Why Can't The French Stop Them Coming?

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Why Can't The French Stop Them Coming?

Page 39 of 40 < 35 36 37 38 39 40 >

Matov 29 Nov 21 7.58pm
Trying to stop people buying boats and so on is ignoring the basic reality that as long as people know that once they make it here then they have almost zero chance of being removed, then its not going to stop. The UK has two solutions. The first is to just register people when they turn up, give them a NI number and tell them that if they don't claim or commit a crime for 5 years then all will be fine. To be fair, if people are willing to risk crossing the channel then they have a certain something about them. Probably far worse migrants to have here. The second is to round them up, once they make it ashore, put them in camps and process their claims on the basis that if they are rejected, its immediate deportation or else kept locked up until such a time as they can be sent off. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Nov 21 7.58pm

Trying to stop people buying boats and so on is ignoring the basic reality that as long as people know that once they make it here then they have almost zero chance of being removed, then its not going to stop.

The UK has two solutions.

The first is to just register people when they turn up, give them a NI number and tell them that if they don't claim or commit a crime for 5 years then all will be fine. To be fair, if people are willing to risk crossing the channel then they have a certain something about them. Probably far worse migrants to have here.

The second is to round them up, once they make it ashore, put them in camps and process their claims on the basis that if they are rejected, its immediate deportation or else kept locked up until such a time as they can be sent off.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Nov 21 10.45pm
Originally posted by Matov Trying to stop people buying boats and so on is ignoring the basic reality that as long as people know that once they make it here then they have almost zero chance of being removed, then its not going to stop. The UK has two solutions. The first is to just register people when they turn up, give them a NI number and tell them that if they don't claim or commit a crime for 5 years then all will be fine. To be fair, if people are willing to risk crossing the channel then they have a certain something about them. Probably far worse migrants to have here. The second is to round them up, once they make it ashore, put them in camps and process their claims on the basis that if they are rejected, its immediate deportation or else kept locked up until such a time as they can be sent off. I don't like illegal immigration, especially of this kind, any more than anyone else. I find the whole situation very difficult to come to any conclusions about. We have international and moral obligations, but we also have to expect help from our neighbours, and not blind eyes. This problem won't be solved alone, and bickering won't help. How to stop the trafficking gangs seems critical, and we can't do that from here. I watched some of Newsnight on the evening that that large group drowned. There was an ex head of the Border Force there, on the harbourside in Dover, who was convinced we need to move to Australian style offshore processing, which sorted out their problem. However, the more the conversation went on, the less credible this seemed. Where could we take them? As it apparently takes a very long time for the processing, there would need to be huge facilities available. If I heard correctly as around 75% establish refugee status, what would be the point? So I really don't know how we move forward and don't envy those who have to decide how we try. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 29 Nov 21 10.45pm

Originally posted by Matov

The UK has two solutions.

I don't like illegal immigration, especially of this kind, any more than anyone else.

I find the whole situation very difficult to come to any conclusions about. We have international and moral obligations, but we also have to expect help from our neighbours, and not blind eyes. This problem won't be solved alone, and bickering won't help. How to stop the trafficking gangs seems critical, and we can't do that from here.

I watched some of Newsnight on the evening that that large group drowned. There was an ex head of the Border Force there, on the harbourside in Dover, who was convinced we need to move to Australian style offshore processing, which sorted out their problem. However, the more the conversation went on, the less credible this seemed. Where could we take them? As it apparently takes a very long time for the processing, there would need to be huge facilities available. If I heard correctly as around 75% establish refugee status, what would be the point?

So I really don't know how we move forward and don't envy those who have to decide how we try.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Spiderman Horsham 30 Nov 21 8.43am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I don't like illegal immigration, especially of this kind, any more than anyone else. I find the whole situation very difficult to come to any conclusions about. We have international and moral obligations, but we also have to expect help from our neighbours, and not blind eyes. This problem won't be solved alone, and bickering won't help. How to stop the trafficking gangs seems critical, and we can't do that from here. I watched some of Newsnight on the evening that that large group drowned. There was an ex head of the Border Force there, on the harbourside in Dover, who was convinced we need to move to Australian style offshore processing, which sorted out their problem. However, the more the conversation went on, the less credible this seemed. Where could we take them? As it apparently takes a very long time for the processing, there would need to be huge facilities available. If I heard correctly as around 75% establish refugee status, what would be the point? So I really don't know how we move forward and don't envy those who have to decide how we try. Very good post WE. I did not see Newsnight but if it was Tony Smith speaking, he is excellent , he was in charge of the BF responsibilities during the Olympic, the one Senior Manager I had confidence in, probably as he had worked his way up. Co-operation is needed throughout Europe and beyond, if human trafficking is to be stopped ( not sure this will ever be possible unfortunately). This is not a Brexit issue as it has been going on for years and we have rarely been able to remove people. The idea of an Australian system has been around for years, I am in favour but as you say too many pitfalls . As I have said before the removal process takes so long, due mainly to the numerous appeals and also attempting to get documentation from relevant governments., even if an asylum application is refused it is difficult to approach the applicants government, as they would then be aware ( or have a good guess) that he/she has applied for asylum here. You see we can agree on things Edited by Spiderman (30 Nov 2021 8.44am)

Spiderman

Horsham 30 Nov 21 8.43am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I don't like illegal immigration, especially of this kind, any more than anyone else.

