Ahhh... showing your true colours now Johnny.

I highlight a genuine bunch of disadvantaged people and you belittle them and their plight by labelling them bigots.

You're not Gordon Brown are you?

Killed the debate for me Johnny I'm afraid.

Sad that in this day and age people can dismiss someone's plight with such disdain whilst dreaming of sipping wine on a foreign beach without the need for a visa highlights how little some people care for our own countrymen and are more worried about economic factors than genuine hardship.

I hope your opinions and mindset are in the minority.

But they haven't blamed anyone because of their country of birth - you've just accused them of doing that (the typical lefty trick of lazy racist labelling to suppress genuine debate).

They have just highlighted their difficulties in obtaining things that we used to take for granted like seeing your doctor on the day you fall ill, or letting your kids walk to a local school.

Now you accuse them of being racist bigots when they quite rightly express their experiences as UK citizens now compared to before we were EU members.

Your position in this debate is becoming very interesting Johnny, and not in a good way I might add.

You haven't offended me Johnny... disappointed me maybe.... your earlier posts showed promise as a balanced debater with a bit of empathy.

I don't know how old you are, but I definitely remember life before mass immigration as the golden years where we didn't have to wait for things, tell lies to go to the school we wanted to attend.

Why wouldn't I want to aspire to those times coming back?

You wouldn't accept overcrowding in a nightclub or football match - why accept it in your everyday life?

Imagine being a disabled person sitting in your favourite seat (and have done for 50 years) at Selhurst every week watching Palace then a new crowd of plastics arrive that don't even like Palace and stand up en bloc in front of you so you can't see anymore.... would you be happy for the status quo (not the group!) to continue with no reduction in seat price and no view of the match? You complain but the box office says "... but Palace are getting more revenue!"

I do understand that people can be nostalgic about the old times and i genuinely sense that you believe people would be happier if life was what it was like 50 years ago. I too can be nostalgic but change does bring benefits and in my opinion the eu has brought enormous benefits; jobs, peace, prosperity and opportunity...and when i see a new polish deli, i dont think 'those Polish ard blighting our high streets' i think oh good they make great cakes although not as good as my old nans!

I'm not blaming everything on immigration and I fully accept that management of resources could have been better.

The golden era I outlined is actually gone for ever now, I accept that, but think that if we call a halt on the numbers coming in now, at least it won't deteriorate any further.

Edited by Hoof Hearted (29 Apr 2016 3.34pm)

Indeed! But pardon me if I scoff a little at the belittling comment when the implications from your posts were that EU migrants were Islamic terrorists, benefit spongeing freeloaders using up all of our school places and hospital beds whilst blighting the lives of good ole English folk with their betting shops - is that not a tadge belittling too?

You've concentrated on the economic angle again Johnny whereas I meant the practical experiences....

If you were able to talk to people from Lincolnshire, they would tell you how immigration has blighted their daily lives due to over population. Fruit and Veg picking in the fields of the fens was a seasonal thing, but now the EU laws mean foreign labour is allowed to live here 24/7, so eastern european folk have permanently settled in places like Boston and Lincoln and taken over those towns.

The indigenous population (now very much in the minority and trapped there by falling house prices compared to more lucrative/salubrious areas to live) cannot get to see a GP for weeks, get their kids in a local school and have seen their high streets turned into Polish Deli's, betting shops and massage parlours. Their grown up children cannot leave home because they cannot get a job that pays enough for the rent and living expenses... let alone find a house to buy for themselves.

So yes... I am blaming Johnny Foreigner (your words not mine) as these hardships are keenly felt by the residents of Lincolnshire and are definitely as a direct result of immigration.

What have you to say to them to persuade them that remaining in the EU is a good idea?

Again with respect Hoof, this sounds like the eu vote is only part of your issue. People from pakistan heritage but were born in the Uk are as British as you and I. Terrorists in the UK are more likely to be British born and bred rather than eu migrants. We could be arguing over whether BNP policy is right and that we could go back generations to determine Britishness but that would be for another thread. To me coming out of the eu is almost as absurd as this, and about as rationale as denying women the vote again or abolishing parliament because its not perfect. You just had to drive past a hospital yesterday to realise that politics aint perfect but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater

The thing is Hoof that the beauty of living in a liberal democracy (for all its many imperfections) is that as a British citizen you can think and do as you like,so long as its within the law.

So,because say some people of pakistani heritage may in your view not want to get as involved say in local sporting events (and most of those I know are well into football),it makes them no less "British" than you or I or any other citizens.Any more than being the only one seemingly on the train from Marylebone to Wembley Stadium last Sunday who had not already had a minimum of at least 10 drinks made me any less of a legitimate Palace supporter