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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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JohnyBoy Flag 27 Apr 16 11.58am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

That's simple to answer... of course it isn't.

It's about trying to stop people trying to fit a quart into a pint pot.

It's also about quality of life.... the UK economy may well do better in the future under EU stewardship, but it won't be much fun living here packed in like sardines with no open green spaces to enjoy and the roads gridlocked as you try to find a dentist, doctor or hospital... drive miles to the only school you could get your kid in despite there being one right on your doorstep, but others got there first?

We can operate an immigration policy like Australia does... controlling the candidates we actually need on a points based system according to skills set, health, probity, honesty etc. We wouldn't have to accept millions travelling here, driving down wages, putting an unbearable strain on housing, NHS, Schools etc as I outlined above under the EU freedom of movement directive.

Finally... we need better negotiators than Cameron/Osborne based on their defeatist rhetoric during this campaign and the pathetic attempts previously to get concessions from the EU.

We are a major economy and world players... other nations associate the Union Jack with quality and good value for money. They would all find it easier to negotiate with just the UK rather than as part of the EU. In fact they will queuing up to do business with us... rather than the ridiculous notion of putting us at the back of the queue Mr President!


So you tell me not to compare the UK to Norway, Switzerland, Greenland or Canada but you would like us to have a system like Australia....ok
As i have prevously stated if the 'immigrants' from the EU are net contributors to the tax system & we can ship out our pensioners (net detractors) to warmer european climes like Spain then the UK will continue to flourish. This is why the city of London has emerged as the fagship european city creating thousands of jobs and life opportunities. If we take out the tax contributors to our system then funding for schools, hospitals etc will have to be cut (unless we raise taxes).
If as the treasury have calculated each household will be worse off by £4,300 every year in the event of brexit, it doesnt take a whizzkid to figure out that this will be detrimental to household expenditure give what the average household earns. What the out campaign do every time you tell them this is stick there fingers in their ears and shout blah blah you are just trying to scare us even though the figures are not based on the worst case scenario. They instead try to scare back by telling us of overcrowded spaces and public services which is frankly complete tosh.
The Britain we should all strive for is a thriving one with good public services, free trade, good opportunities for our kids and taking its rightful place at the front of the world stage and voting to remain is the only way to achieve this.

 

susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 27 Apr 16 1.39pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy


So you tell me not to compare the UK to Norway, Switzerland, Greenland or Canada but you would like us to have a system like Australia....ok
As i have prevously stated if the 'immigrants' from the EU are net contributors to the tax system & we can ship out our pensioners (net detractors) to warmer european climes like Spain then the UK will continue to flourish. This is why the city of London has emerged as the fagship european city creating thousands of jobs and life opportunities. If we take out the tax contributors to our system then funding for schools, hospitals etc will have to be cut (unless we raise taxes).
If as the treasury have calculated each household will be worse off by £4,300 every year in the event of brexit, it doesnt take a whizzkid to figure out that this will be detrimental to household expenditure give what the average household earns. What the out campaign do every time you tell them this is stick there fingers in their ears and shout blah blah you are just trying to scare us even though the figures are not based on the worst case scenario. They instead try to scare back by telling us of overcrowded spaces and public services which is frankly complete tosh.
The Britain we should all strive for is a thriving one with good public services, free trade, good opportunities for our kids and taking its rightful place at the front of the world stage and voting to remain is the only way to achieve this.

To get good public services we first need to control our borders as with all the "incoming people", to put it nicely, our public services are being drowned out and our housing stock is at an all time low and people have to pay high rents because we have not got enough to go round. How anyone has not put the fact our hospitals, schools, doctors surgeries, roads housing lists etc are so bad is down to all the "incoming people" over the past few years. This is because we do not control our boarders and are told what to do by Europe with most things in our lives. The only way to sort this mess out is to leave the union and stand on our own two feet. We will not get shut out as has been said by other countries and as for Obama saying we will be at the back of the queue for trade deals...what a load of cobblers. That is just scare mongering. We were doing ok before we joined the common market and we will cope outside the Union.

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Hoof Hearted 28 Apr 16 12.29pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy


So you tell me not to compare the UK to Norway, Switzerland, Greenland or Canada but you would like us to have a system like Australia....ok
As i have prevously stated if the 'immigrants' from the EU are net contributors to the tax system & we can ship out our pensioners (net detractors) to warmer european climes like Spain then the UK will continue to flourish. This is why the city of London has emerged as the fagship european city creating thousands of jobs and life opportunities. If we take out the tax contributors to our system then funding for schools, hospitals etc will have to be cut (unless we raise taxes).
If as the treasury have calculated each household will be worse off by £4,300 every year in the event of brexit, it doesnt take a whizzkid to figure out that this will be detrimental to household expenditure give what the average household earns. What the out campaign do every time you tell them this is stick there fingers in their ears and shout blah blah you are just trying to scare us even though the figures are not based on the worst case scenario. They instead try to scare back by telling us of overcrowded spaces and public services which is frankly complete tosh.
The Britain we should all strive for is a thriving one with good public services, free trade, good opportunities for our kids and taking its rightful place at the front of the world stage and voting to remain is the only way to achieve this.

