Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 21 Oct 23 3.18pm
Wisbech and I nearly agree on something,....must have a lie down Although methods of warfare have developed and changed with technology over the centuries, you would maybe hope that the (deliberate) targeting of civilians would be behind us. If these were 'elites' being held hostage, shot, starved, you can bet progress to resolve the situation would have been completed almost overnight. It's almost like civilian casualties are to be expected. Not to me. A soldiers death holds just as much value. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 21 Oct 23 3.18pm

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Wisbech and I nearly agree on something,....must have a lie down
Although methods of warfare have developed and changed with technology over the centuries, you would maybe hope that the (deliberate) targeting of civilians would be behind us.

If these were 'elites' being held hostage, shot, starved, you can bet progress to resolve the situation would have been completed almost overnight.
It's almost like civilian casualties are to be expected.

Not to me.

A soldiers death holds just as much value.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 21 Oct 23 5.02pm
It might be just me. Maybe it is. But I feel in reading Media coverage in the last 12 hours, there is less of a partisan slant since the "Arabs had a word". Hoping common sense and humanitarian considerations trump everything. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Oct 2023 5.02pm) "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 21 Oct 23 5.02pm

It might be just me. Maybe it is. But I feel in reading Media coverage in the last 12 hours, there is less of a partisan slant since the "Arabs had a word".
Hoping common sense and humanitarian considerations trump everything.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Oct 2023 5.02pm)

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Stirlingsays 21 Oct 23 5.16pm
I think one of Israel's main problems with currying favour with the left (or most western establishment media) is that they are seen as white and European....a kind of throwback to racial colonialism. There's a kind of irony there that many in the DR could comment on but I'll plow on. No matter how basic, one eyed and reductionist way it is to look at it that just seems to be how they feel about it....Many would argue with some weight that this perspective is just not true (I defer comment). However, I think its what the middle and higher class left believe and just like facts don't care about your feelings....the stronger truth is that feelings don't care about your facts. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Oct 2023 5.20pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Oct 23 5.16pm

I think one of Israel's main problems with currying favour with the left (or most western establishment media) is that they are seen as white and European....a kind of throwback to racial colonialism.

There's a kind of irony there that many in the DR could comment on but I'll plow on.

No matter how basic, one eyed and reductionist way it is to look at it that just seems to be how they feel about it....Many would argue with some weight that this perspective is just not true (I defer comment). However, I think its what the middle and higher class left believe and just like facts don't care about your feelings....the stronger truth is that feelings don't care about your facts.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Oct 2023 5.20pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 21 Oct 23 5.19pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly It might be just me. Maybe it is. But I feel in reading Media coverage in the last 12 hours, there is less of a partisan slant since the "Arabs had a word". Hoping common sense and humanitarian considerations trump everything. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Oct 2023 5.02pm) Watching Piers Morgan's move to a less strident certainty has been somewhat vaguely interesting. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Oct 23 5.19pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (21 Oct 2023 5.02pm)

Watching Piers Morgan's move to a less strident certainty has been somewhat vaguely interesting.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 21 Oct 23 6.38pm
While obviously people can champion the Palestinian cause and all that and it's obvious that the mainstream media largely do....It's also telling that few people talk about the conquering that the Islamic world engaged in and the persecution that continues within them. The Ottoman empire lasted longer than the British, had massively more slaves and I might add treated them far more harshly and ruthlessly murdered its way through its empire. However, none of that excuses anyone killing anyone else. [Tweet Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Oct 23 6.38pm

While obviously people can champion the Palestinian cause and all that and it's obvious that the mainstream media largely do....It's also telling that few people talk about the conquering that the Islamic world engaged in and the persecution that continues within them.

The Ottoman empire lasted longer than the British, had massively more slaves and I might add treated them far more harshly and ruthlessly murdered its way through its empire.

However, none of that excuses anyone killing anyone else.

