I don't really know the full details, but didn't the council (government in the sense I am using) agree to cheaper cladding, and although it was less fire retardant, it wasn't illegal? My real point about government in general is that we are over-governed and over-taxed. There are regional governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, County Councils, City Mayors and Councils, Town Councils, Parish, UK Parliament, European Parliament. All with expensive buildings and bureaucracies, all with overlapping responsibilities, half the time working against each other and consuming tax payers' money like alcoholics consume whiskey. We should have the least government that we can safely get away with.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

It's been like this for years though, it's not just the current government. I don't know the full story, but imo the construction company or maintenance company will have known the cladding is against the regulations, and is not fire proof.

Hopefully we will find out the full story with the inquiry. But I doubt we will ever know the true death toll. One of the worst jobs in the world having to count the dead or the remains that are still there. I am going to guess those there illegally might not admit to a certain number of people there also.

Corbyn advising Labour are ready to negotiate Brexit.

The Party that is not in power, and cannot agree between themselves what Brexit they want.

The inquiry is already a stitch-up. The government (who may be to blame) have been allowed to select the judge and the terms of reference. It's like letting a criminal select the charges he faces along with the judge and jury. It's a farce.

Your list of government failings shows how inefficient and incompetent most governments are. Obviously we need government to provide the community with defence, the common facilities and amenities of civilised life, to secure standards of health and education, to guarantee security to its weak or unfortunate members. But government should be kept within bounds, not become the all embracing octopus that the left would like to see controlling every aspect of our lives.
Just saying more government is better is woefully myopic and ignorant of any evidence or the real world.

Edited by hedgehog50 (13 Jul 2017 11.37am)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

I am sure I saw somewhere that it was the Labour party under Tony Blair that allowed Councils to do the fire inspections instead of the Fire Service.

It is also the duty of the construction company to abide by building regulations, if this material was against this then it is the construction company's fault.

Trying to find a way that the PM or her governing body are in any way criminals or guilt because of this incident is quite silly. If it was a Labour government I will be saying the same thing. It's like me knowing there is a law not to stab someone, but I'm going to do it anyway = That is still my fault.

The cuts were made during the Cameron government. But the Cuts would not have made the Fire fighters get there any quicker.

I will also add it is pretty f*cking stupid the Local government will not be monitoring tower blocks like this.

Edited by Hansy (13 Jul 2017 11.33am)

They've still god the bloody magnificent railway system that we built them

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

It's in Labour's interests to get rid of the Tories whatever their individual feelings about Brexit.

Every party will vote against the Tory/DUP alliance and some Tories will vote against one of these bills at some point. The view within the Tory party on Europe is so strongly polarised they can't possibly appease both wings.

This will force May out, force another election and there is no Tory with wide appeal and the country is fed up of Tory austerity and their attitude towards Brexit and most other issues.

You've not really explained why it will be a s*it show to those who voted remain... Looking at it objectively it's been a farce. The Tories have no clue what they are doing and are constantly briefing against one another. They have no policy, no clue, no idea what deal they want, no idea what "no deal" looks like. It's frankly quite worrying. As previously stated I was a reluctant remainer, but in the right hands think Brexit could be successful. These aren't the right hands. They are dangerous.

In 1986, Thatcher’s government changed building regulations surrounding materials used on the outside of buildings. And these alterations meant that anything used did not have to be non-combustible. This meant flammable materials could legally be used to clad tower blocks.

In 2005, Labour changed regulations for inspecting buildings for fire safety. This duty was taken away from the fire brigade and given to a “responsible person”. The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 changed fire inspection and safety duties to a “responsible person”. But this was not fully applicable to domestic premises such as Grenfell Tower. Where it was applicable, the “responsible person” became the local authority.

The 2013 Coroner’s Report following the Lakanal House fire criticises the then Communities Secretary Eric Pickles and the coalition government for not dealing with “uncertainty about the scope of inspection for fire risk assessment purposes which should be undertaken in high rise residential buildings”. It said the government needed to provide “clear guidance” on this; something which didn’t happen and which the Fire Sector Federation said in 2015 was still “long overdue an overhaul”.

This government have repeatedly ignored warnings that fire regulations needed updating. And they have failed to act on advice from parliamentary groups and industry professionals.

This crime was wholly avoidable if government had taken the responsible steps rather than sitting on their hands for fear of upsetting powerful property industry lobbies. It's interesting to note that property companies were the Tories largest source of corporate donations in the run up to the recent election. The industry gave Labour £8,500. Who do you think the Tories really represent?

It will be the same on Brexit. They will act in the interests of those who provide their funding - large corporations and wealthy individuals.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (13 Jul 2017 5.10pm)

But Labour recently voted against their own policy of staying in the single market. How do you explain that? You say the Tories are confused on how to appease both wings, that's because they are the ones actually negotiating it. Labour aren't negotiating it but are still split.

Every party won't vote against it. If that is the case, we will have seen more people in favour of Chucka's proposal. Chucka split the party, Corbyn sacked some front benchers too, this will be dire for Labour if they do come in to power.

It may force May out if what you say actually happens. But then the Tories will have a much stronger candidate and Labour will be stuck with Corbyn who with an excellent campaign couldn't beat a absolutely terrible campaign ran by May. I say stuck because half Labour MPs don't agree with him.