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Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Dec 16 11.56pm
From RMT press office Immediate Rail union RMT has confirmed that General Secretary Mick Cash will be attending talks at ACAS at ten am tomorrow morning on the Southern Rail dispute. Ends Let's hope something positive comes out of this.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 13 Dec 16 11.56pm

From RMT press office
Immediate

Rail union RMT has confirmed that General Secretary Mick Cash will be attending talks at ACAS at ten am tomorrow morning on the Southern Rail dispute.

Ends

Let's hope something positive comes out of this.

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Helmet46 Croydon 14 Dec 16 6.56am
Originally posted by nickgusset From RMT press office Immediate Rail union RMT has confirmed that General Secretary Mick Cash will be attending talks at ACAS at ten am tomorrow morning on the Southern Rail dispute. Ends Let's hope something positive comes out of this. Fingers crossed. However that is, of course, the conductors union who's strike has, over time, started to become somewhat pointless. Southern have been able to run more and more trains and the conductors continuing to strike is now just proving Southerns point, that they can run trains without them. Also, as a lot of the conductors on the trains throughout these strikes do not appear safety trained - the strike has allowed Southern to showcase the new conductor role to the travelling public. In my opinion ASLEF joining this strike may also have been a strategically poor move from the unions and perhaps not a good thing for the RMT and the Conductors, for it then lost them a lot of their remaining public sympathy Edited by Helmet46 (14 Dec 2016 7.32am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 14 Dec 16 6.56am

Originally posted by nickgusset

From RMT press office
Immediate

Rail union RMT has confirmed that General Secretary Mick Cash will be attending talks at ACAS at ten am tomorrow morning on the Southern Rail dispute.

Ends

Let's hope something positive comes out of this.

Fingers crossed. However that is, of course, the conductors union who's strike has, over time, started to become somewhat pointless. Southern have been able to run more and more trains and the conductors continuing to strike is now just proving Southerns point, that they can run trains without them. Also, as a lot of the conductors on the trains throughout these strikes do not appear safety trained - the strike has allowed Southern to showcase the new conductor role to the travelling public.

In my opinion ASLEF joining this strike may also have been a strategically poor move from the unions and perhaps not a good thing for the RMT and the Conductors, for it then lost them a lot of their remaining public sympathy

Edited by Helmet46 (14 Dec 2016 7.32am)

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Hoof Hearted 14 Dec 16 11.02am
Originally posted by Stuk They'll have to learn new skills that are required and change jobs. Automation will take existing roles, but it will create new ones around it. Back in the 1950's "Wheeltappers" had to be retrained when Steam locomotives were replaced by diesel/electric trains. Southern have publicly stated that they are not going to sack Guards/Conductors, nor impose any loss of earnings. The Rail Regulator has confirmed DOO is safe. This strike is 'much ado about nothing' methinks and now is 'the winter of our discontent'.
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Hoof Hearted 14 Dec 16 11.02am

Originally posted by Stuk

They'll have to learn new skills that are required and change jobs. Automation will take existing roles, but it will create new ones around it.

Back in the 1950's "Wheeltappers" had to be retrained when Steam locomotives were replaced by diesel/electric trains.

Southern have publicly stated that they are not going to sack Guards/Conductors, nor impose any loss of earnings.

The Rail Regulator has confirmed DOO is safe.

This strike is 'much ado about nothing' methinks and now is 'the winter of our discontent'.

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Stuk Top half 14 Dec 16 1.24pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Shall I put you in the 'shrug your shoulders and do nothing camp' then? What are you going to do since teachers can also be replaced, and already are being. [Link] Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 14 Dec 16 1.24pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Shall I put you in the 'shrug your shoulders and do nothing camp' then?

What are you going to do since teachers can also be replaced, and already are being.

[Link]

Optimistic as ever

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Stuk Top half 14 Dec 16 1.24pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Back in the 1950's "Wheeltappers" had to be retrained when Steam locomotives were replaced by diesel/electric trains. Southern have publicly stated that they are not going to sack Guards/Conductors, nor impose any loss of earnings. The Rail Regulator has confirmed DOO is safe. This strike is 'much ado about nothing' methinks and now is 'the winter of our discontent'. It's a farce, that's what it is. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 14 Dec 16 1.24pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Back in the 1950's "Wheeltappers" had to be retrained when Steam locomotives were replaced by diesel/electric trains.

Southern have publicly stated that they are not going to sack Guards/Conductors, nor impose any loss of earnings.

The Rail Regulator has confirmed DOO is safe.

This strike is 'much ado about nothing' methinks and now is 'the winter of our discontent'.

It's a farce, that's what it is.