[Tweet Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 23 Oct 23 10.43am
The Arab countries have already warned against escalation. But Israel is embarking on just such a process, and have said ,..Israel's defence minister says the campaign could take "one month, two months, three months... at the end there will be no more Hamas" And the starving, denying of water and medical aid to Palestinian people goes on. And they're being bombed too. Is this not ethnic cleansing ? How will Israel know when Hamas is destroyed ? "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 23 Oct 23 10.43am

The Arab countries have already warned against escalation. But Israel is embarking on just such a process, and have said ,..Israel's defence minister says the campaign could take "one month, two months, three months... at the end there will be no more Hamas"

And the starving, denying of water and medical aid to Palestinian people goes on. And they're being bombed too.
Is this not ethnic cleansing ?
How will Israel know when Hamas is destroyed ?

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Henry of Peckham Eton Mess 23 Oct 23 12.13pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly The Arab countries have already warned against escalation. But Israel is embarking on just such a process, and have said ,..Israel's defence minister says the campaign could take "one month, two months, three months... at the end there will be no more Hamas" And the starving, denying of water and medical aid to Palestinian people goes on. And they're being bombed too. Is this not ethnic cleansing ? How will Israel know when Hamas is destroyed ? Presumably it means taking out their known leadership, dismantling their munitions supply lines and manufacturing, and incapacitating Hamas ability to launch mass acts of terrorism? Of all people, the Israelis should recognise this has to be done within the rules of war ... but it is a war. Denial is not just a river in Egypt
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Eton Mess 23 Oct 23 12.13pm

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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

And the starving, denying of water and medical aid to Palestinian people goes on. And they're being bombed too.
Is this not ethnic cleansing ?
How will Israel know when Hamas is destroyed ?

Presumably it means taking out their known leadership, dismantling their munitions supply lines and manufacturing, and incapacitating Hamas ability to launch mass acts of terrorism? Of all people, the Israelis should recognise this has to be done within the rules of war ... but it is a war.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 23 Oct 23 1.02pm
Life in Gaza/Israel only a few years ago: My friend who worked there saw the daily routine of , Daily power cuts in Gaza (controlled totally by Israel) Blatant daily discrimination against Palestinians in relation to food supplies, transport, hospital attendance where Palestinians were only served after all the Jewish. Water supplies interrupted (again, controlled by Israel). And of course Palestinian youth throwing stones as Israeli military and getting shot for their trouble. Expanding the Israeli borders by bulldozing of Palestinians settlements and building of Israeli townships. It was an apartheid situation, which was tolerated by the West and steadily caused increasing concern to the UN (who says Israel has been acting illegally) and the Arab countries, who are now voicing concern. The increasing tension between Israel and Hamas this year went largely unreported by the media, which is why the Hamas terrorist atrocities seemed to come out of the blue. The only positive I can see coming from this, is that we might get an agreed and defined Israel Palestine border that is fixed, And people can start re-building their lives. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 23 Oct 23 1.02pm

Life in Gaza/Israel only a few years ago:
My friend who worked there saw the daily routine of ,

Daily power cuts in Gaza (controlled totally by Israel)
Blatant daily discrimination against Palestinians in relation to food supplies, transport, hospital attendance where Palestinians were only served after all the Jewish.
Water supplies interrupted (again, controlled by Israel).

And of course Palestinian youth throwing stones as Israeli military and getting shot for their trouble.
Expanding the Israeli borders by bulldozing of Palestinians settlements and building of Israeli townships.

It was an apartheid situation, which was tolerated by the West and steadily caused increasing concern to the UN (who says Israel has been acting illegally) and the Arab countries, who are now voicing concern.
The increasing tension between Israel and Hamas this year went largely unreported by the media, which is why the Hamas terrorist atrocities seemed to come out of the blue.

The only positive I can see coming from this, is that we might get an agreed and defined Israel Palestine border that is fixed, And people can start re-building their lives.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Sheks Crows Eye Virginia 23 Oct 23 2.46pm
[Tweet Link] The “moderate” Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas putting forth the Kazar hypothesis, justifying Hitler’s actions towards the Jews because they charged too much interest. But yes, keep thinking Israel can live with Hamas, who in turn thinks this guy is a Jew lover. The two state solution is dead. Edited by Sheks Crows Eye (23 Oct 2023 2.55pm)
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Sheks Crows Eye

Virginia 23 Oct 23 2.46pm

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[Tweet Link]

The “moderate” Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas putting forth the Kazar hypothesis, justifying Hitler’s actions towards the Jews because they charged too much interest.

But yes, keep thinking Israel can live with Hamas, who in turn thinks this guy is a Jew lover.

