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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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-TUX- Flag Alphabettispaghetti 19 May 16 9.42am

Originally posted by DanH

By the same people that were behind 9/11 and the moon landing?

Nah, just 9/11.

 

Time to move forward together.
davenotamonkey Flag 19 May 16 9.48am

Originally posted by crystal balls

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Tony Blair's speech writer, who also happened to be lead author of "the" immigration speech by Barbara Roche (then Minister of Immigration) that opened up the floodgates:

[Link]

Claims subsequently verified via a 2010 Freedom of Information request of draft copies of the policy paper, referring extensively to "social objectives" that did not appear in the final copy. The stated aims of the paper are to make the UK "multicultural" via mass migration, but to obfuscate from the public the reasons why they were opening the floodgates. Your denial is living testament to that aim.

I don't even know why I'm bothering. Left-wing multiculties are deaf to evidence, and blind to the effects. Let's all sit down and sing kumbaya.


I think the point of this has somehow eluded you; it matters not what some Evening Standard journalist wrote in 2009, in 2016 there are clearly not enough old white men who want Britain out of the EU to carry the referendum for Brexit, so to broaden their appeal to the voters they put a younger, articulate black woman on the panel next to Farage. He then bangs on about "rubbing our noses in multi-culturalism"; at a stroke alienating thousands if not millions of the people they are trying to appeal to.

Further, Ms Mitchell then called him out saying "this has been the problem with people of ethnic diversity voting leave"

Farage shot most of his toes off in the run up to the general election; now most of his left foot is gone. Soon he won't have a leg to stand on!


Edited by crystal balls (19 May 2016 6.46am)

Indeed it matters not what the ES said, nor (evidently) the chief speechwriter for New Labour said of the policy.

All that matters is Nigel Farage repeated (almost verbatim) those same words. That then permits people like you to not only dogpile onto him, but conveniently conflate "diversity" with "there is a black women sat next to you".

This is exactly why Labour was, and remains fcuked. Election results have demonstrated they have alienated their core vote, and the North are abandoning Labour in droves. Who needs to shoot off your foot, when you've stepped on a landmine.

Finally, to the point. I've not watched a single debate in this run up, where remain have been polled as winning it. Point me to some - I've been disappointed with their level of debate this far, as have the audience. Is the Mirror debate online in full yet? To the chagrin of the Mirror it was polled as a leave victory, but presumably under a somewhat select audience. I would be really interested to see the Remain argument put forward in debate well enough that it had swayed the audience. If you know of one, link appreciated.

 
Hoof Hearted 19 May 16 10.05am

Originally posted by Kermit8

Latest Mori poll: 1,000 randomly asked

Remain a member of the European Union: 48%

Leave the European Union: 35%

Undecided: 14%

Would not vote:3%

I make that 65% idiots/potential idiots according to monkeychops and 35% the enlightened, sensible brave new world few also according to monkeychops.


[Link]

Edited by Kermit8 (18 May 2016 10.05pm)

You really seem to have lost it latelyMichael.

Referring to Dave as monkeychops?

He's shown you up in a straight forward questions and answers debate, so now you try to discredit him by calling him childish names!

Come on mate... get a grip and debate like an adult, as you used to do.

This is sad to see.

 
DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 19 May 16 10.52am

the most important decision in your life, this is a must watch [Link]

 

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 19 May 16 10.58am

We are now subjects of a vastly complex state machine run by anonymous officials whom we didn't elect but have the power to impose on us, laws we haven't debated and have no demographic means of appealing. The whole EU state is anti-demographic

 

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 19 May 16 11.11am

If you want for yourself/children/grandchildren etc etc further moves into a European "Super state" with GB a mere "State", increased diktats from the EU affecting governance of our country, increased and uncontrolled migration from an ever expanding EU affecting our education/health/housing systems etc etc then vote "Remain".Yes I could go on and on but I will leave it at this !

 
Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 19 May 16 11.12am

Originally posted by DanH

By the same people that were behind 9/11 and the moon landing?

No, more like Kennedy's election in 1960.