Now you've gone back to the economic argument - which no one can prove one way or another.

You and I know why you've done this ... because you know I am right about the future if we stay in the EU.... a tidal wave of economic migrants coming our way that we are powerless to prevent.

Your kids will living like the kids in Dhaka, Bangladesh are now..... cramped conditions, sharing toilets with other families....and it will be all your own fault for putting the economy ahead of over-crowding our lovely island.

 

JohnyBoy Flag 28 Apr 16 12.43pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Now you've gone back to the economic argument - which no one can prove one way or another.

You and I know why you've done this ... because you know I am right about the future if we stay in the EU.... a tidal wave of economic migrants coming our way that we are powerless to prevent.

Your kids will living like the kids in Dhaka, Bangladesh are now..... cramped conditions, sharing toilets with other families....and it will be all your own fault for putting the economy ahead of over-crowding our lovely island.

I realise that we wont agree on this one but i my arguments are based on economic prosperity and life opportunities for all of our kids. Saying we will be overrun and overcrowded to me is just scaremongering much like Enoch Powells 'rivers of blood' speech back in the 60s
If you take £4300 out of the average British household i cant see many employing plumbers or maintenance to fix em. Will end up with sewage in the streets again , like Britain in the 19th century or maybe dhaka!&#128513;

 

Hoof Hearted 28 Apr 16 12.50pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

I realise that we wont agree on this one but i my arguments are based on economic prosperity and life opportunities for all of our kids. Saying we will be overrun and overcrowded to me is just scaremongering much like Enoch Powells 'rivers of blood' speech back in the 60s
If you take £4300 out of the average British household i cant see many employing plumbers or maintenance to fix em. Will end up with sewage in the streets again , like Britain in the 19th century or maybe dhaka!&#128513;

Good... you're softening somewhat.

It wouldn't take long in the 19th Century to escape the sewage strewn streets of London, but soon London will be attached to Birmingham as it spreads under the weight of further necessary housing and infrastructure.

That £4300 bonus to your household will be the last thing you'll ever enjoy living cheek by jowl with a dozen families in one room.

 

JohnyBoy Flag 28 Apr 16 1.34pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Good... you're softening somewhat.

It wouldn't take long in the 19th Century to escape the sewage strewn streets of London, but soon London will be attached to Birmingham as it spreads under the weight of further necessary housing and infrastructure.

That £4300 bonus to your household will be the last thing you'll ever enjoy living cheek by jowl with a dozen families in one room.

Atleast if we stay in though our kids will have the opportunity to avoid the chamber pots by moving to France or Spain to enjoy what Europe has to offer and can happily return anytime they want via the blue channel if they so wish.....dont you just love the opportunities it brings!

 

ghosteagle Flag 28 Apr 16 2.42pm

"a tidal wave of economic migrants coming our way that we are powerless to prevent."

Isn't this the plot from forthcoming Aquaman movie?

 

Hoof Hearted 29 Apr 16 10.48am

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Atleast if we stay in though our kids will have the opportunity to avoid the chamber pots by moving to France or Spain to enjoy what Europe has to offer and can happily return anytime they want via the blue channel if they so wish.....dont you just love the opportunities it brings!

Don't worry... I expect some nasty pan virus thing or famine will crop the population to sustainable levels anyway.

 

Hoof Hearted 29 Apr 16 10.50am

Originally posted by ghosteagle

"a tidal wave of economic migrants coming our way that we are powerless to prevent."

Isn't this the plot from forthcoming Aquaman movie?

Yes... sorry for the spoiler everyone, but Aquaman gets killed by a surfboard being rammed up his back passage.

 

fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 29 Apr 16 11.16am

Originally posted by ghosteagle

"a tidal wave of economic migrants coming our way that we are powerless to prevent."

Isn't this the plot from forthcoming Aquaman movie?

More like an absolute shower of sh1te.

 

JohnyBoy Flag 29 Apr 16 11.42am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Don't worry... I expect some nasty pan virus thing or famine will crop the population to sustainable levels anyway.


