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hedgehog50 Croydon 23 Aug 17 6.41pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Eurozone recovering with inward investment and in particular manufacturing growth with factory closures 19% up. Pound on the slide against the euro looks now like a permanent devaluation. Investment on hold in the UK as result of brexit the Chancellor admits. Is that good? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 23 Aug 17 6.41pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Eurozone recovering with inward investment and in particular manufacturing growth with factory closures 19% up.

Pound on the slide against the euro looks now like a permanent devaluation.

Investment on hold in the UK as result of brexit the Chancellor admits.

Is that good?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

chris123 hove actually 23 Aug 17 6.55pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Is that good? Yes I think steely was expecting many more closures, so clearly good news eh!

chris123

hove actually 23 Aug 17 6.55pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Is that good?

Yes I think steely was expecting many more closures, so clearly good news eh!

matt_himself Matataland 24 Aug 17 8.21am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Haha can't believe it. The only thing left for the brexiteers is 'taking back control' now that is gone too. Be far better off staying in the EU with the power of the veto. If you'd bothered to read what was being proposed you would understand that it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain. I am all in favour of an arbitration provision being in place as the EU cannot be trusted in its negotiations and will find ways to try to screw us, look at the €100bn divorce bill Barnier pulled from his arse. Having an independent vehicle to settle disputes is good for the UK. Edited by matt_himself (24 Aug 2017 8.22am) "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 24 Aug 17 8.21am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Haha can't believe it.

The only thing left for the brexiteers is 'taking back control' now that is gone too.

Be far better off staying in the EU with the power of the veto.

If you'd bothered to read what was being proposed you would understand that it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain.

I am all in favour of an arbitration provision being in place as the EU cannot be trusted in its negotiations and will find ways to try to screw us, look at the €100bn divorce bill Barnier pulled from his arse. Having an independent vehicle to settle disputes is good for the UK.

Edited by matt_himself (24 Aug 2017 8.22am)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

steeleye20 Croydon 24 Aug 17 11.01am
it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain. An 'arbtration position' means the UK would not be in full control of its law.

steeleye20

Croydon 24 Aug 17 11.01am

it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain.

An 'arbtration position' means the UK would not be in full control of its law.

chris123 hove actually 24 Aug 17 11.17am
Originally posted by steeleye20 it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain. An 'arbtration position' means the UK would not be in full control of its law. You're making up words now.

chris123

hove actually 24 Aug 17 11.17am

Originally posted by steeleye20

it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain.

An 'arbtration position' means the UK would not be in full control of its law.

You're making up words now.

matt_himself Matataland 24 Aug 17 11.56am
Originally posted by steeleye20 it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain. An 'arbtration position' means the UK would not be in full control of its law. You obviously don't know what 'conflict', 'law' or 'arbitration' mean. They don't mean the ECJ adjudicating or applying laws on Britain post Brexit. You just want to believe that is the case because it suits your position. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 24 Aug 17 11.56am

Originally posted by steeleye20

it is an arbitration provision, not having the ECJ direct laws in Britain.

An 'arbtration position' means the UK would not be in full control of its law.

You obviously don't know what 'conflict', 'law' or 'arbitration' mean. They don't mean the ECJ adjudicating or applying laws on Britain post Brexit. You just want to believe that is the case because it suits your position.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 24 Aug 17 2.43pm
Originally posted by matt_himself You obviously don't know what 'conflict', 'law' or 'arbitration' mean. They don't mean the ECJ adjudicating or applying laws on Britain post Brexit. You just want to believe that is the case because it suits your position. The ECJ have never had the position to apply laws in Britain, they mere;y advise on questions asked by British courts on European laws. [Link] This was one of many aspects of the EU that the Exit supporters misrepresented to the electorate which were false. I used to be immortal

crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 24 Aug 17 2.43pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

The ECJ have never had the position to apply laws in Britain, they mere;y advise on questions asked by British courts on European laws.

[Link]

This was one of many aspects of the EU that the Exit supporters misrepresented to the electorate which were false.