The two state solution is dead.

Edited by Sheks Crows Eye (23 Oct 2023 2.55pm)

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dreamwaverider London 23 Oct 23 3.28pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Life in Gaza/Israel only a few years ago: My friend who worked there saw the daily routine of , Daily power cuts in Gaza (controlled totally by Israel) Blatant daily discrimination against Palestinians in relation to food supplies, transport, hospital attendance where Palestinians were only served after all the Jewish. Water supplies interrupted (again, controlled by Israel). And of course Palestinian youth throwing stones as Israeli military and getting shot for their trouble. Expanding the Israeli borders by bulldozing of Palestinians settlements and building of Israeli townships. It was an apartheid situation, which was tolerated by the West and steadily caused increasing concern to the UN (who says Israel has been acting illegally) and the Arab countries, who are now voicing concern. The increasing tension between Israel and Hamas this year went largely unreported by the media, which is why the Hamas terrorist atrocities seemed to come out of the blue. The only positive I can see coming from this, is that we might get an agreed and defined Israel Palestine border that is fixed, And people can start re-building their lives. Wishful thinking. Just can't see it. Look at the two sides supporters here. They just hate one another. That angst must be multiplied many times out there. Miles off any genuine reconciliation for a long while to come. Edited by dreamwaverider (23 Oct 2023 3.34pm)
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London 23 Oct 23 3.28pm

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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Life in Gaza/Israel only a few years ago:
My friend who worked there saw the daily routine of ,

The only positive I can see coming from this, is that we might get an agreed and defined Israel Palestine border that is fixed, And people can start re-building their lives.

Wishful thinking. Just can't see it.
Look at the two sides supporters here. They just hate one another. That angst must be multiplied many times out there. Miles off any genuine reconciliation for a long while to come.

Edited by dreamwaverider (23 Oct 2023 3.34pm)

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Stirlingsays 23 Oct 23 4.33pm
[Tweet Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Oct 23 4.33pm

[Tweet Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Oct 23 8.29pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Life in Gaza/Israel only a few years ago: My friend who worked there saw the daily routine of , Daily power cuts in Gaza (controlled totally by Israel) Blatant daily discrimination against Palestinians in relation to food supplies, transport, hospital attendance where Palestinians were only served after all the Jewish. Water supplies interrupted (again, controlled by Israel). And of course Palestinian youth throwing stones as Israeli military and getting shot for their trouble. Expanding the Israeli borders by bulldozing of Palestinians settlements and building of Israeli townships. It was an apartheid situation, which was tolerated by the West and steadily caused increasing concern to the UN (who says Israel has been acting illegally) and the Arab countries, who are now voicing concern. The increasing tension between Israel and Hamas this year went largely unreported by the media, which is why the Hamas terrorist atrocities seemed to come out of the blue. The only positive I can see coming from this, is that we might get an agreed and defined Israel Palestine border that is fixed, And people can start re-building their lives. We do agree over this. Whilst no one could be anything other than appalled at what Hamas did 2 weeks ago Israel bears a heavy responsibility for creating the circumstances which brought such hatred about. The only positive thing I can see coming from this is that the need to find a long term sustainable solution has become into ever greater sharp focus and that the pressure on Israel from the rest of the world, and especially the USA, to agree to seek one is likely to become intense. Israel are losing the propaganda war. Hopefully they will understand that and allow fuel, food, water and medicines into Gaza to begin to get back some degree of control over their justifications for seeking to eliminate Hamas. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Oct 23 8.29pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Life in Gaza/Israel only a few years ago:
My friend who worked there saw the daily routine of ,

The only positive I can see coming from this, is that we might get an agreed and defined Israel Palestine border that is fixed, And people can start re-building their lives.

We do agree over this.

Whilst no one could be anything other than appalled at what Hamas did 2 weeks ago Israel bears a heavy responsibility for creating the circumstances which brought such hatred about.

The only positive thing I can see coming from this is that the need to find a long term sustainable solution has become into ever greater sharp focus and that the pressure on Israel from the rest of the world, and especially the USA, to agree to seek one is likely to become intense.

Israel are losing the propaganda war. Hopefully they will understand that and allow fuel, food, water and medicines into Gaza to begin to get back some degree of control over their justifications for seeking to eliminate Hamas.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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