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The Election Thread
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 Matov  17 Nov 19 11.30am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Other countries too but they don't have brexit weighing them down all the time. They also don't have 27 other countries having an effective veto over their trade policy.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 17 Nov 19 11.37am |
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Originally posted by dollardays
Yes, it's certainly a much better idea than the broadband one. The cost to the NHS of people not looking after these teeth is immense, and if people knew they could at least get a free clean, and in indication of any problems present and the consequences of leaving them, they would have the opportunity to make better choices. Healthspan is just as important as lifespan, and many if not most people are positively negligent when it comes to taking basic steps to ensure that they stay fit and well. Dental check-ups are already free for those who cannot afford to pay. Labour will once again bill taxpayers hundreds of millions to extend provision to people who have the means to afford it.The cost has been estimated as £450 Million,each year. Edited by Willo (17 Nov 2019 11.40am)
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| steeleye20 Croydon 17 Nov 19 11.45am |
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Originally posted by Matov
They also don't have 27 other countries having an effective veto over their trade policy. Why not visit the brexit thread and tell us what our trading position would have been on 1st November. Trump - no thanks UK.
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| Midlands Eagle 17 Nov 19 11.49am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Dental check-ups are already free for those who cannot afford to pay. Only in theory as that only applies to NHS dental practices and they seem to be rarer than hen's teeth nowadays
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| Stirlingsays 17 Nov 19 11.50am |
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Originally posted by dollardays
Yes, it's certainly a much better idea than the broadband one. The cost to the NHS of people not looking after these teeth is immense, and if people knew they could at least get a free clean, and in indication of any problems present and the consequences of leaving them, they would have the opportunity to make better choices. Healthspan is just as important as lifespan, and many if not most people are positively negligent when it comes to taking basic steps to ensure that they stay fit and well.
I'm being a bit harsh to a well meaning post but that all comes across as a bit patronising. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Nov 2019 11.52am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 17 Nov 19 11.52am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Dental check-ups are already free for those who cannot afford to pay. Labour will once again bill taxpayers hundreds of millions to extend provision to people who have the means to afford it.The cost has been estimated as £450 Million,each year. Edited by Willo (17 Nov 2019 11.40am) You will not get NHS treatment free anywhere. It was about £250 to start with, not sure now, the proposal is to remove the first tier only to encourage better dental health which is very necessary. I don't think that will cost very much. Remember most of us pay for the NHS through taxation. The cost, if true from W, of 450 millions, would only buy you a few feet of HS2 railway track.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Nov 19 11.56am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You will not get NHS treatment free anywhere. It was about £250 to start with, not sure now, the proposal is to remove the first tier only to encourage better dental health which is very necessary. I don't think that will cost very much. Remember most of us pay for the NHS through taxation.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 17 Nov 19 12.21pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I'm being a bit harsh to a well meaning post but that all comes across as a bit patronising. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Nov 2019 11.52am) The bulk of the NHS budget goes on fixing health problems we should be preventing. Japan puts a large amount of taxpayer money into keeping people healthy which is more cost effective then having to cure them. I would rather we do the same and yes that maybe nanny state but as it's the taxpayers money I would rather its spend on teaching people how to cook and stay fit than paying for some lard arse' multiple medications for blood pressure diabetes , cholesterol etc. All so can continue to trash their bodies at out expense.
One more point |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 17 Nov 19 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You will not get NHS treatment free anywhere. It was about £250 to start with, not sure now, the proposal is to remove the first tier only to encourage better dental health which is very necessary. I don't think that will cost very much. Remember most of us pay for the NHS through taxation. The cost, if true from W, of 450 millions, would only buy you a few feet of HS2 railway track.
Furthermore if one is in receipt of income benefits, or if one is under 20 and a dependant of someone in recept of low income benefits
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| Invalid user 2019 17 Nov 19 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The bulk of the NHS budget goes on fixing health problems we should be preventing. Japan puts a large amount of taxpayer money into keeping people healthy which is more cost effective then having to cure them. I would rather we do the same and yes that maybe nanny state but as it's the taxpayers money I would rather its spend on teaching people how to cook and stay fit than paying for some lard arse' multiple medications for blood pressure diabetes , cholesterol etc. All so can continue to trash their bodies at out expense.
Well said. Healthspan is just as important as lifespan and I'm sure we've all seen firsthand the misery and cost that long term health concerns can bring, to both the individual and the state. With the strain on the health care system as it is, it's better if it's there for actual needs, rather than the wants of people who can't be bothered to look after themselves and want the rest of us to pick up the tab. As you correctly say, countries and cultures that take health seriously have the right idea. Anything that encourages people to have a health check, whether it's this proposed dental check, or the existing NHS health check every five years is a positive in my book. Many health problems that blight lives are unavoidable, and it makes a lot more sense to realise that before quality of life tanks rather than after. Anyway, my main point was that the broadband idea sounded ridiculous, like a perk a bank might offer, but the right for all to have this free dental check at least has something going for it, in that it encourages positive habits and better health.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Nov 19 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The bulk of the NHS budget goes on fixing health problems we should be preventing. Japan puts a large amount of taxpayer money into keeping people healthy which is more cost effective then having to cure them. I would rather we do the same and yes that maybe nanny state but as it's the taxpayers money I would rather its spend on teaching people how to cook and stay fit than paying for some lard arse' multiple medications for blood pressure diabetes , cholesterol etc. All so can continue to trash their bodies at out expense.