I used to be immortal

crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 24 Aug 17 2.45pm
Originally posted by crystal balls The ECJ have never had the position to apply laws in Britain, they mere;y advise on questions asked by British courts on European laws. [Link] This was one of many aspects of the EU that the Exit supporters misrepresented to the electorate which were false. However, for Sir David, it is not just May's unrealistic promises regarding the ECJ that have left him frustrated, but signs that both she and the government don't fully understand its purpose and remit. "The ECJ does not have 'direct jurisdiction' in or over the UK," the former ECJ judge tells BI. "What it has is the jurisdiction to answer questions regarding the interpretation and application of EU law. In so far as the UK is bound by EU law, then the ECJ interpretation is binding on the UK. Correspondingly, UK courts that seek to know what the correct law is can put the question to the ECJ. The ECJ doesn't have any other jurisdiction in the UK other than to answer questions put to it by UK courts." Edited by crystal balls (24 Aug 2017 2.46pm) I used to be immortal

crystal balls

The Garden of Earthly Delights 24 Aug 17 2.45pm

Originally posted by crystal balls

The ECJ have never had the position to apply laws in Britain, they mere;y advise on questions asked by British courts on European laws.

[Link]

This was one of many aspects of the EU that the Exit supporters misrepresented to the electorate which were false.

However, for Sir David, it is not just May's unrealistic promises regarding the ECJ that have left him frustrated, but signs that both she and the government don't fully understand its purpose and remit. "The ECJ does not have 'direct jurisdiction' in or over the UK," the former ECJ judge tells BI.

"What it has is the jurisdiction to answer questions regarding the interpretation and application of EU law. In so far as the UK is bound by EU law, then the ECJ interpretation is binding on the UK. Correspondingly, UK courts that seek to know what the correct law is can put the question to the ECJ. The ECJ doesn't have any other jurisdiction in the UK other than to answer questions put to it by UK courts."

Edited by crystal balls (24 Aug 2017 2.46pm)

I used to be immortal

matt_himself Matataland 24 Aug 17 3.09pm
Originally posted by crystal balls The ECJ have never had the position to apply laws in Britain, they mere;y advise on questions asked by British courts on European laws. [Link] This was one of many aspects of the EU that the Exit supporters misrepresented to the electorate which were false. I didn't say the ECJ did, I was replying to Steeleye's uneducated post. Both sides misrepresented facts during the vote. Remain were just as culpable as Leave in this respect. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 24 Aug 17 3.09pm

Originally posted by crystal balls

The ECJ have never had the position to apply laws in Britain, they mere;y advise on questions asked by British courts on European laws.

[Link]

This was one of many aspects of the EU that the Exit supporters misrepresented to the electorate which were false.

I didn't say the ECJ did, I was replying to Steeleye's uneducated post.

Both sides misrepresented facts during the vote. Remain were just as culpable as Leave in this respect.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

steeleye20 Croydon 24 Aug 17 3.25pm
Originally posted by matt_himself You obviously don't know what 'conflict', 'law' or 'arbitration' mean. They don't mean the ECJ adjudicating or applying laws on Britain post Brexit. You just want to believe that is the case because it suits your position. Arbitration means the UK is not in control laws may be decided by arbitration, whoever that means not the UK or ECJ I would think. But the UK is not in charge of its own law in that case. that is what arbitration means.

steeleye20

Croydon 24 Aug 17 3.25pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

Arbitration means the UK is not in control laws may be decided by arbitration, whoever that means not the UK or ECJ I would think.

But the UK is not in charge of its own law in that case.

that is what arbitration means.

steeleye20 Croydon 24 Aug 17 3.29pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Is that good? Apologies factory starts are 19% up in the EU - is it because Germany Italy France are attracting investment in preference to us because the UK is now more of a risk? No need to hold back as far as they are concerned but here is just too uncertain.

steeleye20

Croydon 24 Aug 17 3.29pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Is that good?

Apologies factory starts are 19% up in the EU - is it because Germany Italy France are attracting investment in preference to us because the UK is now more of a risk?

No need to hold back as far as they are concerned but here is just too uncertain.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 Aug 17 4.17pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Arbitration means the UK is not in control laws may be decided by arbitration, whoever that means not the UK or ECJ I would think. But the UK is not in charge of its own law in that case. that is what arbitration means. I wonder if ACAS will get involved if negotiations stall.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 24 Aug 17 4.17pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Arbitration means the UK is not in control laws may be decided by arbitration, whoever that means not the UK or ECJ I would think.

But the UK is not in charge of its own law in that case.

that is what arbitration means.

I wonder if ACAS will get involved if negotiations stall.

matt_himself Matataland 24 Aug 17 4.41pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Arbitration means the UK is not in control laws may be decided by arbitration, whoever that means not the UK or ECJ I would think. But the UK is not in charge of its own law in that case. that is what arbitration means. Then you are wrong and don't understand what arbitration means. Jog on. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 24 Aug 17 4.41pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Arbitration means the UK is not in control laws may be decided by arbitration, whoever that means not the UK or ECJ I would think.

