Teachers' pay

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Teachers' pay

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 17 3.43pm
Sats and constant testing is one of the 4 main causes, (IMO) of the current malaise in education. Kevin Courtney NUT Commenting on the DfE publication of Key Stage 2 tests, and the percentage of pupils reaching what Government has decided it is the expected standard in the core subjects of Maths and English, Kevin Courtney, General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers, the largest teachers’ union, said; “Teachers and pupils have put in many extra yards to get these results: many will be pleased, or relieved, at what they have achieved. But overall the results make sombre reading. As the House of Commons Education Committee concluded earlier this year, we have a primary assessment system which ‘does not improve teaching and learning’. “Today’s results show that 61% of pupils reached the expected standard in reading, writing and mathematics in 2017 (compared to 53% in 2016). They tell 39% of 11 year olds that they have not reached ‘the expected standard’ for their age group and are not ready to begin secondary education “This demoralising situation says less about the efforts of teachers and pupils than about the deep flaws of our current system. Designed to hold schools to account, it treats primary children as collateral damage. “In an NUT survey of 2,300 members, conducted at the end of this year’s SATs, teachers revealed the costs of the current system (1). 95% thought that the demands of SATs reduced pupils’ access to a broad and balanced curriculum. Music, art, history and geography are among the subjects that miss out as schools are pressured into a narrow focus on aspects of Maths and English “84% thought that the high stakes system had a particularly negative effect on children with special needs and disabilities. In some schools, harsh decisions have been made. As one teacher underlined: ‘Due to a shortage of additional staff, priority is given to those who are deemed to have a chance at passing the tests’. “This is a situation that should trouble Ofsted Chief Inspector Amanda Spielman. She recently spoke of her concern that schools are turning themselves into exam factories rather than providing a well-rounded education. Today the Union calls on her to act on this concern. By announcing that Ofsted inspectors will not be guided by schools’ performance in narrow, damaging and unreliable tests, she could send a powerful signal to primary teachers that a genuinely new approach to assessment and accountability is on the way.” Edited by nickgusset (06 Jul 2017 3.45pm)

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 17 3.43pm

Sats and constant testing is one of the 4 main causes, (IMO) of the current malaise in education.
Kevin Courtney NUT
Commenting on the DfE publication of Key Stage 2 tests, and the percentage of pupils reaching what Government has decided it is the expected standard in the core subjects of Maths and English, Kevin Courtney, General Secretary of the National Union of Teachers, the largest teachers’ union, said;

“Teachers and pupils have put in many extra yards to get these results: many will be pleased, or relieved, at what they have achieved. But overall the results make sombre reading. As the House of Commons Education Committee concluded earlier this year, we have a primary assessment system which ‘does not improve teaching and learning’.

“Today’s results show that 61% of pupils reached the expected standard in reading, writing and mathematics in 2017 (compared to 53% in 2016). They tell 39% of 11 year olds that they have not reached ‘the expected standard’ for their age group and are not ready to begin secondary education

“This demoralising situation says less about the efforts of teachers and pupils than about the deep flaws of our current system. Designed to hold schools to account, it treats primary children as collateral damage.

“In an NUT survey of 2,300 members, conducted at the end of this year’s SATs, teachers revealed the costs of the current system (1). 95% thought that the demands of SATs reduced pupils’ access to a broad and balanced curriculum. Music, art, history and geography are among the subjects that miss out as schools are pressured into a narrow focus on aspects of Maths and English

“84% thought that the high stakes system had a particularly negative effect on children with special needs and disabilities. In some schools, harsh decisions have been made. As one teacher underlined: ‘Due to a shortage of additional staff, priority is given to those who are deemed to have a chance at passing the tests’.

“This is a situation that should trouble Ofsted Chief Inspector Amanda Spielman. She recently spoke of her concern that schools are turning themselves into exam factories rather than providing a well-rounded education. Today the Union calls on her to act on this concern. By announcing that Ofsted inspectors will not be guided by schools’ performance in narrow, damaging and unreliable tests, she could send a powerful signal to primary teachers that a genuinely new approach to assessment and accountability is on the way.”