So I really don't know how we move forward and don't envy those who have to decide how we try.

Very good post WE. I did not see Newsnight but if it was Tony Smith speaking, he is excellent
, he was in charge of the BF responsibilities during the Olympic, the one Senior Manager I had confidence in, probably as he had worked his way up.
Co-operation is needed throughout Europe and beyond, if human trafficking is to be stopped ( not sure this will ever be possible unfortunately). This is not a Brexit issue as it has been going on for years and we have rarely been able to remove people.
The idea of an Australian system has been around for years, I am in favour but
as you say too many pitfalls . As I have said before the removal process takes so long, due mainly to the numerous appeals and also attempting to get documentation from relevant governments., even if an asylum application is refused it is difficult to approach the applicants government, as they would then be aware ( or have a good guess) that he/she has applied for asylum here.
You see we can agree on things

Edited by Spiderman (30 Nov 2021 8.44am)

Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 30 Nov 21 12.34pm
I read in the FT in the last day or two, some reporter had interviewed a couple of migrants living on the northern French coast, asking why they were so determined to get to the UK. The consensus seemed to be that the French (and other countries they'd been through) treated them so badly, it was tantamount to forcing them to move onto their nearest neighbour,...the end stop being the UK. Probably not the whole story, but there were enough similar responses to 'get a vibe' at their treatment Edited by Forest Hillbilly (30 Nov 2021 12.35pm) I disengage, I turn the page.

Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 30 Nov 21 12.34pm

I read in the FT in the last day or two, some reporter had interviewed a couple of migrants living on the northern French coast, asking why they were so determined to get to the UK. The consensus seemed to be that the French (and other countries they'd been through) treated them so badly, it was tantamount to forcing them to move onto their nearest neighbour,...the end stop being the UK.

Probably not the whole story, but there were enough similar responses to 'get a vibe' at their treatment

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (30 Nov 2021 12.35pm)

I disengage, I turn the page.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 30 Nov 21 1.01pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Very good post WE. I did not see Newsnight but if it was Tony Smith speaking, he is excellent , he was in charge of the BF responsibilities during the Olympic, the one Senior Manager I had confidence in, probably as he had worked his way up. Co-operation is needed throughout Europe and beyond, if human trafficking is to be stopped ( not sure this will ever be possible unfortunately). This is not a Brexit issue as it has been going on for years and we have rarely been able to remove people. The idea of an Australian system has been around for years, I am in favour but as you say too many pitfalls . As I have said before the removal process takes so long, due mainly to the numerous appeals and also attempting to get documentation from relevant governments., even if an asylum application is refused it is difficult to approach the applicants government, as they would then be aware ( or have a good guess) that he/she has applied for asylum here. You see we can agree on things Edited by Spiderman (30 Nov 2021 8.44am) Yes, we can, probably more than we both know. fingers crossed for tonight! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 30 Nov 21 1.01pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Edited by Spiderman (30 Nov 2021 8.44am)

Yes, we can, probably more than we both know.

fingers crossed for tonight!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Croydon 30 Nov 21 3.29pm
What has become of Britain? This appalling contempt for human life is down to Johnson, Patel, Farage and the rest of the Brexit xenophobes. "Hastings RNLI lifeboat crew blocked from going out to sea by people angry at them rescuing refugees."

steeleye20

Croydon 30 Nov 21 3.29pm

What has become of Britain?

This appalling contempt for human life is down to Johnson, Patel, Farage and the rest of the Brexit xenophobes.

"Hastings RNLI lifeboat crew blocked from going out to sea by people angry at them rescuing refugees."

Badger11 Beckenham 30 Nov 21 4.04pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I read in the FT in the last day or two, some reporter had interviewed a couple of migrants living on the northern French coast, asking why they were so determined to get to the UK. The consensus seemed to be that the French (and other countries they'd been through) treated them so badly, it was tantamount to forcing them to move onto their nearest neighbour,...the end stop being the UK. Probably not the whole story, but there were enough similar responses to 'get a vibe' at their treatment Edited by Forest Hillbilly (30 Nov 2021 12.35pm) I mention this before, a friend is a Social Anthropologist and as she married a guy from Nigeria (she is white) and they have kids she has taken a professional interest in migrants. She has also had 2 books published and was a prominent Windrush protestor, basically she if a fully paid up member of the Lefty party. Anyway she is currently undertaking a study of migrant lives in Paris and as much as it most have pained her she says that the French treat them appallingly compared to us. She is not a fan of Boris either but the French are far worse. Make of that what you will. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 30 Nov 21 4.04pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Probably not the whole story, but there were enough similar responses to 'get a vibe' at their treatment

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (30 Nov 2021 12.35pm)

I mention this before, a friend is a Social Anthropologist and as she married a guy from Nigeria (she is white) and they have kids she has taken a professional interest in migrants. She has also had 2 books published and was a prominent Windrush protestor, basically she if a fully paid up member of the Lefty party.

