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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 1.54pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle In any other walk of life he'd have been sacked by now. An incredibly important job and he's not fit for purpose. He's also a complete hypocrite. What impact assessment? [Link] Edited by nickgusset (06 Dec 2017 2.21pm) Attachment: IMG_20171206_142016.jpg (43.83Kb)

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 1.54pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

In any other walk of life he'd have been sacked by now. An incredibly important job and he's not fit for purpose. He's also a complete hypocrite.

What impact assessment? [Link]

Edited by nickgusset (06 Dec 2017 2.21pm)

Attachment: IMG_20171206_142016.jpg (43.83Kb)

Stuk Top half 06 Dec 17 3.43pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, it's part of Ireland. It' just in the UK. So people from Northern Ireland are Irish not British. Hence their automatic ability to claim Irish citizenship and get an Irish passport. Plenty of people born and raised in NI have an Irish passport and don't have a UK passport. Plenty of Irish people live one in NI and work in RoI or vice versa. If you care about self-determination do you support a border poll? The stick that the Tories should be using to keep the DUP in line but are too weak and too scared to use. Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Dec 2017 9.44am) Which is part of the British Isles. That's why they can use British, not because they are part of Great Britain. Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 06 Dec 17 3.43pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, it's part of Ireland. It' just in the UK. So people from Northern Ireland are Irish not British. Hence their automatic ability to claim Irish citizenship and get an Irish passport. Plenty of people born and raised in NI have an Irish passport and don't have a UK passport. Plenty of Irish people live one in NI and work in RoI or vice versa.

If you care about self-determination do you support a border poll? The stick that the Tories should be using to keep the DUP in line but are too weak and too scared to use.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Dec 2017 9.44am)

Which is part of the British Isles.

That's why they can use British, not because they are part of Great Britain.

Optimistic as ever

Stirlingsays 06 Dec 17 3.53pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Well they had better snap out of that delusion and wake up to their true ethnicity sooner rather than later as Ireland won't be partitioned for ever. I reckon re-unification will happen before 2050. They are obviously Irish but with the right to call themselves British should they so wish. 63% of Northern Irish don't including some Protestants/Unionists. They prefer Ulstermen which is rational. Don't tell other people their 'ethnicity'. Who the hell do you think you are? If I put you in a room with them and let you tell them that I wouldn't have much hope for your safety. Cheek. You just proved precisely what I said about many lefty remainers. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 3.54pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Dec 17 3.53pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Well they had better snap out of that delusion and wake up to their true ethnicity sooner rather than later as Ireland won't be partitioned for ever. I reckon re-unification will happen before 2050.

They are obviously Irish but with the right to call themselves British should they so wish. 63% of Northern Irish don't including some Protestants/Unionists. They prefer Ulstermen which is rational.

Don't tell other people their 'ethnicity'. Who the hell do you think you are?

If I put you in a room with them and let you tell them that I wouldn't have much hope for your safety.

Cheek.

You just proved precisely what I said about many lefty remainers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 3.54pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 3.55pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Don't tell other people their 'ethnicity'. Who the hell do you think you are? If I put you in a room with them and let you tell them that I wouldn't have much hope for your safety. Cheek. You just proved precisely what I said about many lefty remainers. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 3.54pm) Maybe he is unpatriotic for pointing out his patriotic worries about the break up of the Union.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 3.55pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Don't tell other people their 'ethnicity'. Who the hell do you think you are?

If I put you in a room with them and let you tell them that I wouldn't have much hope for your safety.

Cheek.

You just proved precisely what I said about many lefty remainers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 3.54pm)

Maybe he is unpatriotic for pointing out his patriotic worries about the break up of the Union.