Edited by nickgusset (06 Jul 2017 3.45pm)

Mr Palaceman 06 Jul 17 4.05pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger No. What makes public sector workers so special where pay is concerned? What makes public service workers special apart from the work they do to keep the country running is that they have already taken a big hit in their wages for the country. While others continue to make money had over fist. May said to that nurse "there is no money tree". After all the time in power the current govenment has had, they've had plenty of time to grow one and start looking after the country. The money is there it's just about political priorties. "You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel

Mr Palaceman

06 Jul 17 4.05pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No.

What makes public sector workers so special where pay is concerned?

What makes public service workers special apart from the work they do to keep the country running is that they have already taken a big hit in their wages for the country.

While others continue to make money had over fist.

May said to that nurse "there is no money tree". After all the time in power the current govenment has had, they've had plenty of time to grow one and start looking after the country.

The money is there it's just about political priorties.

"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

Stirlingsays 06 Jul 17 4.40pm
I would have thought that the accumulation of continual debt with it's continuing rise as a percentage of our budget to pay out on is a priority to tackle. Unless we clear the deficit that's going to continue to get worse. Our interest rates are so low because we have a government committed to running a sustainable economic model. If the markets saw a Labour government coming in running Corbyn's model the interest rates would go up significantly and hence so would the percentage of the budget we have to pay out. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2017 4.40pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Jul 17 4.40pm

I would have thought that the accumulation of continual debt with it's continuing rise as a percentage of our budget to pay out on is a priority to tackle.

Unless we clear the deficit that's going to continue to get worse.

Our interest rates are so low because we have a government committed to running a sustainable economic model. If the markets saw a Labour government coming in running Corbyn's model the interest rates would go up significantly and hence so would the percentage of the budget we have to pay out.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2017 4.40pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Jul 17 5.01pm
Originally posted by Willo Not once have I heard my wife and daughter complain about their remuneration. I cannot of course speak for teachers in general - don't get to talk to them these days ! Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2017 3.01pm) In fairness most of the people I know in teaching aren't too unhappy with the pay (the lack of pay rises irks, but with the hours of unpaid work - that's generally more a cause of people leaving teaching. Getting a good wage for the contracted hours, but nothing for the five or six hours of work required in prep, planning, ofstead and marking). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 06 Jul 17 5.01pm

Originally posted by Willo

Not once have I heard my wife and daughter complain about their remuneration.
I cannot of course speak for teachers in general - don't get to talk to them these days !

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2017 3.01pm)

In fairness most of the people I know in teaching aren't too unhappy with the pay (the lack of pay rises irks, but with the hours of unpaid work - that's generally more a cause of people leaving teaching. Getting a good wage for the contracted hours, but nothing for the five or six hours of work required in prep, planning, ofstead and marking).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Jul 17 5.04pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I would have thought that the accumulation of continual debt with it's continuing rise as a percentage of our budget to pay out on is a priority to tackle. Unless we clear the deficit that's going to continue to get worse. Our interest rates are so low because we have a government committed to running a sustainable economic model. If the markets saw a Labour government coming in running Corbyn's model the interest rates would go up significantly and hence so would the percentage of the budget we have to pay out. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2017 4.40pm) It is, but if in doing so we end up with people leaving public sector due to financial pressures, society suffers. 7 years with a fixed 1% rise against an inflation of 2.9%. I suspect that most of the Unions will be talking of strikes over the coming year. The government is weak, and there is sympathy for their plight. Realistically, the State is going to need to find revenue to pay its staff from somewhere, even if that means raising income tax. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 06 Jul 17 5.04pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I would have thought that the accumulation of continual debt with it's continuing rise as a percentage of our budget to pay out on is a priority to tackle.

Unless we clear the deficit that's going to continue to get worse.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jul 2017 4.40pm)

It is, but if in doing so we end up with people leaving public sector due to financial pressures, society suffers. 7 years with a fixed 1% rise against an inflation of 2.9%.

I suspect that most of the Unions will be talking of strikes over the coming year. The government is weak, and there is sympathy for their plight.

Realistically, the State is going to need to find revenue to pay its staff from somewhere, even if that means raising income tax.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Stirlingsays 06 Jul 17 5.15pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 It is, but if in doing so we end up with people leaving public sector due to financial pressures, society suffers. 7 years with a fixed 1% rise against an inflation of 2.9%. I suspect that most of the Unions will be talking of strikes over the coming year. The government is weak, and there is sympathy for their plight. Realistically, the State is going to need to find revenue to pay its staff from somewhere, even if that means raising income tax. I agree....I think that's the most rational approach. Still, we have the problem of a little is never going to be enough anyway. I hope that whatever they come up with works....We need to be a little more German and less Italian.....to use rather enjoyable stereotypes....Well German, apart from their rather easy approach to a form of economic continual indentured servitude for client nations. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Jul 17 5.15pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

It is, but if in doing so we end up with people leaving public sector due to financial pressures, society suffers. 7 years with a fixed 1% rise against an inflation of 2.9%.