And it's far easier to rig a referendum than a General Election - ask the Scots and the Irish.

 

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
DanH Flag SW2 19 May 16 11.22am

Originally posted by Willo

If you want for yourself/children/grandchildren etc etc further moves into a European "Super state" with GB a mere "State", increased diktats from the EU affecting governance of our country, increased and uncontrolled migration from an ever expanding EU affecting our education/health/housing systems etc etc then vote "Remain".Yes I could go on and on but I will leave it at this !


Excellent. Remain it is.

 
DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 19 May 16 12.09pm

Anyone that votes to stay in will one day wake up and say to themselves, what the hell have I done!
I now realise that yes the politicians are all just puppets controlled by oligarchy families such as the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
Who also control the courts, the educational institutions, the food, the natural resources, the foreign policies, the economies and the money of most nations. And, control the major media, which is why I know nothing about them.

People voting in are scared, weak sheep who are unable to fathom life without someone holding their hand. They believe that when they get a parking ticket, they deserved it and, isn't it good that if they pay with 14 days, only have to pay half the amount.
People voting in have no spine or drive or inspiration. They are happy to go through our ridiculous education system that force stops you at the age of 5 to be a free thinker, pounds the left side of your brain 5 days a week with useless crap. Until one day you hear your master say 'girls and boys you have 2 hours to complete this paper, please pick up your pen'. At which point you are suppose to spew out the crap you've been fed on to the paper. If you do it well, you get rewarded, and mummy thinks you are very clever and thinks you will be rewarded with a good job. But the truth is it's not a good job and they are just get stuck on a ferries wheel..

However, if you are truly bright and able to think for yourself you will find you can win fights, lead teams, create wealth and happiness.
We have some great freethinkers very close to us at the club, Parish, Browett, Martin Long to name a few - All intelligent men who are able to take on the world without mummy holding their hands.

So you decide, vote in if your a mummys boy, scared to challenge anything in your boring life. Or vote out if you truly want make a positive change for future generations and allow people to think freely and live independent lives.

 

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 19 May 16 12.33pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

Anyone that votes to stay in will one day wake up and say to themselves, what the hell have I done!
I now realise that yes the politicians are all just puppets controlled by oligarchy families such as the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
Who also control the courts, the educational institutions, the food, the natural resources, the foreign policies, the economies and the money of most nations. And, control the major media, which is why I know nothing about them.

People voting in are scared, weak sheep who are unable to fathom life without someone holding their hand. They believe that when they get a parking ticket, they deserved it and, isn't it good that if they pay with 14 days, only have to pay half the amount.
People voting in have no spine or drive or inspiration. They are happy to go through our ridiculous education system that force stops you at the age of 5 to be a free thinker, pounds the left side of your brain 5 days a week with useless crap. Until one day you hear your master say 'girls and boys you have 2 hours to complete this paper, please pick up your pen'. At which point you are suppose to spew out the crap you've been fed on to the paper. If you do it well, you get rewarded, and mummy thinks you are very clever and thinks you will be rewarded with a good job. But the truth is it's not a good job and they are just get stuck on a ferries wheel..

However, if you are truly bright and able to think for yourself you will find you can win fights, lead teams, create wealth and happiness.
We have some great freethinkers very close to us at the club, Parish, Browett, Martin Long to name a few - All intelligent men who are able to take on the world without mummy holding their hands.

So you decide, vote in if your a mummys boy, scared to challenge anything in your boring life. Or vote out if you truly want make a positive change for future generations and allow people to think freely and live independent lives.

'Vote out, or you're a mummy's boy' - a true classic.

 
DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 19 May 16 12.46pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

'Vote out, or you're a mummy's boy' - a true classic.

If you are under 30 it's too late, you will vote in as you've already been brainwashed. No one can help you I'm afraid your lives are over. Like the Manic Street Preachers said: "If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next"

 

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 19 May 16 12.50pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

If you are under 30 it's too late, you will vote in as you've already been brainwashed. No one can help you I'm afraid your lives are over. Like the Manic Street Preachers said: "If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next"

Damn.

 
jabber Flag pease pottage 19 May 16 12.52pm

Originally posted by DanH


Excellent. Remain it is.