Quite ....On another positive note I always try to get 2 weeks holiday in France each year. I particularly like the east coast, places like La Rochelle for the food, the climate, the people etc. In years past I always make an effort to enjoy a couple of evenings fine dining. Now I am not saying if we vote for a Brexit, people cant go on holiday but as I enjoy a fine Bordeaux on the long summer evenings I dream that one day I would like to live /work here for a couple of years. I think that my kids cultural/life education would be greatly enhanced by getting a job in one of those restaurants learning about cuisine, wine, the French language, not to mention good working experience. The fact that we are in the EU means that all of this is possible should we choose. My brother (who is a plumber) says the same about western Ireland as he particularly likes fishing, Guinness and the craic, and one day, he tells me , he will take more time to enjoy Ireland, setting himself up in business and living the dream.
I had the opportunity earlier in my career of working in Switzerland for 3.5 years although I had to be sponsored, carry an auslanderasweis (passport for non-Swiss) at all times and heavily restricted compared to Swiss nationals e.g. I couldn't move jobs. Although I made some very good friends, there was still prejudice from a minority of the 'Swiss for the Swiss' brigade who I came to regard frankly as thick negative people who could not see that I was paying handsomely in tax for their public services, healthcare and pensions whilst not once ever claiming a pfennig or ever even seeing a doctor.
Lastly I was fortunate enough to seed finance an internet startup company about 14 years ago. That company now has offices in Spain (including Barcelona) and Sweden (Stockholm) as well as employing about 1000 people in London. Apart from the fact that the company pays large sums in UK corporation tax and income tax from those 1000 employees, I am so proud that it gives people from the UK chances to travel and sometimes live in the European locations. Similarly some Spanish and Swedish people have come the other way. Some have got married to British people and atleast on Brit I know has married a Spanish girl. All of these life opportunities have been made available because we are in Europe and the biggest winner of all is the taxman, because as people lead more prosperous happy lives they also pay more. Voting for Brexit would deny these opportunities and freedoms which we now take for granted.

 

Hoof Hearted 29 Apr 16 12.35pm

Johnny.... you are too pessimistic about the future post Brexit.... "You can talk" I hear you say about life if the EU referendum vote is to remain.... but remember life went on much the same as it did before the EU was created.

I'm nearly 62 now and have enjoyed holidays in Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Czech Republic etc and were it not for my Parkinson's and Arthritic knees I have no doubts that travel to those same places would still be possible post Brexit.

So what if we have to show a passport and get a visa.

So will the terrorists and bogus refugees/economic migrants.

THe Yes vote (that I even voted for in 1975) was for a common market involving a handful of roughly equal nations with prosperous economies NOT a fully federal ever expanding EU state, with the UK subsidising poorer nations, and allowing their disgruntled citizens to migrate here taking up limited housing, jobs and our NHS system without contributing a fair price for it.

Everything comes with a price... yes Brexit may mean temporary economic turmoil, but remaining in the EU will finally cripple our infrastructure which is groaning now under the weight of over population.

 

JohnyBoy Flag 29 Apr 16 12.48pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Johnny.... you are too pessimistic about the future post Brexit.... "You can talk" I hear you say about life if the EU referendum vote is to remain.... but remember life went on much the same as it did before the EU was created.

I'm nearly 62 now and have enjoyed holidays in Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Czech Republic etc and were it not for my Parkinson's and Arthritic knees I have no doubts that travel to those same places would still be possible post Brexit.

So what if we have to show a passport and get a visa.

So will the terrorists and bogus refugees/economic migrants.

THe Yes vote (that I even voted for in 1975) was for a common market involving a handful of roughly equal nations with prosperous economies NOT a fully federal ever expanding EU state, with the UK subsidising poorer nations, and allowing their disgruntled citizens to migrate here taking up limited housing, jobs and our NHS system without contributing a fair price for it.

Everything comes with a price... yes Brexit may mean temporary economic turmoil, but remaining in the EU will finally cripple our infrastructure which is groaning now under the weight of over population.

You are correct that you would be able to travel to those destinations in event of Brexit but you would not be able to work - reducing life opportunities for us and more importantly the next generation.
Public services are not under strain from eu migrants, this is another 'fib and scare' from the out campaign. Public services are funded by taxation which is decided by westminster, if you think they are underfundex then blame british politicians not johny foreigner who, as in my previous examples, is paying handsomely in tax and gettinv very little benefit. Most eu migrants are net contributors to our tax system and should be thanked not tarnished with the brush of islamic terrorism which is just inciteful

 

npn Flag Crowborough 29 Apr 16 1.02pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

You are correct that you would be able to travel to those destinations in event of Brexit but you would not be able to work - reducing life opportunities for us and more importantly the next generation.
Public services are not under strain from eu migrants, this is another 'fib and scare' from the out campaign. Public services are funded by taxation which is decided by westminster, if you think they are underfundex then blame british politicians not johny foreigner who, as in my previous examples, is paying handsomely in tax and gettinv very little benefit. Most eu migrants are net contributors to our tax system and should be thanked not tarnished with the brush of islamic terrorism which is just inciteful