I suspect that most of the Unions will be talking of strikes over the coming year. The government is weak, and there is sympathy for their plight.

Realistically, the State is going to need to find revenue to pay its staff from somewhere, even if that means raising income tax.

I agree....I think that's the most rational approach. Still, we have the problem of a little is never going to be enough anyway.

I hope that whatever they come up with works....We need to be a little more German and less Italian.....to use rather enjoyable stereotypes....Well German, apart from their rather easy approach to a form of economic continual indentured servitude for client nations.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 06 Jul 17 11.25pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 In fairness most of the people I know in teaching aren't too unhappy with the pay (the lack of pay rises irks, but with the hours of unpaid work - that's generally more a cause of people leaving teaching. Getting a good wage for the contracted hours, but nothing for the five or six hours of work required in prep, planning, ofstead and marking). Plenty of the self employed amongst us do this all the time. It's not just teachers.... Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 06 Jul 17 11.25pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Plenty of the self employed amongst us do this all the time. It's not just teachers....

Pro USA & Israel

Stirlingsays 07 Jul 17 12.37am
Originally posted by Jimenez Plenty of the self employed amongst us do this all the time. It's not just teachers.... I have time for that argument. While private sector pay has taken over public sector that's not true for everyone. However being a teacher and being self employed don't require the same entry requirements. It's apples and oranges. To be a qualified teacher you need a degree and then a teacher qualification. All of which is not insignificant. Teaching does not currently represent a good profession to enter for what is required to enter it. It's the same with nursing....where requiring a degree has to be one of the most stupid typically short sighted elitist moves the t***s who rule over us have done. Other public sector jobs represent a poor career choice for other reasons....Still valid ones with issues I don't downplay. Unless you truly think you can stick out a public sector job until retirement it represents a high risk poor career choice for a qualified person. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jul 2017 12.39am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

07 Jul 17 12.37am

Originally posted by Jimenez

Plenty of the self employed amongst us do this all the time. It's not just teachers....

I have time for that argument. While private sector pay has taken over public sector that's not true for everyone.

However being a teacher and being self employed don't require the same entry requirements. It's apples and oranges.

To be a qualified teacher you need a degree and then a teacher qualification. All of which is not insignificant.

Teaching does not currently represent a good profession to enter for what is required to enter it.

It's the same with nursing....where requiring a degree has to be one of the most stupid typically short sighted elitist moves the t***s who rule over us have done.

Other public sector jobs represent a poor career choice for other reasons....Still valid ones with issues I don't downplay.

Unless you truly think you can stick out a public sector job until retirement it represents a high risk poor career choice for a qualified person.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jul 2017 12.39am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 07 Jul 17 1.10am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I have time for that argument. While private sector pay has taken over public sector that's not true for everyone. However being a teacher and being self employed don't require the same entry requirements. It's apples and oranges. To be a qualified teacher you need a degree and then a teacher qualification. All of which is not insignificant. Teaching does not currently represent a good profession to enter for what is required to enter it. It's the same with nursing....where requiring a degree has to be one of the most stupid typically short sighted elitist moves the t***s who rule over us have done. Other public sector jobs represent a poor career choice for other reasons....Still valid ones with issues I don't downplay. Unless you truly think you can stick out a public sector job until retirement it represents a high risk poor career choice for a qualified person. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jul 2017 12.39am) I agree but i am willing to bet that a lot of teachers wouldn't last long being self employed purely because running your own business is unprepredictable compared to a more regimented regime of teaching.No rule books (as such ) for entrepreneurs & the like you need to think fast and act faster. The one advantage teachers have is (no matter how much you whinge) you have a monthly salary you can rely on, no such luxury for the Self employed. Plus we are both wealth & job creators.... We need a few more Steve Parish's & their Ilk running the country in my opinion rather than career politicians who wouldn't know how to run a bath without a intensive course at the local college (paid for by poor old taxpayer of course) Edited by Jimenez (07 Jul 2017 1.14am) Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 07 Jul 17 1.10am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I have time for that argument. While private sector pay has taken over public sector that's not true for everyone.