Stirlingsays 06 Dec 17 3.56pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, it's part of Ireland. It' just in the UK. So people from Northern Ireland are Irish not British. Hence their automatic ability to claim Irish citizenship and get an Irish passport. Plenty of people born and raised in NI have an Irish passport and don't have a UK passport. Plenty of Irish people live one in NI and work in RoI or vice versa. If you care about self-determination do you support a border poll? The stick that the Tories should be using to keep the DUP in line but are too weak and too scared to use. Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Dec 2017 9.44am) Yeah, I do, like I say, I support self determination because I'm not a hypocrite but a democrat......apart of the same reason I'm anti staying in the EU. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Dec 17 3.56pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, it's part of Ireland. It' just in the UK. So people from Northern Ireland are Irish not British. Hence their automatic ability to claim Irish citizenship and get an Irish passport. Plenty of people born and raised in NI have an Irish passport and don't have a UK passport. Plenty of Irish people live one in NI and work in RoI or vice versa.

If you care about self-determination do you support a border poll? The stick that the Tories should be using to keep the DUP in line but are too weak and too scared to use.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Dec 2017 9.44am)

Yeah, I do, like I say, I support self determination because I'm not a hypocrite but a democrat......apart of the same reason I'm anti staying in the EU.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Croydon 06 Dec 17 3.57pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Don't tell other people their 'ethnicity'. Who the hell do you think you are? If I put you in a room with them and let you tell them that I wouldn't have much hope for your safety. Cheek. You just proved precisely what I said about many lefty remainers. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 3.54pm) With 'lefty remainers' as you call them there would be no brexit and therefore no problem of Ireland at all. Just cancel brexit and the problem disappears.

steeleye20

Croydon 06 Dec 17 3.57pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Don't tell other people their 'ethnicity'. Who the hell do you think you are?

If I put you in a room with them and let you tell them that I wouldn't have much hope for your safety.

Cheek.

You just proved precisely what I said about many lefty remainers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 3.54pm)

With 'lefty remainers' as you call them there would be no brexit and therefore no problem of Ireland at all.

Just cancel brexit and the problem disappears.

Stirlingsays 06 Dec 17 3.59pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Maybe he is unpatriotic for pointing out his patriotic worries about the break up of the Union. Yeah you and Kermit are like British patriots......patriots this country needs like a shag with Diane Abbott. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Dec 17 3.59pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Maybe he is unpatriotic for pointing out his patriotic worries about the break up of the Union.

Yeah you and Kermit are like British patriots......patriots this country needs like a shag with Diane Abbott.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 06 Dec 17 4.01pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 With 'lefty remainers' as you call them there would be no brexit and therefore no problem of Ireland at all. Just cancel brexit and the problem disappears. Yeah, just the immigration and the control by foreigners......hey....who'd care....well you certainly don't. We are a European country by location and mostly genetics....the EU political project is a step too far. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 4.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Dec 17 4.01pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

With 'lefty remainers' as you call them there would be no brexit and therefore no problem of Ireland at all.

Just cancel brexit and the problem disappears.

Yeah, just the immigration and the control by foreigners......hey....who'd care....well you certainly don't.

We are a European country by location and mostly genetics....the EU political project is a step too far.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Dec 2017 4.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.41pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yeah, I do, like I say, I support self determination because I'm not a hypocrite but a democrat......apart of the same reason I'm anti staying in the EU. Do you support a border poll in Northern Ireland?

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.41pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, I do, like I say, I support self determination because I'm not a hypocrite but a democrat......apart of the same reason I'm anti staying in the EU.

Do you support a border poll in Northern Ireland?

