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May 24 2024 12.50pm

Margaret Thatcher

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 09 Apr 13 8.07pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 09 Apr 2013 6.26pm

Quote Willo at 09 Apr 2013 6.23pm

Quote

If you didnt know who she was but saw the list of 'anti's' getting their two penneth in over her corpse then you would have a natural instinct to be on her side purely because of the odious collection lining up

I ask - Where does it come from, this vitriloic loathing? Anti-Thatcherites tell you that it’s because she closed down the old industries. (She didn’t, of course, she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.)

Yet it must surely be patently obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of de-industrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP !!!!

RIP

Willo


Its not so much the closing down, its the manner in which they were closed down, and the population, few of whom voted conservative, were just left to deal with the fact that employment was ripped out almost overnight, leaving hundreds chasing single jobs.



Uneconomic pits have routinely closed since the war, why should uneconomic mining be subsidised when no other industry was, and when from the 1960's we had the benefit ofNorth Sea oil and gas?

 

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View dannyh's Profile dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 09 Apr 13 8.11pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 7.16pm

Quote premier fan at 09 Apr 2013 7.08pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 5.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 4.53pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 4.42pm

The good of the country, is not always the same as what is good for the people of that Country.

Latest example is the austerity measures, the individual will think they are crap I know I do, but it has to happen for the good of the countries economy as a whole. We simply could not have gone on as we were, oh and on the subject of money, you know that rebate we still get from Europe who was Champion for that cause? Ted heath? Tony Benn? Tony Blair even…..not effin likely.

Another mug who has been fooled by the debt defecit narrative. For another thread perhaps, but the country is no worse off than it has been for many many years. Tis just a ruse by the Tories to cut public services.
Even if we believe the lie, how come we were able to build housing and get the economy going again, when debts were much higher, post ww2?


Mug Is it ?

Let me tell you Nick for a teacher you know fcuk all about History, the Americans bailed us out during the War, and after.
Reasonable
And please don't refer to me as a mug just because I chose to believe in real life terms, rather than idealogical bullsh1t you swallow.

Danny, don't take it to heart, socialists always find it hard to conduct a decent argument without bringing down the tone and directing personal insults.


It wasn't a personal insult, that would imply it was directed at one person. It was actually at all those who don't look beyond the news and are happily spoonfed by it.

One man's news report, is another man's poorly worded rhetoric printed on a cheap flyer then posted on the internet.

What you say must be true, how could I have doubted you, with such over whelming proof that socialism is the answer. Nick you’re a bright bloke and I like to think I have my moments, however you steadfastly refuse against all the proof, to accept that she did any good at all.

I freely admit she was a bit of a dragon, and got some things wrong and was over zealous on others, but she did make some very important changes for the good of the country at that time. Whether what she did fell into what is acceptable in your political spectrum is frankly immaterial, it needed doing.

It wasn't until the greedy b******s in her own cabinet conspired against her that her idea of capitalism went too far and unchecked. if you want to hate anyone, hate Heseltine he's the real villain of the peace.

And just so we are absolutely clear, I am no mug, and make my own conclusions from the same media you do, we arrive at different opinions as the world is full of different people, not divided into mugs, and those who think they have all the answers.

Toodle pip.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 09 Apr 13 8.15pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Pinky at 09 Apr 2013 7.52pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 09 Apr 2013 2.46pm

Quote Pinky at 09 Apr 2013 2.42pm

Just checking: is she still dead?


Yes she is....But long before she went she killed your political ideology.

Je suis Marxiste ... tendance Groucho.
Je n'oublie jamais un visage, mais dans votre cas je ferai une exception.

Edited by Pinky (09 Apr 2013 7.59pm)

Raisins verts ..... Même le miroir ne peut pas être dérangé pour vous rappeler votre visage ...... Stirlingsays.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Apr 13 8.17pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 8.11pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 7.16pm

Quote premier fan at 09 Apr 2013 7.08pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 5.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 4.53pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 4.42pm

The good of the country, is not always the same as what is good for the people of that Country.