However being a teacher and being self employed don't require the same entry requirements. It's apples and oranges.

To be a qualified teacher you need a degree and then a teacher qualification. All of which is not insignificant.

Teaching does not currently represent a good profession to enter for what is required to enter it.

It's the same with nursing....where requiring a degree has to be one of the most stupid typically short sighted elitist moves the t***s who rule over us have done.

Other public sector jobs represent a poor career choice for other reasons....Still valid ones with issues I don't downplay.

Unless you truly think you can stick out a public sector job until retirement it represents a high risk poor career choice for a qualified person.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jul 2017 12.39am)

I agree but i am willing to bet that a lot of teachers wouldn't last long being self employed purely because running your own business is unprepredictable compared to a more regimented regime of teaching.No rule books (as such ) for entrepreneurs & the like you need to think fast and act faster.
The one advantage teachers have is (no matter how much you whinge) you have a monthly salary you can rely on, no such luxury for the Self employed.
Plus we are both wealth & job creators....
We need a few more Steve Parish's & their Ilk running the country in my opinion rather than career politicians who wouldn't know how to run a bath without a intensive course at the local college (paid for by poor old taxpayer of course)

Edited by Jimenez (07 Jul 2017 1.14am)

Pro USA & Israel

serial thriller The Promised Land 07 Jul 17 2.07am
Originally posted by matt_himself I have been recently reading that due to advances in technology, some jobs will be performed by robots in the near future. One therefore wonders whether teaching will be? A robot could teach a class, it's basically repeating the same information year after year and administer pre-programmed discipline as required. If students submitted their coursework online, the robot would then be able to mark it. Also, robot teachers would not be able to run away with under age girls to France or pass on their dubious political beliefs in the so-called name of 'progressive teaching'. Edited by matt_himself (06 Jul 2017 10.07am) Imagine how badly the piss would be ripped out of a robot by a class of 15 year olds. I mean, the voice alone would be enough to send the robot suicidsl, and if it started getting lippy, just throw water at it! And imagine what miserable cnts we'd all be if we spent 5 to 18 learning algebra with a fcking robot every day? Hard to see C3PO being the fondly-remembered inspirational teacher is it? If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 07 Jul 17 2.07am

Originally posted by matt_himself

I have been recently reading that due to advances in technology, some jobs will be performed by robots in the near future.

One therefore wonders whether teaching will be? A robot could teach a class, it's basically repeating the same information year after year and administer pre-programmed discipline as required. If students submitted their coursework online, the robot would then be able to mark it.

Also, robot teachers would not be able to run away with under age girls to France or pass on their dubious political beliefs in the so-called name of 'progressive teaching'.

Edited by matt_himself (06 Jul 2017 10.07am)

Imagine how badly the piss would be ripped out of a robot by a class of 15 year olds. I mean, the voice alone would be enough to send the robot suicidsl, and if it started getting lippy, just throw water at it!

And imagine what miserable c*nts we'd all be if we spent 5 to 18 learning algebra with a f*cking robot every day? Hard to see C3PO being the fondly-remembered inspirational teacher is it?

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Stirlingsays 07 Jul 17 4.21am
Originally posted by Jimenez I agree but i am willing to bet that a lot of teachers wouldn't last long being self employed purely because running your own business is unprepredictable compared to a more regimented regime of teaching.No rule books (as such ) for entrepreneurs & the like you need to think fast and act faster. The one advantage teachers have is (no matter how much you whinge) you have a monthly salary you can rely on, no such luxury for the Self employed. Plus we are both wealth & job creators.... We need a few more Steve Parish's & their Ilk running the country in my opinion rather than career politicians who wouldn't know how to run a bath without a intensive course at the local college (paid for by poor old taxpayer of course) Edited by Jimenez (07 Jul 2017 1.14am) Yep all true. If you're a chap or lass looking at a career change or a youngster trying to figure out a sensible career to go for it's not an easy environment out there. Then again, I suppose it never was. [Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

07 Jul 17 4.21am

Originally posted by Jimenez

Edited by Jimenez (07 Jul 2017 1.14am)

Yep all true.

If you're a chap or lass looking at a career change or a youngster trying to figure out a sensible career to go for it's not an easy environment out there.