Not really true - sure you'd have to jump through more hoops and wouldn't be automatically allowed, but I know lots of people who spent gap years etc working in Australia, New Zealand, and other places. I have friends now who live and work in Singapore, Hong Kong, Africa (various countries). The only thing which would change is that you'd have to do some paperwork first

 

Hoof Hearted 29 Apr 16 1.21pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

You are correct that you would be able to travel to those destinations in event of Brexit but you would not be able to work - reducing life opportunities for us and more importantly the next generation.
Public services are not under strain from eu migrants, this is another 'fib and scare' from the out campaign. Public services are funded by taxation which is decided by westminster, if you think they are underfundex then blame british politicians not johny foreigner who, as in my previous examples, is paying handsomely in tax and gettinv very little benefit. Most eu migrants are net contributors to our tax system and should be thanked not tarnished with the brush of islamic terrorism which is just inciteful

You've concentrated on the economic angle again Johnny whereas I meant the practical experiences....

If you were able to talk to people from Lincolnshire, they would tell you how immigration has blighted their daily lives due to over population. Fruit and Veg picking in the fields of the fens was a seasonal thing, but now the EU laws mean foreign labour is allowed to live here 24/7, so eastern european folk have permanently settled in places like Boston and Lincoln and taken over those towns.

The indigenous population (now very much in the minority and trapped there by falling house prices compared to more lucrative/salubrious areas to live) cannot get to see a GP for weeks, get their kids in a local school and have seen their high streets turned into Polish Deli's, betting shops and massage parlours. Their grown up children cannot leave home because they cannot get a job that pays enough for the rent and living expenses... let alone find a house to buy for themselves.

So yes... I am blaming Johnny Foreigner (your words not mine) as these hardships are keenly felt by the residents of Lincolnshire and are definitely as a direct result of immigration.

What have you to say to them to persuade them that remaining in the EU is a good idea?

 

JohnyBoy Flag 29 Apr 16 1.21pm

Originally posted by npn

Not really true - sure you'd have to jump through more hoops and wouldn't be automatically allowed, but I know lots of people who spent gap years etc working in Australia, New Zealand, and other places. I have friends now who live and work in Singapore, Hong Kong, Africa (various countries). The only thing which would change is that you'd have to do some paperwork first

Put it this way, i was not allowed to start a business in Switzerland, could not move jobs, and my permit was time limited.....not exactly business friendly you might say....and most muslims (99+%) are not terrorists and ffs most european migrants are not even muslim. Its just wrong to reduce the in/out referendum to inflammatory talk of terrorism

 

npn Flag Crowborough 29 Apr 16 1.31pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Put it this way, i was not allowed to start a business in Switzerland, could not move jobs, and my permit was time limited.....not exactly business friendly you might say....and most muslims (99+%) are not terrorists and ffs most european migrants are not even muslim. Its just wrong to reduce the in/out referendum to inflammatory talk of terrorism

Well, yes it is, but I don't think I did that???

 

JohnyBoy Flag 29 Apr 16 1.33pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

You've concentrated on the economic angle again Johnny whereas I meant the practical experiences....

If you were able to talk to people from Lincolnshire, they would tell you how immigration has blighted their daily lives due to over population. Fruit and Veg picking in the fields of the fens was a seasonal thing, but now the EU laws mean foreign labour is allowed to live here 24/7, so eastern european folk have permanently settled in places like Boston and Lincoln and taken over those towns.

The indigenous population (now very much in the minority and trapped there by falling house prices compared to more lucrative/salubrious areas to live) cannot get to see a GP for weeks, get their kids in a local school and have seen their high streets turned into Polish Deli's, betting shops and massage parlours. Their grown up children cannot leave home because they cannot get a job that pays enough for the rent and living expenses... let alone find a house to buy for themselves.

So yes... I am blaming Johnny Foreigner (your words not mine) as these hardships are keenly felt by the residents of Lincolnshire and are definitely as a direct result of immigration.

What have you to say to them to persuade them that remaining in the EU is a good idea?

They were the type of people who probably complained about the arrival of people from commonwealth countries (caribbean, pakistan etc) 50odd years ago moaning about corner shops etc. Like the old residents of Notting Hill who sold their fine houses because of the arrival of the afro caribbean community because they were small minded bigots. I'd tell em to get off their fat arses, stop blaming everyone for their miserable lives and start contributing as much as those foreigners do for society rather than expect public services to for their use only....do you think they might take some of that onboard?

 

JohnyBoy Flag 29 Apr 16 1.36pm

Originally posted by npn

Well, yes it is, but I don't think I did that???


No you didnt, apologies....i was referring to an earlier post with that comment

 

npn Flag Crowborough 29 Apr 16 1.37pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy


No you didnt, apologies....i was referring to an earlier post with that comment

Fair play, no problem

 

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