Anyway she is currently undertaking a study of migrant lives in Paris and as much as it most have pained her she says that the French treat them appallingly compared to us. She is not a fan of Boris either but the French are far worse.

Make of that what you will.

One more point

steeleye20 Croydon 30 Nov 21 4.22pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I mention this before, a friend is a Social Anthropologist and as she married a guy from Nigeria (she is white) and they have kids she has taken a professional interest in migrants. She has also had 2 books published and was a prominent Windrush protestor, basically she if a fully paid up member of the Lefty party. Anyway she is currently undertaking a study of migrant lives in Paris and as much as it most have pained her she says that the French treat them appallingly compared to us. She is not a fan of Boris either but the French are far worse. Make of that what you will. She thinks we treat people better and she is a prominent Windrush protester? Some of them have died waiting for their compensation only 5% actually have got any.

steeleye20

Croydon 30 Nov 21 4.22pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Make of that what you will.

She thinks we treat people better and she is a prominent Windrush protester?

Some of them have died waiting for their compensation only 5% actually have got any.

Badger11 Beckenham 30 Nov 21 5.15pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 She thinks we treat people better and she is a prominent Windrush protester? Some of them have died waiting for their compensation only 5% actually have got any. Try looking on the streets of Paris and especially the Muslim ghettos on the outskirts. Like I said she is not a fan how we treat migrants (I disagree of course) never the less her research tells her that the French are far worse which is why they wont to come here. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 30 Nov 21 5.15pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

She thinks we treat people better and she is a prominent Windrush protester?

Some of them have died waiting for their compensation only 5% actually have got any.

Try looking on the streets of Paris and especially the Muslim ghettos on the outskirts. Like I said she is not a fan how we treat migrants (I disagree of course) never the less her research tells her that the French are far worse which is why they wont to come here.

One more point

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Nov 21 7.45pm
Hurty comments between mates is full on racism in England. In France cattle prods, curfews and camps aren't racist - just fine. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Nov 21 7.45pm

Hurty comments between mates is full on racism in England. In France cattle prods, curfews and camps aren't racist - just fine.

Red and Blue Army!

PalazioVecchio south pole 30 Nov 21 8.34pm
Originally posted by Badger11 a friend is a Social Anthropologist and as she married a guy from Nigeria (she is white) and they have kids she has taken a professional interest in migrants. She has also had 2 books published and was a prominent Windrush protestor, basically she if a fully paid up member of the Lefty party. Lots of research grant money to be chased, for sure. Social Anthropology ? what lessons did it find when a large number of young men all arrive into a new territory ? The Viking Era was interesting Social Anthropology. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 30 Nov 21 8.34pm

Originally posted by Badger11

a friend is a Social Anthropologist and as she married a guy from Nigeria (she is white) and they have kids she has taken a professional interest in migrants.

She has also had 2 books published and was a prominent Windrush protestor, basically she if a fully paid up member of the Lefty party.

Lots of research grant money to be chased, for sure.

Social Anthropology ? what lessons did it find when a large number of young men all arrive into a new territory ?

The Viking Era was interesting Social Anthropology.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

steeleye20 Croydon 01 Dec 21 8.25pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 What is the current location of the survivors mobile phone, it will have the record. In making this claim, he is also saying the smugglers are out to kill him. It looks very much like our survivor did indeed call HM Coastguard emergency number from the sinking boat. Huge flap going on denying everything but the phone records will not lie.

steeleye20

Croydon 01 Dec 21 8.25pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

What is the current location of the survivors mobile phone, it will have the record.

In making this claim, he is also saying the smugglers are out to kill him.

It looks very much like our survivor did indeed call HM Coastguard emergency number from the sinking boat.

Huge flap going on denying everything but the phone records will not lie.

Spiderman Horsham 12 Dec 21 9.35am
Here is an example of what I have been saying, about how difficult it is to remove those that arrive with no documentation. [Link]

Spiderman

Horsham 12 Dec 21 9.35am

Here is an example of what I have been saying, about how difficult it is to remove those that arrive with no documentation.