Latest example is the austerity measures, the individual will think they are crap I know I do, but it has to happen for the good of the countries economy as a whole. We simply could not have gone on as we were, oh and on the subject of money, you know that rebate we still get from Europe who was Champion for that cause? Ted heath? Tony Benn? Tony Blair even…..not effin likely.

Another mug who has been fooled by the debt defecit narrative. For another thread perhaps, but the country is no worse off than it has been for many many years. Tis just a ruse by the Tories to cut public services.
Even if we believe the lie, how come we were able to build housing and get the economy going again, when debts were much higher, post ww2?


Mug Is it ?

Let me tell you Nick for a teacher you know fcuk all about History, the Americans bailed us out during the War, and after.
Reasonable
And please don't refer to me as a mug just because I chose to believe in real life terms, rather than idealogical bullsh1t you swallow.

Danny, don't take it to heart, socialists always find it hard to conduct a decent argument without bringing down the tone and directing personal insults.


It wasn't a personal insult, that would imply it was directed at one person. It was actually at all those who don't look beyond the news and are happily spoonfed by it.

One man's news report, is another man's poorly worded rhetoric printed on a cheap flyer then posted on the internet.

What you say must be true, how could I have doubted you, with such over whelming proof that socialism is the answer. Nick you’re a bright bloke and I like to think I have my moments, however you steadfastly refuse against all the proof, to accept that she did any good at all.

I freely admit she was a bit of a dragon, and got some things wrong and was over zealous on others, but she did make some very important changes for the good of the country at that time. Whether what she did fell into what is acceptable in your political spectrum is frankly immaterial, it needed doing.

It wasn't until the greedy b******s in her own cabinet conspired against her that her idea of capitalism went too far and unchecked. if you want to hate anyone, hate Heseltine he's the real villain of the peace.

And just so we are absolutely clear, I am no mug, and make my own conclusions from the same media you do, we arrive at different opinions as the world is full of different people, not divided into mugs, and those who think they have all the answers.

Toodle pip.

I don't actually hate anyone, if anything, I hate unbridled capitalism that allows the few to do well and let many many others fall by the wayside.
I also hate the way that the media is skewed to turn people against each other in order to deflect from the unbridled capitalism that is going on.

I still maintain we are not being told the full truth of the state of the nations finances in the media, we have been in far worse positions than this yet didn't need to go through these tough austerity measures to get through them.

As for Thatch, maybe she did what she thought was needed, and yes I admit the unions did hold too much sway at the time of her coming into power, but I still think she did more harm than good.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Online Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 09 Apr 13 8.25pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Quote n
but I still think she did more harm than good.

Palpable and utter tosh.

I am not sure one can appreciate the magnitude of Margaret Thatcher’s great achievements without some knowledge of the calamity that immediately preceded it.

Willo

 

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View Johnny Eagles's Profile Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 09 Apr 13 8.45pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 7.16pm

those who don't look beyond the news and are happily spoonfed by it.

From the ultimate in slogan-mongering, unreconstructed pravda loyalists!

I am having this nickgusset post stuffed and mounted on my wall.

 


...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Apr 13 8.53pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Apr 2013 8.45pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 7.16pm

those who don't look beyond the news and are happily spoonfed by it.

From the ultimate in slogan-mongering, unreconstructed pravda loyalists!

I am having this nickgusset post stuffed and mounted on my wall.

If you send it to me, I will sign it for fifty quid.

 

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 09 Apr 13 9.17pm Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 8.07pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 09 Apr 2013 7.52pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 7.46pm

When the Thatch came into power, child poverty stood at 1 in 7, when she left, it was 1 in 3. If that's what you define as success, then you are warped.


My advice would be to look beyond the partisan, distorted report headlines and not to be spoonfed by them.