People don't work like that....can you tell me a successful example of the nanny state?. Waste of time. Incentives work, the nanny state doesn't. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Nov 2019 2.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 17 Nov 19 2.12pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
To be fair, having an initial check-up free of cost is probably not a bad idea. But Corbyn is a dead duck. Watched him on the Marr show this morning and if he is preparing the ground for Labours manifesto pledges on immigration, it is all over for him. Utter insanity. Not only effectively keeping freedom of movement but also a lot about this 'family reunion' idea. Which is about making it easier for non-EU migrants to come to the UK. I simply cannot fathom how Labour think either idea is going to sell well on the door-steps. Labour did fantastically well in 2017 based around them not actually committing to much at all. To them backing Brexit and by default, ending freedom of movement. Where do they see the gains they need to make coming from? Perhaps there is all some cunning master plan being played out here but Brexit is the foremost issue in this election. With the underlying narrative a desire for it all to be over. All Labour are offering is more Brexit and more immigration. It beggers belief, it really does. He really was very unimpressive under scrutiny from Andrew Marr. In terms of Brexit, they want to negotiate a deal whereby the UK remains in the Customs Union and Single Market with of course the freedom of movement this entails which in effect is staying in the EU.Their 'Confirmatory referendum' will be either Remain or Remain.
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| Invalid user 2019 17 Nov 19 2.16pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Certainly can't accuse Jeremy Corbyn of not planning for brexit, he has an allotment. All he has to do with food and medecine shortages, is pop up to his plot and use his own products!!!!
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| Invalid user 2019 17 Nov 19 2.17pm |
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Certainty to vote: 18-34 years 49%, 35-54 years 72%, 55+ 75% (IpsosMORI)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 17 Nov 19 2.17pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
To be fair, having an initial check-up free of cost is probably not a bad idea. But Corbyn is a dead duck. Watched him on the Marr show this morning and if he is preparing the ground for Labours manifesto pledges on immigration, it is all over for him. Utter insanity. Not only effectively keeping freedom of movement but also a lot about this 'family reunion' idea. Which is about making it easier for non-EU migrants to come to the UK. I simply cannot fathom how Labour think either idea is going to sell well on the door-steps. Labour did fantastically well in 2017 based around them not actually committing to much at all. To them backing Brexit and by default, ending freedom of movement. Where do they see the gains they need to make coming from? Perhaps there is all some cunning master plan being played out here but Brexit is the foremost issue in this election. With the underlying narrative a desire for it all to be over. All Labour are offering is more Brexit and more immigration. It beggers belief, it really does. People complain that politicians don't stick to their principles. Corbyn on freedom of movement is doing just that. You can agree or disagree, but he is at least being transparent. The Tories have tried to play the immigration card for years and in reality done little to achieve the targets they espouse. As for this election, there is something very interesting and unreported happening in the polls. Predicted turnout for young people is being seriously underestimated, with most pollsters suggesting it will be lower than 2017. Why? This generation is more politicised than many previous ones, with climate change, tuition fees and brexit. It looks like the mistakes of 2017 are being repeated, I think this election will be lot closer than many think.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| chris123 hove actually 17 Nov 19 2.30pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
To be fair, having an initial check-up free of cost is probably not a bad idea. But Corbyn is a dead duck. Watched him on the Marr show this morning and if he is preparing the ground for Labours manifesto pledges on immigration, it is all over for him. Utter insanity. Not only effectively keeping freedom of movement but also a lot about this 'family reunion' idea. Which is about making it easier for non-EU migrants to come to the UK. I simply cannot fathom how Labour think either idea is going to sell well on the door-steps. Labour did fantastically well in 2017 based around them not actually committing to much at all. To them backing Brexit and by default, ending freedom of movement. Where do they see the gains they need to make coming from? Perhaps there is all some cunning master plan being played out here but Brexit is the foremost issue in this election. With the underlying narrative a desire for it all to be over. All Labour are offering is more Brexit and more immigration. It beggers belief, it really does. I think deep down he's really an activist and far more comfortable opposing stuff.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 17 Nov 19 2.31pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
People complain that politicians don't stick to their principles. Corbyn on freedom of movement is doing just that. You can agree or disagree, but he is at least being transparent. The Tories have tried to play the immigration card for years and in reality done little to achieve the targets they espouse. As for this election, there is something very interesting and unreported happening in the polls. Predicted turnout for young people is being seriously underestimated, with most pollsters suggesting it will be lower than 2017. Why? This generation is more politicised than many previous ones, with climate change, tuition fees and brexit. It looks like the mistakes of 2017 are being repeated, I think this election will be lot closer than many think. At the last election Labour put out a message of abolishing student debt then retracted under scrutiny and said it wasn't a promise at all.
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