Cancel that vote. I'm out now.

 
Rubin Flag 19 May 16 1.27pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

the most important decision in your life, this is a must watch [Link]

Have those voting to remain on here watched this? It's quite important to get the other side of the argument.

 
dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 19 May 16 1.36pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

You really seem to have lost it latelyMichael.

Referring to Dave as monkeychops?

He's shown you up in a straight forward questions and answers debate, so now you try to discredit him by calling him childish names!

Come on mate... get a grip and debate like an adult, as you used to do.

This is sad to see.

Already called him on that one hoof old buddy, said "it was just japes" not convinced meself.

 

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
npn Flag Crowborough 19 May 16 1.48pm

Here's something fundamental nobody has yet addressed to my satisfaction:

Cameron et al all continue to refer to it as "remaining in a reformed EU". Could somebody (from either camp) kindly explain what theses reforms are and how they will be achieved, because from what I can see, when Dave went to renegotiate, wielding the biggest stick at our disposal (i.e. "help me convince my people to stay in" he seems to have been told in no uncertain terms to do one (may be unfair, I think he has a promise of use of the comfy chair in EU meetings, and chocolate Hobnobs as the biscuit of choice).

For all those saying "we don't know what it will be like if we leave" I say "we don't actually know what it will be like if we stay - though I suspect it will be exactly as it is now with no reform of note, and no successful audit".

Just for clarity, I'm still on the fence. I do see many benefits in being a member of a large European trade block, but I also see a lot of drawbacks with the current status quo (and as it stands, it's a sh*t organisation in many ways). The arrogance and fear-mongering of the remainers is doing my head in (I'm desperately trying not to let them sway me, because the only direction they look like moving me is towards the exit, and I want to decide based on reasonable arguments, not just because I'm fed up of hearing "if you vote out you must be a war monger, racist, or loony".

So, anybody, what reforms are going to take place, when, and how?

 
JohnyBoy Flag 19 May 16 1.56pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

Anyone that votes to stay in will one day wake up and say to themselves, what the hell have I done!
I now realise that yes the politicians are all just puppets controlled by oligarchy families such as the Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
Who also control the courts, the educational institutions, the food, the natural resources, the foreign policies, the economies and the money of most nations. And, control the major media, which is why I know nothing about them.

People voting in are scared, weak sheep who are unable to fathom life without someone holding their hand. They believe that when they get a parking ticket, they deserved it and, isn't it good that if they pay with 14 days, only have to pay half the amount.
People voting in have no spine or drive or inspiration. They are happy to go through our ridiculous education system that force stops you at the age of 5 to be a free thinker, pounds the left side of your brain 5 days a week with useless crap. Until one day you hear your master say 'girls and boys you have 2 hours to complete this paper, please pick up your pen'. At which point you are suppose to spew out the crap you've been fed on to the paper. If you do it well, you get rewarded, and mummy thinks you are very clever and thinks you will be rewarded with a good job. But the truth is it's not a good job and they are just get stuck on a ferries wheel..

However, if you are truly bright and able to think for yourself you will find you can win fights, lead teams, create wealth and happiness.
We have some great freethinkers very close to us at the club, Parish, Browett, Martin Long to name a few - All intelligent men who are able to take on the world without mummy holding their hands.

So you decide, vote in if your a mummys boy, scared to challenge anything in your boring life. Or vote out if you truly want make a positive change for future generations and allow people to think freely and live independent lives.

