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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 13 Oct 17 1.33pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Junckers is simply saying that the arrangements for UK nationals and for EU nationals residing in the UK should have stayed as they were.

The mistreatment of EU nationals here in the UK is a real stumbling block IMO and the UK will be in the dock, deservedly so.



Given we've seen the stats on this thread today that most Brexit voters were hoping to "take back control" rather than kick out Johnny Foreigner I don't understand why Brexit voters would have a problem with doing exactly as Juncker suggested and confirming that EU nationals would be allowed to stay right off the bat. Using them as bargaining chips is a disgrace, and a poor tactic. There are other things we can leverage. People's lives should not be one of them.

 
steeleye20 Flag Croydon 13 Oct 17 1.52pm

Originally posted by npn

Here's a question: let's suppose Brexit could be stopped (regardless of the rights and wrongs). We withdraw Article 50 (which I understand we would be allowed to do), what do you reckon the ongoing relationship with the EU would be like? Do we just accept the fact that we ought to be there for our own good an nothing else, start using all the treaty items which we haven't done before (throwing out unemployed EU nationals, for instance, vetoing anything we don't like, etc)

Would the relationship ever work?


I don't think there is a real problem with simply cancelling brexit and the EU are keeping the door ajar.

We are in the EU and the relationship just continues.

Lot of hot air first but really a relief.

 
chris123 Flag hove actually 13 Oct 17 3.44pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle


No I'm not. The UK has it's own credit rating, which is AA2. The EU has a credit rating as it has a central bank which is capable of issuing bonds which are guaranteed by the 28 member states. With the majority of agencies the EU's rating is AAA.

If you want to apply your logic the EU's rating will actually IMPROVE once Britain leaves as its poor rating is dragging down the average of the EU's collective rating.

And so does France, Italy and Spain - and we're the same as France and better than Italy and Spain and we're all behind Germany.

 
CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 13 Oct 17 4.12pm

Originally posted by chris123

And so does France, Italy and Spain - and we're the same as France and better than Italy and Spain and we're all behind Germany.


France, Italy and Spain aren't about to leave the EU though. So they can continue to benefit from the club rate (AAA). They also have better growth.

Pretending debt is an issue with the EU to a greater extent than the UK is laughable.

 
CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 13 Oct 17 4.13pm

 
chris123 Flag hove actually 13 Oct 17 4.16pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle


France, Italy and Spain aren't about to leave the EU though. So they can continue to benefit from the club rate (AAA). They also have better growth.

Pretending debt is an issue with the EU to a greater extent than the UK is laughable.

Then why do Italy and Spain have lower credit ratings than Germany, France and the UK?

 
steeleye20 Flag Croydon 13 Oct 17 4.51pm

Originally posted by chris123

Then why do Italy and Spain have lower credit ratings than Germany, France and the UK?

I think all these countries have no answer to debt other than to borrow more and more hoping there will never be a time when lenders will not lend or call the debt in.

Live for today let others pay tomorrow is that it, or not pay tomorrow perhaps.

As the ad says 'you do the maths'.

Maybe this is the way it will be in future no matter how daft or wrong.

 
chris123 Flag hove actually 13 Oct 17 6.04pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think all these countries have no answer to debt other than to borrow more and more hoping there will never be a time when lenders will not lend or call the debt in.

Live for today let others pay tomorrow is that it, or not pay tomorrow perhaps.

As the ad says 'you do the maths'.

Maybe this is the way it will be in future no matter how daft or wrong.

The agencies are quoting on Government debt - not citizens.

 
hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 Oct 17 6.37pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Wow, what a sophisticated graph - definitely needs graphics to get across its message.

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 13 Oct 17 6.40pm

John Redwood was on the TV this morning talking a great deal of sense on Brexit, despite the attempts of Chuka Umunna to shout him down.

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
Kermit8 Flag Hevon 13 Oct 17 6.41pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

John Redwood was on the TV this morning talking a great deal of sense on Brexit, despite the attempts of Chuka Umunna to shout him down.

At last. He must have said "It is a sh1t idea. Everything is pointing down. I was wrong". Good on you, John.

 

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]
Stirlingsays Flag 13 Oct 17 6.47pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

At last. He must have said "It is a sh1t idea. Everything is pointing down. I was wrong". Good on you, John.

I'm loving this.

We rolling......Remainers still hating.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Kermit8 Flag Hevon 13 Oct 17 6.51pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm loving this.

We rolling......Remainers still hating.


S'alright we will be back in 10 years if it all goes t1ts up which is looking a bit likely at the mo'. I can wait.

 

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]
Stirlingsays Flag 13 Oct 17 6.53pm

Originally posted by Kermit8


S'alright we will be back in 10 years if it all goes t1ts up which is looking a bit likely at the mo'. I can wait.

Lay back and think of that haggis Kermy....it's going to be a bumpy but enjoyable ride.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Kermit8 Flag Hevon 13 Oct 17 6.55pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Lay back and think of that haggis Kermy....it's going to be a bumpy but enjoyable ride.

That's what Capt. Smith said

 

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]
Stirlingsays Flag 13 Oct 17 7.29pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

That's what Capt. Smith said

Cor blimey son....cheer up!

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 13 Oct 17 8.38pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I am not surprised by this...

The talks were always going to go badly. In no way can the EU give us a good deal because other EU countries will want to leave too! From an EU perspective, it makes no sense to give the UK what it wants.

SO... It's up to the Tory PR team to shout from the rooftops the benefits of no deal, for which there are many. However, they are so useless, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited by Penge Eagle (13 Oct 2017 8.39pm)

 
chris123 Flag hove actually 13 Oct 17 9.20pm

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

I am not surprised by this...

The talks were always going to go badly. In no way can the EU give us a good deal because other EU countries will want to leave too! From an EU perspective, it makes no sense to give the UK what it wants.

SO... It's up to the Tory PR team to shout from the rooftops the benefits of no deal, for which there are many. However, they are so useless, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited by Penge Eagle (13 Oct 2017 8.39pm)

The EU have nothing to gain from no deal, they need the divorce settlement - they're only actually meeting every four weeks or so, this needs to be ratcheted rightup to continuous talks in my view. Angela Merkel has a problem putting a coalition together now the SPD want to oppose - so it's a CDU/Green plus anyone but AfD. Domestic issues in Spain plus the reforms Macron plans - all major players have issues at home. We should threaten to send in Boris if there's not sigificant progress by the new year.

 
steeleye20 Flag Croydon 13 Oct 17 9.21pm

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

I am not surprised by this...

The talks were always going to go badly. In no way can the EU give us a good deal because other EU countries will want to leave too! From an EU perspective, it makes no sense to give the UK what it wants.

SO... It's up to the Tory PR team to shout from the rooftops the benefits of no deal, for which there are many. However, they are so useless, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited by Penge Eagle (13 Oct 2017 8.39pm)

There are no benefits in 'no deal' for them to shout about.

Neither are there any benefits in leaving the EU at all.

Why are the govt. planning to further indulge their debt mania because of 'no deal'?

If 'no deal' is beneficial then why would it be necessary to borrow any more at all, what would it be for?


 
Mapletree Flag Croydon 13 Oct 17 11.52pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Lay back and think of that haggis Kermy....it's going to be a bumpy but enjoyable ride.

Don’t be daft. There will be nothing to enjoy. We are all going to have to get used to a weaker economy. There won’t be a bounce back, at least not in my working life.

Perhaps my grandchildren will thank this generation. And enjoy their jobs in porcine aviation.

 
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