pm
Whilst the Mail has many opinions and a bias that actually dominates its news, rather than opinion coverage, my principle problem with the Daily Mail is that its poorly written, poorly presented and exists solely to flatter its audience into thinking they're not reading a tabloid newspaper. #s**newspaperforpsuedomiddleclasssemiliteratewankers It is to journalism, what Dan Brown is to literature. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Mar 17 1.51pm

Whilst the Mail has many opinions and a bias that actually dominates its news, rather than opinion coverage, my principle problem with the Daily Mail is that its poorly written, poorly presented and exists solely to flatter its audience into thinking they're not reading a tabloid newspaper.

#s***newspaperforpsuedomiddleclasssemiliteratewan*kers

It is to journalism, what Dan Brown is to literature.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Mar 17 1.53pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger No, because you told me that there are vast armies of swastika tattoed skinheads roaming the country to protect us. I'm more worried about the latter, although largely on the basis that I'm more likely to run into them in a pub. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Mar 17 1.53pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No, because you told me that there are vast armies of swastika tattoed skinheads roaming the country to protect us.

I'm more worried about the latter, although largely on the basis that I'm more likely to run into them in a pub.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Mar 17 1.58pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt It may not end the Lords as they can only send a bill back twice but it will certainly strengthen the resolve to reform them further. Sadly this is probably true, when the Lords actually do their job, then the tendency seems to be to call for reform. The Lords only returned it with 'comments' that were perfectly reasonable. The problem seems to be that having now narrowly won the Brexit referendum, a significant percentage of the leave campaign seem to think that's sufficient to achieve that exit, irrespective of the costs or terms. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Mar 17 1.58pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

It may not end the Lords as they can only send a bill back twice but it will certainly strengthen the resolve to reform them further.

Sadly this is probably true, when the Lords actually do their job, then the tendency seems to be to call for reform. The Lords only returned it with 'comments' that were perfectly reasonable.

The problem seems to be that having now narrowly won the Brexit referendum, a significant percentage of the leave campaign seem to think that's sufficient to achieve that exit, irrespective of the costs or terms.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 15 Mar 17 2.08pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Oh yes, and I do hate communism - don't you? Edited by hedgehog50 (14 Mar 2017 10.25pm) Depends on what you mean by Communism. The Soviet and Sino tyranny are horrors of the 20th century on a par with the Nazi and Fascist states. But its a slim argument that they were even really remotely interested in achieving Communism, but rather about instigating a change of the ruling elite. If you just swap the 'capitalist / imperialist powers' for the 'Party' all you're achieving is renaming those with absolute power. Really, Soviet Communism is really just an atheist religion, in which the Party Chairman is a medival pope, with a different gospel of the truth protected by an inquistional body to root out and purge heretics. You can't just change the names of the oppressors, you have to deal with the situations of power that creates oppression, which means undermining your own power to control. Its where democracy kind of gets it right - It weakens the power of authority. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 15 Mar 17 2.08pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Oh yes, and I do hate communism - don't you?

Edited by hedgehog50 (14 Mar 2017 10.25pm)

Depends on what you mean by Communism. The Soviet and Sino tyranny are horrors of the 20th century on a par with the Nazi and Fascist states. But its a slim argument that they were even really remotely interested in achieving Communism, but rather about instigating a change of the ruling elite.

If you just swap the 'capitalist / imperialist powers' for the 'Party' all you're achieving is renaming those with absolute power. Really, Soviet Communism is really just an atheist religion, in which the Party Chairman is a medival pope, with a different gospel of the truth protected by an inquistional body to root out and purge heretics.

You can't just change the names of the oppressors, you have to deal with the situations of power that creates oppression, which means undermining your own power to control. Its where democracy kind of gets it right - It weakens the power of authority.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

hedgehog50 Croydon 15 Mar 17 2.18pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair Ah, I'm a 'left wing sweetness and light person' am I? Fair enough. Is the Mail, in your opinion, a generally unbiased, useful news source? Or a silly right wing tabloid with a strong anti-immigration bias? And for the record- no, I don't hate communism. An imperfect system, about as flawed as capitalism in fact. A healthy mix of socialism and capitalism, tipping towards socialism, is my preference. And I will happily condemn any hate groups, left or right, Islamic or not. Such as the Mail, with it's 'enemies of the people' jibe at the judiciary. How dare they uphold the law! Of course the Mail is biased towards the Conservative Party. No newspapers are useful news sources anymore – they are always out of date compared to the internet, radio etc. I guess you could call it ‘ silly right wing tabloid with a strong anti-immigration bias’ just as you could call the Guardian ‘a silly left wing broadsheet with a strong pro-immigration bias’. Well you should hate communism. To not hate it is like saying I don’t hate fascism, or I don’t hate slavery. ‘About as flawed as capitalism’ is just nonsense, it is of great magnitudes more flawed than capitalism, just read accounts of life under the ‘system’. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 15 Mar 17 2.18pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Ah, I'm a 'left wing sweetness and light person' am I? Fair enough.

Is the Mail, in your opinion, a generally unbiased, useful news source? Or a silly right wing tabloid with a strong anti-immigration bias?

And for the record- no, I don't hate communism. An imperfect system, about as flawed as capitalism in fact. A healthy mix of socialism and capitalism, tipping towards socialism, is my preference.

And I will happily condemn any hate groups, left or right, Islamic or not. Such as the Mail, with it's 'enemies of the people' jibe at the judiciary. How dare they uphold the law!

Of course the Mail is biased towards the Conservative Party. No newspapers are useful news sources anymore – they are always out of date compared to the internet, radio etc. I guess you could call it ‘ silly right wing tabloid with a strong anti-immigration bias’ just as you could call the Guardian ‘a silly left wing broadsheet with a strong pro-immigration bias’.
Well you should hate communism. To not hate it is like saying I don’t hate fascism, or I don’t hate slavery. ‘About as flawed as capitalism’ is just nonsense, it is of great magnitudes more flawed than capitalism, just read accounts of life under the ‘system’.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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