I have to say this one made me laugh or cry maybe, but perhaps we should pay attention to our mums rather than angry white disestablishment male types who see no value in education who, if they manage to get their misinformation believed would make us all as miserable as them....but anti-intellectualism really isnt that cool is it when you consider what the leave vote really is about
Higher enemployment
Higher inflation
Higher interest rates
Falling property prices
Reduced funding for public services (including NHS, pensions, education, defence, welfare and transport)
We would lose the right to live, work and retire abroad (except if you are rich enough)
Increased risk of terrorism (according to MI6)
Reduced investment/jobs from foreign companies (e.g what Bloomberg and Fujitsu have said this morning.)
Reduced workers rights e.g. paternity leave
£4300 worse off per household (assuming average 2 adult family earning £23.5k pa)
Customs duties re-introduced
Co-ordinated defence/peace policy which has helped Europe achieve the longest period of peace since roman times.
Higher debt servicing costs (currently 6% of public spending likely rising to 9-10%)
Co-ordinated environmental policy (pollution has no boundaries)
A say in the rules and regulations we would still have to comply with if we want to continue to trade with europe.
Trade tarrifs re-introduced (probably at WTO levels 15-20%)
Against the advice of all major independent institutions (imf, oecd, world bank, treasury, atleast 90% of economists, all living PM's and former PM's, all major political parties except UKIP, DUP & respect party)

Are remain voters all really little mummys boys?? Really?? Or is it just fanciful thinking by those leave voters on there downers that an immigrant free Britain would bring some kind of depressed utopia....and they think if they throw in a little bit of name-calling that we will come round to their irrational way of thinking...Really?


 
JohnyBoy Flag 19 May 16 2.13pm

Originally posted by Rubin

Have those voting to remain on here watched this? It's quite important to get the other side of the argument.

I think i have responded to this one before Rubin, but if we do a quick sum: the treasury says we will be 4300 worse off per household if we leave. If there are 19million households in the UK that makes £81billion a year that equates to £1.5billion per week. If i take the highest figure from the leave campaign i.e 350 million pw (and assume we get no rebates or anything back) that still leaves us £1.22 billion per week better off.
Additionally if you take the IMF assessment that our Gdp could fall by 9.5%)....and you assume that departments public expenditure remains at the same percentages, thiz means there would be a reduction of £14 billion for the NHS pa
Its a similar picture for every public service in the event of a leave vote, the NHS, education, pensions welfare etc would all be considerably poorer

 
johnfirewall Flag 19 May 16 2.20pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Higher enemployment
Higher inflation
Higher interest rates
Falling property prices
Reduced funding for public services (including NHS, pensions, education, defence, welfare and transport)
We would lose the right to live, work and retire abroad (except if you are rich enough)
Increased risk of terrorism (according to MI6)
Reduced investment/jobs from foreign companies (e.g what Bloomberg and Fujitsu have said this morning.)
Reduced workers rights e.g. paternity leave
£4300 worse off per household (assuming average 2 adult family earning £23.5k pa)
Customs duties re-introduced
Co-ordinated defence/peace policy which has helped Europe achieve the longest period of peace since roman times.
Higher debt servicing costs (currently 6% of public spending likely rising to 9-10%)
Co-ordinated environmental policy (pollution has no boundaries)
A say in the rules and regulations we would still have to comply with if we want to continue to trade with europe.
Trade tarrifs re-introduced (probably at WTO levels 15-20%)
Against the advice of all major independent institutions (imf, oecd, world bank, treasury, atleast 90% of economists, all living PM's and former PM's, all major political parties except UKIP, DUP & respect party)

All guesses at best.

Even the last part which would be quite easy to substantiate is incorrect.

What the hell is the debt figure based on? Presumably another guess on Gilt ratings.

 
Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 19 May 16 2.55pm

Originally posted by npn

Cameron et al all continue to refer to it as "remaining in a reformed EU". Could somebody (from either camp) kindly explain what theses reforms are and how they will be achieved, because from what I can see, when Dave went to renegotiate, wielding the biggest stick at our disposal (i.e. "help me convince my people to stay in" he seems to have been told in no uncertain terms to do one (may be unfair, I think he has a promise of use of the comfy chair in EU meetings, and chocolate Hobnobs as the biscuit of choice).

As the erudite Jacob Rees-Mogg said "Thin gruel watered down".
And at the end of the day 10% of "Diddly squat" is "Diddly Squat".
And what about all this "I rule nothing out..." ?


 
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