But the UK is not in charge of its own law in that case.

that is what arbitration means.

Then you are wrong and don't understand what arbitration means.

Jog on.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

hedgehog50 Croydon 24 Aug 17 6.03pm
EU immigration down - good start. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 24 Aug 17 6.03pm

EU immigration down - good start.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

steeleye20 Croydon 24 Aug 17 7.55pm
I never had any problems and made many friends while working in Europe. However if I had not been welcome I would have been out of there pretty quickly. Sorry to M arbitration means what the dictionary says and the UK will not be in control of its laws in fact less in control.

steeleye20

Croydon 24 Aug 17 7.55pm

I never had any problems and made many friends while working in Europe.

However if I had not been welcome I would have been out of there pretty quickly.

Sorry to M arbitration means what the dictionary says and the UK will not be in control of its laws in fact less in control.

matt_himself Matataland 24 Aug 17 8.46pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I never had any problems and made many friends while working in Europe. However if I had not been welcome I would have been out of there pretty quickly. Sorry to M arbitration means what the dictionary says and the UK will not be in control of its laws in fact less in control. Utter crap. Britain will be in control of its laws. Arbitration is there to resolve disputes. It is a very common and a much trusted method of dispute resolution because it encourages compromise and is generally adjudicated by impartial umpires. Plus the resolution is binding. You have not a clue what you are talking about. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 24 Aug 17 8.46pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I never had any problems and made many friends while working in Europe.

However if I had not been welcome I would have been out of there pretty quickly.

Sorry to M arbitration means what the dictionary says and the UK will not be in control of its laws in fact less in control.

Utter crap. Britain will be in control of its laws. Arbitration is there to resolve disputes. It is a very common and a much trusted method of dispute resolution because it encourages compromise and is generally adjudicated by impartial umpires. Plus the resolution is binding.

You have not a clue what you are talking about.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 Aug 17 10.15pm
Arbitration \| Define Arbitration at Dictionary.com [Link] arbitration definition. The settling of disputes (especially labor disputes) between two parties by an impartial third party, whose decision the contending parties agree to accept. Arbitration is often used to resolve conflict diplomatically to prevent a more serious confrontation. If a citizen has recourse to go to arbitration against a government law / decision, then surely the government doesn't have complete control. Quite right too. Edited by nickgusset (24 Aug 2017 10.19pm)

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 24 Aug 17 10.15pm

Arbitration | Define Arbitration at Dictionary.com
[Link]
arbitration definition. The settling of disputes (especially labor disputes) between two parties by an impartial third party, whose decision the contending parties agree to accept. Arbitration is often used to resolve conflict diplomatically to prevent a more serious confrontation.

If a citizen has recourse to go to arbitration against a government law / decision, then surely the government doesn't have complete control.
Quite right too.

Edited by nickgusset (24 Aug 2017 10.19pm)

steeleye20 Croydon 25 Aug 17 10.35am
Boris Johnson concedes UK will have to pay for Brexit Foreign secretary says UK will meet legal obligations to pay divorce bill to EU, having previously said it could ‘go whistle’

steeleye20

Croydon 25 Aug 17 10.35am

Boris Johnson concedes UK will have to pay for Brexit
Foreign secretary says UK will meet legal obligations to pay divorce bill to EU, having previously said it could ‘go whistle’

hedgehog50 Croydon 25 Aug 17 10.55am
Originally posted by steeleye20 Boris Johnson concedes UK will have to pay for Brexit Foreign secretary says UK will meet legal obligations to pay divorce bill to EU, having previously said it could ‘go whistle’ What he actually said is: "We are law-abiding, bill-paying people ... we should pay not a penny more, not a penny less, of what we think our legal obligations amount to.” The Remoaner spin is pretty pathetic really. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 25 Aug 17 10.55am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Boris Johnson concedes UK will have to pay for Brexit
Foreign secretary says UK will meet legal obligations to pay divorce bill to EU, having previously said it could ‘go whistle’

What he actually said is:

"We are law-abiding, bill-paying people ... we should pay not a penny more, not a penny less, of what we think our legal obligations amount to.”

The Remoaner spin is pretty pathetic really.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Aug 17 12.21pm
After Grenfell, this is a kick in the teeth. [Link]

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 25 Aug 17 12.21pm

After Grenfell, this is a kick in the teeth.

[Link]

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