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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
When you look at Labour now it brings into sharp focus just how much they mega fecked themselves when they voted in the wrong Milliband. Once Ed changed the election rules the far more left wing party membership have pretty much ensured Tory dominance for the foreseeable future. The real irony is that it was Mandelson's mob who were pushing for the rule change as they thought it would be the next step in ensuring their dominance in the party. I mean, it's easy to to forget just how incompetent that section of the party is. Granted, they were/are way more effective at spin, but in terms of substance, they really were flakier than f*cking filo pastry. They thought the best candidate to beat Corbyn was Owen Smith. Owen Smith! Do most people even remember who he is!?
Edited by serial thriller (26 Apr 2017 9.42am)
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Thanks for that "evidence". I take it you're surprised the EU are acting in their own interests? I imagine I can take what you've said as a guarantee these brilliant deals will happen? Trump and May actually signed something? A binding commitment?? Given we don't live in a world as imagined by Ricardo (which the Tories still seem to think we do) I'd much rather someone else was in control of our trade arrangement yes. Where capital can move freely and labour cannot it creates inefficiency and low productivity of labour where that labour is less competitive than equivalent labour across borders. This means that such labour becomes less productive and earns less and makes inequality even worse. "The way in which globalisation has been managed has led to lower wages in part because workers’ bargaining power has been eviscerated. With capital highly mobile— and with tariffs low— firms can simply tell workers that if they don’t accept lower wages and worse working conditions, the company will move elsewhere. To see how asymmetric globalisation can affect bargaining power, imagine, for a moment, what the world would be like if there was free mobility of labour, but no mobility of capital. Countries would compete to attract workers. They would promise good schools and a good environment, as well as low taxes on workers. This could be financed by high taxes on capital. But that’s not the world we live in." Those who want globalised capital markets but nationalistic labour markets are advocating making the lives of the working classes worse. The main policy I keep hearing from the Tories is that May's a strong stable leader. Really? Is that what it's come down to? We'll make your lives worse if you're poorer than our mates but we have a strong leader so that's the main thing. How depressing. All the data and sensible realistic theory shows how bad a job these guys have done and will continue to do! It is absolutely imperative that we have certainty and stability through Brexit negotiations and beyond.
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Originally posted by Willo
It is absolutely imperative that we have certainty and stability through Brexit negotiations and beyond. The last time you lot went on a platform of stability was under Cameron. He then presided over the hugest f*ck up and instability since the war. I honestly think a Monster Raving Loony Party leadership wouldbe more stable than 5 more years of austerity and hard brexit.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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Originally posted by Willo
It is absolutely imperative that we have certainty and stability through Brexit negotiations and beyond.
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Originally posted by serial thriller
The last time you lot went on a platform of stability was under Cameron. He then presided over the hugest f*ck up and instability since the war. I honestly think a Monster Raving Loony Party leadership wouldbe more stable than 5 more years of austerity and hard brexit. Absolute hogwash of course.
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Originally posted by Willo
It is absolutely imperative that we have certainty and stability through Brexit negotiations and beyond. How can you say that with any certainty? That's incredibly disrespectful to the electorate. Have you learned nothing from recent electoral history? Just on Sunday neither of the main two parties made it through to the presidential run off in France. Last year the polls got it wrong with alarming regularity and they got it wrong with large margins of error. This is from the man who believes referees do no wrong so I'm hardly surprised. If you think the best reason to vote for Tories is that May is a more stable choice then that ignores all of the issues and many of the facts. What's the point in stability if it's a stable slide into the abyss? I'm not advocating instability by any means but just saying May will be a more stable choice is vapid and based on little of any substance.
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Originally posted by DanH
As I totaly agree with the sentiments it is natural that I post in such fashion. Strong and stable leadership v weak and unstable coalition of chaos under Corbyn and his comrades.
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Originally posted by Willo
As I totaly agree with the sentiments it is natural that I post in such fashion. Strong and stable leadership v weak and unstable coalition of chaos under Corbyn and his comrades.
