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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
All this about 'ambition' and 'making a statement' confuses me. Have we been given special permission to ignore FFP rules then? I must've missed that. Attracting a glamour name to the dugout might make us more attractive to players, but if we can't afford them then it's academic really. Presuming we'll be playing in both the Premier league and the real world next season, we will once again have a lower mid table budget at best. The question is how best to utilise that budget. We know for sure that anti football generally gets the points but is painful to sit through. We have no reason to think playing more openly will work but may well have reason to risk it anyway. What we know for sure is off the table is a big, glamorous managerial signing unless that man is happy to work with what we can afford, and if Benitez proved one thing at Newcastle, it's that a champions league winning manager doesn't make a lot of difference if the players are very average. Exactly. Benitez ultimately left Newcastle because Ashley wouldn’t fund the expansive players he craved to take them up a level. What makes us think Parish would do any different
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Originally posted by Gribbo
...or Frank De Boer for example. That went well. Took the words out of my mouth.
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Originally posted by alexdyoung87
All of this is manager talk is speculation. We don’t even know for sure that Roy is going to leave at the end of the season. He ma y yet sign a two year contract! There’s nothing wrong with aiming high and it seems people are so fixated and bound by a notion that we cannot afford a type of manager without actually knowing our financial situation in detail. Furthermore, who’s to say that Benítez, for example, wouldn’t be willing to adapt his salary if it means managing in the Premier League again? I raise the Leeds situation again. If their owners had the mentality of ‘we’re in the Championship so we’d never be able to get/afford Bielsa’, then they never would have approached him and I’m pretty certain wouldn’t be a top ten Premier League club right now! Dream big people! NOT, if RH signs a 2 year deal i wont
This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise. |
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
All this about 'ambition' and 'making a statement' confuses me. Have we been given special permission to ignore FFP rules then? I must've missed that. Attracting a glamour name to the dugout might make us more attractive to players, but if we can't afford them then it's academic really. Presuming we'll be playing in both the Premier league and the real world next season, we will once again have a lower mid table budget at best. The question is how best to utilise that budget. We know for sure that anti football generally gets the points but is painful to sit through. We have no reason to think playing more openly will work but may well have reason to risk it anyway. What we know for sure is off the table is a big, glamorous managerial signing unless that man is happy to work with what we can afford, and if Benitez proved one thing at Newcastle, it's that a champions league winning manager doesn't make a lot of difference if the players are very average. The last time we went for a big name ended in disaster and administration. A certain Terry Venables after Euro 96.
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Originally posted by Painter
The last time we went for a big name ended in disaster and administration. A certain Terry Venables after Euro 96. Remember it well. A good example of how you're not just looking for the best manager you can get, but the best fit for the club at that time. Not always the same thing.
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Originally posted by alexdyoung87
All of this is manager talk is speculation. We don’t even know for sure that Roy is going to leave at the end of the season. He may yet sign a two year contract! There’s nothing wrong with aiming high and it seems people are so fixated and bound by a notion that we cannot afford a type of manager without actually knowing our financial situation in detail. Furthermore, who’s to say that Benítez, for example, wouldn’t be willing to adapt his salary if it means managing in the Premier League again? I raise the Leeds situation again. If their owners had the mentality of ‘we’re in the Championship so we’d never be able to get/afford Bielsa’, then they never would have approached him and I’m pretty certain wouldn’t be a top ten Premier League club right now! Dream big people! Agreed that we don't know the finances in detail, but we know the headlines. The club release financial reports every year. There is no guessing involved when it comes to understanding our general place in the economic pecking order.
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
Agreed that we don't know the finances in detail, but we know the headlines. The club release financial reports every year. There is no guessing involved when it comes to understanding our general place in the economic pecking order. 100% agree for those who dont understand it, in a nutshell 2014 - 2018 - Broke even in the PL we are looking for freebies or cheap young players this summer...if the owners would personally put in £50m for transfers we would be fine with FFP...lets see what happens.
‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway |
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Originally posted by braunstoneagle
100% agree for those who dont understand it, in a nutshell 2014 - 2018 - Broke even in the PL we are looking for freebies or cheap young players this summer...if the owners would personally put in £50m for transfers we would be fine with FFP...lets see what happens. The limit of what an owner can put in under ffp is in the neighbourhood of £100m I think, and the Americans have stuck in about £50m already, so you would be bang on. Very happy to have this clarified by more knowledgeable folk, but I certainly read the £100m threshold in the regs themselves, which one can find online. What I'm less clear about is whether the club would have to pay back the £100m in the end. I believe they would, so even if the Americans are happy to spend the money, its a one off and a debt we must carry and repay. No wonder the academy matters so much. Edited by TheBigToePunt (17 Apr 2021 10.21pm)
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Originally posted by Ali_Campbell
I just can’t see it myself. I agree we need to dream but the finances just do allow me to think too far ahead. We have had a net spend of +4m since Roy has been here and despite out best efforts to balance the books, we unfortunately lost 54m 86p out of every £1 we earn goes on wages. Even with the high earners leaving this summer, there does not seem an awful lot of room for transfer fees and wages. Plus, we will need to also pay off the debt. Unlike other owners, wolves, West Ham, Fulham, leeds etc... who are putting transfer funds into the club, our investers are looking for the club to run itself. Hopefully making some profit from the academy. Simon Jordan said it perfectly on talkSPORT, unless the owners change the direction of the club, for me it does not really matter who is in charge, they will need to work miracles with freebies, PL cast aways, championship reserve goalkeepers. Change the direction from what to what? We’ve had be incredibly stringent with our finances in order to prioritise building our infrastructure over recent seasons, including the present, for the overall long term gain. This includes the brand-spanking new academy, upgrading the stadium and (I assume/hope!) a new stand. I suppose this is the difference between us and other clubs who already have their infrastructure in place and can look to spend larger sums of money on players whilst we’ve been scraping around for loan and freebie deals such as McCarthy and Butland. That said, we did splash £20 million in Eze and there were strong reports of a £25 million bid for Sarr only in October. The direction of the club, I believe, will be to focus on seeing fruit from the academy through effective, top quality coaching. It might however mean we need to sell some products along the way for the sake of the bigger picture. If we can bring in a top quality coach to do that and oversee the process then great. I’m not convinced the likes of Dyche or Howe would be good enough to oversee such a fragile moment in the club’s history.
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Originally posted by Ali_Campbell
I just can’t see it myself. I agree we need to dream but the finances just do allow me to think too far ahead. We have had a net spend of +4m since Roy has been here and despite out best efforts to balance the books, we unfortunately lost 54m 86p out of every £1 we earn goes on wages. Even with the high earners leaving this summer, there does not seem an awful lot of room for transfer fees and wages. Plus, we will need to also pay off the debt. Unlike other owners, wolves, West Ham, Fulham, leeds etc... who are putting transfer funds into the club, our investers are looking for the club to run itself. Hopefully making some profit from the academy. Simon Jordan said it perfectly on talkSPORT, unless the owners change the direction of the club, for me it does not really matter who is in charge, they will need to work miracles with freebies, PL cast aways, championship reserve goalkeepers. The 86p thing must surely include the whole wage bill, ground staff,catering staff,security,first team,u23s, like everyone. If that's only the first team then our spend must be more than 86p. Wages are the biggest outlay in most businesses so its not that exceptional. Its cash flow I think is the key factor. Money in money out enabling debts to be serviced.
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Originally posted by Painter
Not so as the last time we went for a big name manager was the ex England manager Roy Hodgson and the time before that was ex England manager Sam Allardyce both of whom were successful here. Leaving aside Tony Pulis it was actually the small name managers like Holloway and Pardew that have been less than sucessful here so by that token we should be going for Jurgen Klopp or Pep Guardiola
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Originally posted by cryrst
The 86p thing must surely include the whole wage bill, ground staff,catering staff,security,first team,u23s, like everyone. If that's only the first team then our spend must be more than 86p. Wages are the biggest outlay in most businesses so its not that exceptional. Its cash flow I think is the key factor. Money in money out enabling debts to be serviced. It does
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Originally posted by alexdyoung87
Change the direction from what to what? We’ve had be incredibly stringent with our finances in order to prioritise building our infrastructure over recent seasons, including the present, for the overall long term gain. This includes the brand-spanking new academy, upgrading the stadium and (I assume/hope!) a new stand. I suppose this is the difference between us and other clubs who already have their infrastructure in place and can look to spend larger sums of money on players whilst we’ve been scraping around for loan and freebie deals such as McCarthy and Butland. That said, we did splash £20 million in Eze and there were strong reports of a £25 million bid for Sarr only in October. The direction of the club, I believe, will be to focus on seeing fruit from the academy through effective, top quality coaching. It might however mean we need to sell some products along the way for the sake of the bigger picture. If we can bring in a top quality coach to do that and oversee the process then great. I’m not convinced the likes of Dyche or Howe would be good enough to oversee such a fragile moment in the club’s history.
Dyche will stay at Burnley if he's given a reasonable transfer kitty by the club's new owners (the jury is out on that one) I wouldn't be too upset if Howe came. I reckon he'll have reflected on where he went wrong at Bournemouth and will address those shortcomings
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
The limit of what an owner can put in under ffp is in the neighbourhood of £100m I think, and the Americans have stuck in about £50m already, so you would be bang on. Very happy to have this clarified by more knowledgeable folk, but I certainly read the £100m threshold in the regs themselves, which one can find online. What I'm less clear about is whether the club would have to pay back the £100m in the end. I believe they would, so even if the Americans are happy to spend the money, its a one off and a debt we must carry and repay. No wonder the academy matters so much. Edited by TheBigToePunt (17 Apr 2021 10.21pm) like you said, im happy to be corrected by my understanding is that the owners could inject money via a share issue to overcome ffp, thats what usmanov (?) at everton seems to be doing. and i think that would circumvent ffp rules.
‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway |
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