Touche.

Wasn't in the paper or on the news though was it?

Even worse - a left wing blog!

 

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Catfish Flag Burgess Hill 09 Apr 13 9.25pm

Quote Moose at 08 Apr 2013 12.51pm

Dead.

[Link]

This'll be an interesting day on HOL...

Edited by Moose (08 Apr 2013 12.56pm)


Oh no - when?

 


Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 09 Apr 13 9.27pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 09 Apr 2013 9.17pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 8.07pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 09 Apr 2013 7.52pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 7.46pm

When the Thatch came into power, child poverty stood at 1 in 7, when she left, it was 1 in 3. If that's what you define as success, then you are warped.


My advice would be to look beyond the partisan, distorted report headlines and not to be spoonfed by them.


Touche.

Wasn't in the paper or on the news though was it?

Even worse - a left wing blog!

No from a save the children report on child poverty.
[Link]

child poverty.jpg Attachment: child poverty.jpg (85.23Kb)

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 09 Apr 13 9.28pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 6.25pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 5.53pm

Quote nickgusset at 09 Apr 2013 4.53pm

Quote dannyh at 09 Apr 2013 4.42pm

The good of the country, is not always the same as what is good for the people of that Country.

Latest example is the austerity measures, the individual will think they are crap I know I do, but it has to happen for the good of the countries economy as a whole. We simply could not have gone on as we were, oh and on the subject of money, you know that rebate we still get from Europe who was Champion for that cause? Ted heath? Tony Benn? Tony Blair even…..not effin likely.

Another mug who has been fooled by the debt defecit narrative. For another thread perhaps, but the country is no worse off than it has been for many many years. Tis just a ruse by the Tories to cut public services.
Even if we believe the lie, how come we were able to build housing and get the economy going again, when debts were much higher, post ww2?


Mug Is it ?

Let me tell you Nick for a teacher you know fcuk all about History, the Americans bailed us out during the War, and after.

And please don't refer to me as a mug just because I chose to believe in real life terms, rather than idealogical bullsh1t you swallow.


Apologies. Do you, or anyone else question what is reported in the media?

some of us lived it

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View Penge Eagle's Profile Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 09 Apr 13 9.31pm Send a Private Message to Penge Eagle Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Penge Eagle as a friend

Some facts which people may want to dispute re coal mining industry.

"346,000 miners left the industry between 1963 and 1968, in 1967 there were 12,900 forced redundancies. Under the prime minister during that period, Harold Wilson, one pit closed every week yet there are few people planning trips to his grave with their tap shoes.

"In 1981 an attempt was made to impose cash limits on subsidies to industry. The NUM called for strike action and the Conservatives gave in. £50 million was given to industries which switched from cheap oil to expensive coal, early retirement payments were upped to £36,000 and £200 million was injected into the industry.

"Companies who had gone abroad to buy coal, such as the Central Electricity Generating Board, were banned from bringing it in and 3 million tonnes of coal piled up at Rotterdam at a cost to the British taxpayer of £30 million per year.

"The industry was, by now, losing £1.2 million per day. Its interest payments amounted to £467 million for the year and the NCB needed a grant of £875 million from the taxpayer.

"The Monopolies and Mergers Commission found that 75% of British pits were losing money. The reason wasn’t hard to find. By 1984 it cost £44 to mine a metric ton of British coal. America, Australia and South Africa were selling it on the world market for £32 a metric ton. Productivity increases had come in at 20% below the level set in 1974 Plan for Coal.

"We were subsidising the mining industry to the tune of £1.3 billion a year. This figure doesn’t include the vast cost to taxpayer funded industries such as steel and electricity which were obliged to buy British coal. When Arthur Scargill was called before a Parliamentary committee and asked at what level of loss it was acceptable to close a pit he answered “As far as I can see, the loss is without limits”.

"So the industry had been in decline for decades and was haemorraging cash."

 

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