Optimistic as ever

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npn Crowborough 14 Dec 16 1.34pm
Something from Southern's school of logic - I struggled in last Tuesday, despite no service on the Uckfield line due to guards' action. I could do this because Southern laid on a coach from Crowborough (Southern) to Tunbridge Wells (South Eastern). Wanted to go in today, but apparently there are no replacement buses on driver strike days, only guard strike days (why the **** do I care who's on strike or why, all I care about is a total lack of trains)
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npn

Crowborough 14 Dec 16 1.34pm

Something from Southern's school of logic - I struggled in last Tuesday, despite no service on the Uckfield line due to guards' action. I could do this because Southern laid on a coach from Crowborough (Southern) to Tunbridge Wells (South Eastern).

Wanted to go in today, but apparently there are no replacement buses on driver strike days, only guard strike days (why the **** do I care who's on strike or why, all I care about is a total lack of trains)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.14pm
Originally posted by Stuk It's a farce, that's what it is. As is the fact that the RMT weren't allowed into talks at ACAS this morning.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.14pm

Originally posted by Stuk

It's a farce, that's what it is.

As is the fact that the RMT weren't allowed into talks at ACAS this morning.

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npn Crowborough 14 Dec 16 2.17pm
Originally posted by nickgusset As is the fact that the RMT weren't allowed into talks at ACAS this morning. Isn't that because the discussions were with ASLEF?
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npn

Crowborough 14 Dec 16 2.17pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

As is the fact that the RMT weren't allowed into talks at ACAS this morning.

Isn't that because the discussions were with ASLEF?

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Stuk Top half 14 Dec 16 2.28pm
Originally posted by nickgusset As is the fact that the RMT weren't allowed into talks at ACAS this morning. It's more productive to deal with one stroppy child at a time. RMT should never have tried to gatecrash, they weren't invited. "GTR said Aslef represented nearly 1,000 Southern drivers, while the RMT represented only 12." and they were offered this: Nick Brown, chief operating officer of Southern's parent company, Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR), said he had told Mr Cash they would be happy to meet him at Acas later in the day. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 14 Dec 16 2.28pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

As is the fact that the RMT weren't allowed into talks at ACAS this morning.

It's more productive to deal with one stroppy child at a time.

RMT should never have tried to gatecrash, they weren't invited. "GTR said Aslef represented nearly 1,000 Southern drivers, while the RMT represented only 12."

and they were offered this:
Nick Brown, chief operating officer of Southern's parent company, Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR), said he had told Mr Cash they would be happy to meet him at Acas later in the day.

Optimistic as ever

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.35pm
Originally posted by Stuk It's more productive to deal with one stroppy child at a time. RMT should never have tried to gatecrash, they weren't invited. "GTR said Aslef represented nearly 1,000 Southern drivers, while the RMT represented only 12." and they were offered this: Nick Brown, chief operating officer of Southern's parent company, Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR), said he had told Mr Cash they would be happy to meet him at Acas later in the day. None of which Cash said happened on an interview on Lbc earlier. What did Acas say?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.35pm

Originally posted by Stuk

It's more productive to deal with one stroppy child at a time.

RMT should never have tried to gatecrash, they weren't invited. "GTR said Aslef represented nearly 1,000 Southern drivers, while the RMT represented only 12."

None of which Cash said happened on an interview on Lbc earlier.

What did Acas say?

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Dec 16 2.43pm
It's like the 1970's never happened. There is no justification for this strike whatso ever and the unions know this. If ever there was a good reason to reduce union power by introducing more automation, this is it.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 Dec 16 2.43pm

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It's like the 1970's never happened.
There is no justification for this strike whatso ever and the unions know this.
If ever there was a good reason to reduce union power by introducing more automation, this is it.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.45pm
Originally posted by npn Isn't that because the discussions were with ASLEF? Mick Brown said he thought he was invited. The RMT even made a press release last night. Aslef should have said they wanted RMT in attendance. Both unions grievances. Mick Cash of the RMT clarified when interviewed earlier that the issue wasn't really about who opens and closes the doors but that southern won't guarantee that all trains won't have a trained guard (with all the skills listed by 7mins earlier in the thread) We've seen the ratio of staff: passengers would be 1:1800 on twelve carriage trains. Is that really safe? Do you trust a company on safety that says they won't guarantee a safety person (aka Guard) on busy routes. In the train crash in Watford a while back the driver was trapped in the cab. It was the guard that made the train safe, stopped people from getting off and reassured passengers. Imagine if he wasn't there.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 14 Dec 16 2.45pm

Originally posted by npn

Isn't that because the discussions were with ASLEF?

Mick Brown said he thought he was invited. The RMT even made a press release last night.

Aslef should have said they wanted RMT in attendance. Both unions grievances.

Mick Cash of the RMT clarified when interviewed earlier that the issue wasn't really about who opens and closes the doors but that southern won't guarantee that all trains won't have a trained guard (with all the skills listed by 7mins earlier in the thread)
We've seen the ratio of staff: passengers would be 1:1800 on twelve carriage trains. Is that really safe?
Do you trust a company on safety that says they won't guarantee a safety person (aka Guard) on busy routes.

In the train crash in Watford a while back the driver was trapped in the cab. It was the guard that made the train safe, stopped people from getting off and reassured passengers. Imagine if he wasn't there.

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