Then again, I suppose it never was.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 07 Jul 17 4.29am
I think Matt has his tongue firmly in his cheek here. Still, the automation point is always an interesting one. I think for motivated, sensible and already reasonably educated adults or talented teenagers automated systems for education can work....hell they are already here and available from providers like Udemy and others. For the less motivated or able teenagers and adults the human interaction of teaching is vital. We are a long long long way off from automation taking over there....But this is true of many jobs that require face to face communication and interactions between humans. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

07 Jul 17 4.29am

I think Matt has his tongue firmly in his cheek here.

Still, the automation point is always an interesting one.

I think for motivated, sensible and already reasonably educated adults or talented teenagers automated systems for education can work....hell they are already here and available from providers like Udemy and others.

For the less motivated or able teenagers and adults the human interaction of teaching is vital. We are a long long long way off from automation taking over there....But this is true of many jobs that require face to face communication and interactions between humans.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

matt_himself Matataland 07 Jul 17 5.27am
Originally posted by serial thriller Imagine how badly the piss would be ripped out of a robot by a class of 15 year olds. I mean, the voice alone would be enough to send the robot suicidsl, and if it started getting lippy, just throw water at it! And imagine what miserable cnts we'd all be if we spent 5 to 18 learning algebra with a fcking robot every day? Hard to see C3PO being the fondly-remembered inspirational teacher is it? At least a robot teacher wouldn't try and touch you up after PE and would probably be much less of a miserable sod/borderline psycho than most of the teachers I encountered during my scholastic years. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 07 Jul 17 5.27am

Originally posted by serial thriller

And imagine what miserable c*nts we'd all be if we spent 5 to 18 learning algebra with a f*cking robot every day? Hard to see C3PO being the fondly-remembered inspirational teacher is it?

At least a robot teacher wouldn't try and touch you up after PE and would probably be much less of a miserable sod/borderline psycho than most of the teachers I encountered during my scholastic years.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

Sportyteacher London 07 Jul 17 9.03am
Originally posted by matt_himself At least a robot teacher wouldn't try and touch you up after PE and would probably be much less of a miserable sod/borderline psycho than most of the teachers I encountered during my scholastic years. Matt: You evidently experienced very poor teaching that even borders on the criminal. Much better teachers nowadays although they'll always be a few bad eggs out there as there are in any other profession.

Sportyteacher

London 07 Jul 17 9.03am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Matt: You evidently experienced very poor teaching that even borders on the criminal. Much better teachers nowadays although they'll always be a few bad eggs out there as there are in any other profession.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jul 17 9.30am
Originally posted by Sportyteacher Matt: You evidently experienced very poor teaching that even borders on the criminal. Much better teachers nowadays although they'll always be a few bad eggs out there as there are in any other profession. No. He's just a WUM.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Jul 17 9.30am

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

No. He's just a WUM.

Hrolf The Ganger 07 Jul 17 9.36am
Originally posted by nickgusset No. He's just a WUM. You obviously weren't at school in the 70's.

Hrolf The Ganger

07 Jul 17 9.36am

Originally posted by nickgusset

No. He's just a WUM.

You obviously weren't at school in the 70's.

jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jul 17 10.40am
Originally posted by Jimenez Plenty of the self employed amongst us do this all the time. It's not just teachers.... Really, I'm self employed and I don't do six hours of free work every night, and if I did, I'd figure it into my charging rates. When my wife was a teacher, she'd get home about 5pm, eat etc then from about 7pm to 11pm plus she'd work on marking planning, preparation, ofstead etc. Five nights a week, for all of term time. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jul 17 10.40am

Originally posted by Jimenez

Plenty of the self employed amongst us do this all the time. It's not just teachers....

Really, I'm self employed and I don't do six hours of free work every night, and if I did, I'd figure it into my charging rates.

When my wife was a teacher, she'd get home about 5pm, eat etc then from about 7pm to 11pm plus she'd work on marking planning, preparation, ofstead etc. Five nights a week, for all of term time.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jul 17 10.43am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I agree....I think that's the most rational approach. Still, we have the problem of a little is never going to be enough anyway. I hope that whatever they come up with works....We need to be a little more German and less Italian.....to use rather enjoyable stereotypes....Well German, apart from their rather easy approach to a form of economic continual indentured servitude for client nations. The problem isn't really being dealt with. When the freeze ends, I can't see the Unions or public sector workers who've been pay frozen for 7 years, just accepting a slight increase - they're going to want, and I think rightly demand, something that compensates for the fact that for nearly a decade they've been losing out year on year in terms of real value. I'd imagine they'd be expecting a significant hike after 10 years of 1%. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jul 17 10.43am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I agree....I think that's the most rational approach. Still, we have the problem of a little is never going to be enough anyway.