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
How can you say that with any certainty? That's incredibly disrespectful to the electorate. Have you learned nothing from recent electoral history? Just on Sunday neither of the main two parties made it through to the presidential run off in France. Last year the polls got it wrong with alarming regularity and they got it wrong with large margins of error. This is from the man who believes referees do no wrong so I'm hardly surprised. If you think the best reason to vote for Tories is that May is a more stable choice then that ignores all of the issues and many of the facts. What's the point in stability if it's a stable slide into the abyss? I'm not advocating instability by any means but just saying May will be a more stable choice is vapid and based on little of any substance. Where have I said it is the "Best reason" ? There are number of reasons why the electorate should vote for Mrs May and the Conservatives, one of which of course is to keep Corbyn and his 'Merry band' of comrades well away from power. What a dreadful prospect that is and I suspect this will be reflected in the election result. Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2017 10.08am)
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
How can you say that with any certainty? That's incredibly disrespectful to the electorate. Have you learned nothing from recent electoral history? Just on Sunday neither of the main two parties made it through to the presidential run off in France. Last year the polls got it wrong with alarming regularity and they got it wrong with large margins of error. This is from the man who believes referees do no wrong so I'm hardly surprised. Please don't spout inaccuracies in an attempt to strengthen your case. Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2017 10.24am)
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Originally posted by Willo
Where have I said it is the "Best reason" ? There are number of reasons why the electorate should vote for Mrs May and the Conservatives, one of which of course is to keep Corbyn and his 'Merry band' of comrades well away from power. What a dreadful prospect that is and I suspect this will be reflected in the election result. Edited by Willo (26 Apr 2017 10.08am)
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I don't have to respond to each and every point raised on here especially if I think it is risible in the extreme, Jerry Paxman. At times 'Dignifying' errant hogwash hogwash is not the best policy.
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Originally posted by Willo
Absolute hogwash of course.
Interested to know in what way that is 'hogwash'? It is a fact you said Cameron would provide strong stable government (against the 'nightmare' of Ed Milliband propped up by the SNP) and it is certainly a fact that the last 18 months since that election have been amongst the least politically stable in living memory. So I don't see how you can claim any of it was hogwash. You might think that May is the better option for government. I might even agree with you. But Serial has you absolutely bang-to-rights over your previous comments.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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Originally posted by OknotOK
Interested to know in what way that is 'hogwash'? It is a fact you said Cameron would provide strong stable government (against the 'nightmare' of Ed Milliband propped up by the SNP) and it is certainly a fact that the last 18 months since that election have been amongst the least politically stable in living memory. So I don't see how you can claim any of it was hogwash. You might think that May is the better option for government. I might even agree with you. But Serial has you absolutely bang-to-rights over your previous comments. What on earth are you going on about ? You might agree with his view and dismiss mine - you are entitled to your opinion.
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Originally posted by Kermit8
I like Willo but he is obviously one of those snob Tory voters and the thought of contemplating an alternative is anathema. Most middle-class, or aspiring middle-class, Tory supporters are exactly the same in my experience. Without them The Tory Party would wither and die. So when the Conservative Party do their usual party pieces of targeting those who can least afford it, it all ties in quite nicely. Applaud those in power who undermine the socially-conscious and turn a blind eye to others in power who despise the vulnerable. Self-affirmation, innit. Bedroom Tax, lowering of Working Tax credits and lack of mental health care provision are just three examples, of many, of their iniquitous policies over the years. To be fair, that cuts both ways - you only have to look at some of the posts on here to see that, "Tory cunds" being used as an insult. It's insulting in some eyes just to be a Tory voter. It's less important what they are proposing or doing than the fact it's 'them' proposing it. For the record, I'm not voting Tory, but you get the point, there are blinkered people on all sides of politics and even more so in their supporters.
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Originally posted by Kermit8
I like Willo but he is obviously one of those snob Tory voters and the thought of contemplating an alternative is anathema. Most middle-class, or aspiring middle-class, Tory supporters are exactly the same in my experience. Without them The Tory Party would wither and die. So when the Conservative Party do their usual party pieces of targeting those who can least afford it, it all ties in quite nicely. Applaud those in power who undermine the socially-conscious and turn a blind eye to others in power who despise the vulnerable. Self-affirmation, innit. Bedroom Tax, lowering of Working Tax credits and lack of mental health care provision are just three examples, of many, of their iniquitous policies over the years. I don't think you realise how many working class people do vote Tory and have done certainly since the late 70s. Nothing wrong with being aspirational, it is the contempt shown for people that want to get on that is one of Labour's great undoings. It's not about trying to change our "class" (I am working class), it is about improving our lot. Blair got that and largely addressed it but since then, back to normal.
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| nickgusset |
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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
I don't think you realise how many working class people do vote Tory and have done certainly since the late 70s. Nothing wrong with being aspirational, it is the contempt shown for people that want to get on that is one of Labour's great undoings. It's not about trying to change our "class" (I am working class), it is about improving our lot. Blair got that and largely addressed it but since then, back to normal.
Where do you get the idea that Labour show contempt for aspiration? Complete bollocks.
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Where do you get the idea that Labour show contempt for aspiration? Complete bollocks. Labour don't like the old or aspirational because if you become old or better off you generally don't vote Labour.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Labour don't like the old or aspirational because if you become old or better off you generally don't vote Labour. That hasn't been true for a long time still stuck in the past with your prejudices.
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