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Coutts VS Nigel Farage


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Aug 23 6.07pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

How do they produce a watertight document proving they would suffer reputational damage by association with an account holder?

It's not the inference itself which would need to be watertight but the reasoning on why possible reputational damage would impact the bottom line and therefore not a risk the bank could accept

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Aug 23 6.20pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's not the inference itself which would need to be watertight but the reasoning on why possible reputational damage would impact the bottom line and therefore not a risk the bank could accept

That might work with arms dealers or drug smugglers but not with a political figure with whose opinions many people agree.

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Aug 23 6.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Speculation.

The current rules were never intended for vetting based on political persuasion.
Stopping that is the only amendment required, and one that would create a level playing field for any perceived risk.

They aren't being applied for vetting political persuasion. You are again confusing what causes something with the reason for it. His political views may be the basic cause of this, but they aren't the reason. If they had no impact on the need to supervise his account more strenuously then they would be ignored, just as yours and mine are. Alongside that is the marketing stance that the bank has adopted which has resulted in them deciding that their reputation might suffer by association with him.

I doubt though that the latter consideration played a significant role in the decision to close the account. More likely with his mortgage ending and a lack of substantial deposits, the costs of running his account outweighed the returns. Bottom line! Like every business.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Aug 23 6.27pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

That might work with arms dealers or drug smugglers but not with a political figure with whose opinions many people agree.

It would though probably only be a minor part of any document. Much more likely it would focus on the financial implications of the supervision necessary to maintain an account for a PEP, when his value to them had significantly decreased. It would make sure this was explained rationally and in detail, so that should it be obtained by the client no accusation of political targeting could stick.

That Coutts was sloppy in this is beyond question and I bet an urgent review of procedures has taken place.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Aug 23 6.40pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They aren't being applied for vetting political persuasion. You are again confusing what causes something with the reason for it. His political views may be the basic cause of this, but they aren't the reason. If they had no impact on the need to supervise his account more strenuously then they would be ignored, just as yours and mine are. Alongside that is the marketing stance that the bank has adopted which has resulted in them deciding that their reputation might suffer by association with him.

I doubt though that the latter consideration played a significant role in the decision to close the account. More likely with his mortgage ending and a lack of substantial deposits, the costs of running his account outweighed the returns. Bottom line! Like every business.

Just consider the highlighted sentence again. It totally contradicts itself.
You are arguing against something that you know to be true.

Did you forget that Farage obtained an internal report that confirmed that he was targeted because of his opinions and that the CEO told lies to a reporter about his financial status?

Are you going to continue to play dumb or just concede now?

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 02 Aug 23 6.40pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They aren't being applied for vetting political persuasion. You are again confusing what causes something with the reason for it. His political views may be the basic cause of this, but they aren't the reason. If they had no impact on the need to supervise his account more strenuously then they would be ignored, just as yours and mine are. Alongside that is the marketing stance that the bank has adopted which has resulted in them deciding that their reputation might suffer by association with him.

I doubt though that the latter consideration played a significant role in the decision to close the account. More likely with his mortgage ending and a lack of substantial deposits, the costs of running his account outweighed the returns. Bottom line! Like every business.

The bilge that you come out with.

 

NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 02 Aug 23 6.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They aren't being applied for vetting political persuasion. You are again confusing what causes something with the reason for it. His political views may be the basic cause of this, but they aren't the reason. If they had no impact on the need to supervise his account more strenuously then they would be ignored, just as yours and mine are. Alongside that is the marketing stance that the bank has adopted which has resulted in them deciding that their reputation might suffer by association with him.

I doubt though that the latter consideration played a significant role in the decision to close the account. More likely with his mortgage ending and a lack of substantial deposits, the costs of running his account outweighed the returns. Bottom line! Like every business.

No.

If Farage had fallen below the thresholds required ( which for a time he did ) then Coutts could have exited him without a fuss. Although even then, the Relationship Managers should be talking to their clients to ascertain if they intended funding the account to restore it sufficiently.

As for monitoring his now funded account, his political views would - in my experience - not require any additional monitoring. You said it yourself, NF hasn't changed, it's Coutts.

Obviously, I can't speak for all Coutts clients, but it bothers me not that they have Farage on their books. And much as I used to despise Jeremy Corbyn, that wouldn't have bothered me either. In fact I would find some irony in that.

All I want from my bank is to provide the level of service expected and to protect my interests in the most effective way. I don't care if they are environmentally friendly, carbon neutral etc etc. To me that's all Virtue Signalling BS and not a reason for me selecting to have an account with them

 


Old, Ungifted and White

Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Aug 23 7.00pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It would though probably only be a minor part of any document. Much more likely it would focus on the financial implications of the supervision necessary to maintain an account for a PEP, when his value to them had significantly decreased. It would make sure this was explained rationally and in detail, so that should it be obtained by the client no accusation of political targeting could stick.

That Coutts was sloppy in this is beyond question and I bet an urgent review of procedures has taken place.

So it's no longer a question of reputational damage as has been maintained for several days.

 

Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Aug 23 7.04pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

No.

If Farage had fallen below the thresholds required ( which for a time he did ) then Coutts could have exited him without a fuss. Although even then, the Relationship Managers should be talking to their clients to ascertain if they intended funding the account to restore it sufficiently.

As for monitoring his now funded account, his political views would - in my experience - not require any additional monitoring. You said it yourself, NF hasn't changed, it's Coutts.

Obviously, I can't speak for all Coutts clients, but it bothers me not that they have Farage on their books. And much as I used to despise Jeremy Corbyn, that wouldn't have bothered me either. In fact I would find some irony in that.