The problem isn't really being dealt with. When the freeze ends, I can't see the Unions or public sector workers who've been pay frozen for 7 years, just accepting a slight increase - they're going to want, and I think rightly demand, something that compensates for the fact that for nearly a decade they've been losing out year on year in terms of real value.

I'd imagine they'd be expecting a significant hike after 10 years of 1%.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Johnny Eagles berlin 07 Jul 17 10.44am
Not sure about robots, but it needs lots of reform. And not the progressive, hippy touchy-feely crap of the 1960s or the top-down bureacratic nonsense beloved by politicians. It's crazy that we are still having the same debate about education as we were in the 1960s (people on here have mentioned corporal punishment!) while the world of business and technology has moved on completely. Technology has to some extent entered the classroom, but you just need to look at the way entrepreneurs or blue chip corporates gather and use information, tools and resources to see that (most of) the stuff kids get taught in classrooms is just not useful anymore. Take exams, for example. Teaching kids to hold as much stuff as possible in their heads is not only pointless (we have more information immediately accesible at our fingertips than we could possibly process in a hundred lifetimes), it's counter-productive. Any businessperson worth his salt knows he needs to free his head from mundane information he can keep elsewhere (in a calender, in a database, in the cloud) so he can use his brain for having ideas and thinking in new directions. But we teach kids that they need to memorise stuff. Madness. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

Johnny Eagles

berlin 07 Jul 17 10.44am

Not sure about robots, but it needs lots of reform.

And not the progressive, hippy touchy-feely crap of the 1960s or the top-down bureacratic nonsense beloved by politicians.

It's crazy that we are still having the same debate about education as we were in the 1960s (people on here have mentioned corporal punishment!) while the world of business and technology has moved on completely.

Technology has to some extent entered the classroom, but you just need to look at the way entrepreneurs or blue chip corporates gather and use information, tools and resources to see that (most of) the stuff kids get taught in classrooms is just not useful anymore.

Take exams, for example. Teaching kids to hold as much stuff as possible in their heads is not only pointless (we have more information immediately accesible at our fingertips than we could possibly process in a hundred lifetimes), it's counter-productive. Any businessperson worth his salt knows he needs to free his head from mundane information he can keep elsewhere (in a calender, in a database, in the cloud) so he can use his brain for having ideas and thinking in new directions. But we teach kids that they need to memorise stuff. Madness.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jul 17 10.48am
Originally posted by Jimenez I agree but i am willing to bet that a lot of teachers wouldn't last long being self employed purely because running your own business is unprepredictable compared to a more regimented regime of teaching.No rule books (as such ) for entrepreneurs & the like you need to think fast and act faster. The one advantage teachers have is (no matter how much you whinge) you have a monthly salary you can rely on, no such luxury for the Self employed. Plus we are both wealth & job creators.... We need a few more Steve Parish's & their Ilk running the country in my opinion rather than career politicians who wouldn't know how to run a bath without a intensive course at the local college (paid for by poor old taxpayer of course) Edited by Jimenez (07 Jul 2017 1.14am) I dunno about that, I've worked with a lot of IT trainers who were ex-Teachers, and they seem to be doing very well and loving working less hours. Its not like they're used to working long periods without sickness, holiday, long hours, seemingly endless pointless government paperwork - without having to be responsible for 30 kids. I'd like to see most people try their hand at teaching full time, in a state school, if they think its easy. F**k me, I find self employment to be easier than permanent employment. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jul 17 10.48am

Originally posted by Jimenez

Edited by Jimenez (07 Jul 2017 1.14am)

I dunno about that, I've worked with a lot of IT trainers who were ex-Teachers, and they seem to be doing very well and loving working less hours.

Its not like they're used to working long periods without sickness, holiday, long hours, seemingly endless pointless government paperwork - without having to be responsible for 30 kids.

I'd like to see most people try their hand at teaching full time, in a state school, if they think its easy.

F**k me, I find self employment to be easier than permanent employment.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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