[Link]

Badger11 Beckenham 12 Dec 21 9.52am
Originally posted by Spiderman Here is an example of what I have been saying, about how difficult it is to remove those that arrive with no documentation. [Link] I think most migrants realise that if they can get here the chances of them being deported are very low indeed. Complete joke of our system it is time to quit the EHR court and the legislation that Blair passed have our own laws passed by Parliament. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 12 Dec 21 9.52am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Here is an example of what I have been saying, about how difficult it is to remove those that arrive with no documentation.

[Link]

I think most migrants realise that if they can get here the chances of them being deported are very low indeed.

Complete joke of our system it is time to quit the EHR court and the legislation that Blair passed have our own laws passed by Parliament.

One more point

PalazioVecchio south pole 12 Dec 21 2.49pm
regarding the question in the OP, one of the countries in Eastern Europe had refugees on its Easterly borders, refugees looking to enter the country. so the refugees were put onto buses and sent across the country and wished good luck and bon voyage into the West. Was that Poland or Slovakia.....can anybody remember ? The refugees were allowed pass through the country but not to stay. Maybe today that is what the French are doing ? Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 12 Dec 21 2.49pm

regarding the question in the OP,

one of the countries in Eastern Europe had refugees on its Easterly borders, refugees looking to enter the country.

so the refugees were put onto buses and sent across the country and wished good luck and bon voyage into the West.

Was that Poland or Slovakia.....can anybody remember ? The refugees were allowed pass through the country but not to stay.

Maybe today that is what the French are doing ?

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Spiderman Horsham 13 Dec 21 11.45am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio regarding the question in the OP, one of the countries in Eastern Europe had refugees on its Easterly borders, refugees looking to enter the country. so the refugees were put onto buses and sent across the country and wished good luck and bon voyage into the West. Was that Poland or Slovakia.....can anybody remember ? The refugees were allowed pass through the country but not to stay. Maybe today that is what the French are doing ? They have been doing it for years, as have the Italians. Italy used to issue them with a paper allowing them to pass through only and they had to do so within 7 days

Spiderman

Horsham 13 Dec 21 11.45am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

regarding the question in the OP,

one of the countries in Eastern Europe had refugees on its Easterly borders, refugees looking to enter the country.

so the refugees were put onto buses and sent across the country and wished good luck and bon voyage into the West.

Was that Poland or Slovakia.....can anybody remember ? The refugees were allowed pass through the country but not to stay.

Maybe today that is what the French are doing ?

They have been doing it for years, as have the Italians. Italy used to issue them with a paper allowing them to pass through only and they had to do so within 7 days

Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 17 Jan 22 10.27am
Well, if the French can't (won't) stop 'em, perhaps the Navy can. [Link] It's about time we took a tougher stance. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 17 Jan 22 10.27am

Well, if the French can't (won't) stop 'em, perhaps the Navy can.

[Link]

It's about time we took a tougher stance.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

Badger11 Beckenham 17 Jan 22 10.31am
Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer Well, if the French can't (won't) stop 'em, perhaps the Navy can. [Link] It's about time we took a tougher stance. Call me cynical but I don't see the Royal Navy towing boats back to France. I doubt the government has the balls to put up with the flack. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 17 Jan 22 10.31am

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

Well, if the French can't (won't) stop 'em, perhaps the Navy can.

[Link]

It's about time we took a tougher stance.

Call me cynical but I don't see the Royal Navy towing boats back to France. I doubt the government has the balls to put up with the flack.

One more point

Badger11 Beckenham 20 Jan 22 9.06am
I see Piti Patel's latest whizz to stop the boat people, the Home Office will no longer issue daily figures. Well it worked for law and order, if you stop counting something the problem goes away. Sigh. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 20 Jan 22 9.06am

I see Piti Patel's latest whizz to stop the boat people, the Home Office will no longer issue daily figures.

Well it worked for law and order, if you stop counting something the problem goes away. Sigh.

One more point

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 20 Jan 22 2.01pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I see Piti Patel's latest whizz to stop the boat people, the Home Office will no longer issue daily figures. Well it worked for law and order, if you stop counting something the problem goes away. Sigh. It"s a great idea by Priti, better than the giant hairdryer to blow the dingys back to France anyway! The added bonus is it will give those dingy watch folk an added purpose in life- bit like trainspotters but dingys, log boats coming over, numbers, sex, whats not to like?

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 20 Jan 22 2.01pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I see Piti Patel's latest whizz to stop the boat people, the Home Office will no longer issue daily figures.

Well it worked for law and order, if you stop counting something the problem goes away. Sigh.

It"s a great idea by Priti, better than the giant hairdryer to blow the dingys back to France anyway! The added bonus is it will give those dingy watch folk an added purpose in life- bit like trainspotters but dingys, log boats coming over, numbers, sex, whats not to like?

Page 39 of 40 < 35 36 37 38 39 40 >

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Why Can't The French Stop Them Coming?

Site Map