All I want from my bank is to provide the level of service expected and to protect my interests in the most effective way. I don't care if they are environmentally friendly, carbon neutral etc etc. To me that's all Virtue Signalling BS and not a reason for me selecting to have an account with them

This makes sense. Banks are continually trying to coax clients from each other with promises of increased interest rates, etc, and anyone who moves their accounts does so without any thought about who the other customers might be.

 

HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 02 Aug 23 9.57pm

The accusations in the Coutt's file on NF included he received money from dodgy Russian sources. This is a false accusation made under PP by the slimy Chris Bryant who has never dared repeat it outwith the chamber as he would be immediately slapped with a slander and defamation writ.

The impression I have is that the bank had decided to debank NF as soon as his mortgage was paid off ( this is minuted in the docs ) and they put together a witch hunt file to somehow justify their decision.

I have now opened a new bank account in the UK, I shall keep just enough in Natwest to make it a loss maker for them. At some point I shall deliberately provoke the bank with a " pronoun " email or similar and see what they do.

Interestingly the account opening documents specifically asked if I was a PEP

Edited by HKOwen (02 Aug 2023 10.19pm)

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Aug 23 10.31pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Just consider the highlighted sentence again. It totally contradicts itself.
You are arguing against something that you know to be true.

Did you forget that Farage obtained an internal report that confirmed that he was targeted because of his opinions and that the CEO told lies to a reporter about his financial status?

Are you going to continue to play dumb or just concede now?

As you obviously didn’t read the link I provided on the subtle, but vital, difference between cause and reason I will provide it again so there’s at least a chance that you might grasp the point.

Of course I know that Farage obtained the report. That’s what started all of this. As I know that the CEO gave a misleading interview. The report did not though confirm that he was targeted because of his political opinions. That’s just the way it has been spun by Farage and the right-wing press to be gobbled up by people like you. What it did was describe those opinions in unfortunate terms, for which an apology was made. That doesn’t mean they were the reason for his debanking, only that they were the cause of it. His views could have been considered controversial for a whole host of other reasons and the result been the same. He is a PEP.

[Link]

The only thing that must be conceded is that you are unlikely to understand this.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Aug 23 10.34pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

The bilge that you come out with.

What a surprise! Too subtle for you perhaps?

Don’t worry you are far from alone in that.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Aug 23 10.46pm

Originally posted by NEILLO

No.

If Farage had fallen below the thresholds required ( which for a time he did ) then Coutts could have exited him without a fuss. Although even then, the Relationship Managers should be talking to their clients to ascertain if they intended funding the account to restore it sufficiently.

As for monitoring his now funded account, his political views would - in my experience - not require any additional monitoring. You said it yourself, NF hasn't changed, it's Coutts.

Obviously, I can't speak for all Coutts clients, but it bothers me not that they have Farage on their books. And much as I used to despise Jeremy Corbyn, that wouldn't have bothered me either. In fact I would find some irony in that.

All I want from my bank is to provide the level of service expected and to protect my interests in the most effective way. I don't care if they are environmentally friendly, carbon neutral etc etc. To me that's all Virtue Signalling BS and not a reason for me selecting to have an account with them

Surely the cost of monitoring someone as high profile as Farage with significantly controversial and divisive opinions and with rumours of funding from Russia around him, even if unsubstantiated, would be significant and not comparable to an average PEP.

Would that not be enough on its own to make a bank want shot of him?

What you, I, or anyone else as individuals want from our bank is beside the point. It must be down to the bank itself, via whatever reasoning they decide to use, to determine what’s in their best interests. If they decide to virtue signal that’s their choice. If you decide to close your account as a consequence that’s yours.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Aug 23 10.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Surely the cost of monitoring someone as high profile as Farage with significantly controversial and divisive opinions and with rumours of funding from Russia around him, even if unsubstantiated, would be significant and not comparable to an average PEP.

Would that not be enough on its own to make a bank want shot of him?

What you, I, or anyone else as individuals want from our bank is beside the point. It must be down to the bank itself, via whatever reasoning they decide to use, to determine what’s in their best interests. If they decide to virtue signal that’s their choice. If you decide to close your account as a consequence that’s yours.

Rumours of funding from Russia? How awful.

[Link]

 

HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 02 Aug 23 11.13pm

Key point being the accusations against Farage were 100% false although the irony of the hypocrisy of Coutts ( allegedly ) is something to see

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Aug 23 12.27am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Rumours of funding from Russia? How awful.

[Link]

Rumours, whether true or not, can damage reputations and in turn create a desire to not be associated.

If any of those banks knowingly laundered money they must be prosecuted. If they were scammed they need to tighten up. As we all do. We are all at risk from scammers.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Aug 23 12.32am

Originally posted by HKOwen

Key point being the accusations against Farage were 100% false although the irony of the hypocrisy of Coutts ( allegedly ) is something to see

I think the accusations remain unproven and not false.

That if they existed they would have been buried under a pile of plausible deniability is obvious.

So too though was that the Leave campaign was remarkably well funded.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 03 Aug 23 12.55am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Rumours, whether true or not, can damage reputations and in turn create a desire to not be associated.

If any of those banks knowingly laundered money they must be prosecuted. If they were scammed they need to tighten up. As we all do. We are all at risk from scammers.

They have been.

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]


[Link]

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 03 Aug 23 5.32am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think the accusations remain unproven and not false.

That if they existed they would have been buried under a pile of plausible deniability is obvious.

So too though was that the Leave campaign was remarkably well funded.

Oops there it is again !

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 03 Aug 23 9.19am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What a surprise! Too subtle for you perhaps?

Don’t worry you are far from alone in that.

You are about as subtle as Katie Price's breasts.

 

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