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.45pm
So how did this misunderstanding arise? Davis had previously referred to work undertaken in “excruciating detail” to consider the economic consequences of quitting the EU under various scenarios and for various sectors of the economy. (But he claims never to have called them “impact assessments”.) Setting aside the technical definition, the question still arises of how meticulous, forensic work undertaken over a long period of time behind closed doors in Whitehall morphed into stuff you could find on Google; what one committee member described as a “cuttings file”. One explanation is that the redactions removed all the valuable material. This is possible but it requires believing that the department had too much stuff to share and required time only to sift and remove it. Yet the permanent secretary, Philip Rycroft, giving testimony after Davis, essentially admitted that the opposite was true. He had been surprised by his ministerial bosses’ offer to parliament and had promptly required to oversee a process of rapid collection and collation of data. In other words, DexEU hasn’t spent the past three weeks taking things out. It has been scrabbling around for stuff to put in. The more convincing explanation is that Davis was bluffing. He presumed that there was a lot of detail around somewhere, recognised at some level that it was the sort of thing that certainly ought to exist and didn’t expect ever to be forced to admit that it didn’t. And when parliament called his bluff, he doubled down, played along with the idea of impact assessments and let his civil servants try to do a year’s worth of government homework in less than a month. This government really can no longer be trusted to manage Brexit. Time for change.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.45pm

So how did this misunderstanding arise? Davis had previously referred to work undertaken in “excruciating detail” to consider the economic consequences of quitting the EU under various scenarios and for various sectors of the economy. (But he claims never to have called them “impact assessments”.) Setting aside the technical definition, the question still arises of how meticulous, forensic work undertaken over a long period of time behind closed doors in Whitehall morphed into stuff you could find on Google; what one committee member described as a “cuttings file”.

One explanation is that the redactions removed all the valuable material. This is possible but it requires believing that the department had too much stuff to share and required time only to sift and remove it. Yet the permanent secretary, Philip Rycroft, giving testimony after Davis, essentially admitted that the opposite was true. He had been surprised by his ministerial bosses’ offer to parliament and had promptly required to oversee a process of rapid collection and collation of data. In other words, DexEU hasn’t spent the past three weeks taking things out. It has been scrabbling around for stuff to put in.

The more convincing explanation is that Davis was bluffing. He presumed that there was a lot of detail around somewhere, recognised at some level that it was the sort of thing that certainly ought to exist and didn’t expect ever to be forced to admit that it didn’t. And when parliament called his bluff, he doubled down, played along with the idea of impact assessments and let his civil servants try to do a year’s worth of government homework in less than a month.

This government really can no longer be trusted to manage Brexit. Time for change.

chris123 hove actually 06 Dec 17 4.48pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, it's part of Ireland. It' just in the UK. So people from Northern Ireland are Irish not British. Hence their automatic ability to claim Irish citizenship and get an Irish passport. Plenty of people born and raised in NI have an Irish passport and don't have a UK passport. Plenty of Irish people live one in NI and work in RoI or vice versa. If you care about self-determination do you support a border poll? The stick that the Tories should be using to keep the DUP in line but are too weak and too scared to use. Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Dec 2017 9.44am) The United Kingdom is Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Northern Ireland are just as much part of the UK as the rest of the four countries.

chris123

hove actually 06 Dec 17 4.48pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

If you care about self-determination do you support a border poll? The stick that the Tories should be using to keep the DUP in line but are too weak and too scared to use.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Dec 2017 9.44am)

The United Kingdom is Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Northern Ireland are just as much part of the UK as the rest of the four countries.

Stuk Top half 06 Dec 17 4.53pm
Originally posted by chris123 The United Kingdom is Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Northern Ireland are just as much part of the UK as the rest of the four countries. That's what he's said. What he's got wrong is saying they're not British, when they can be. Edited by Stuk (06 Dec 2017 4.53pm) Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 06 Dec 17 4.53pm

Originally posted by chris123

The United Kingdom is Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Northern Ireland are just as much part of the UK as the rest of the four countries.

That's what he's said. What he's got wrong is saying they're not British, when they can be.

Edited by Stuk (06 Dec 2017 4.53pm)

Optimistic as ever

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.57pm
Originally posted by Stuk Which is part of the British Isles. That's why they can use British, not because they are part of Great Britain. Fair point. The British Isles though are no sovereign state or a consistent group of islands conferring a single nationality on all inhabitants. I can't see many Irish people counting themselves as British as a result of Ireland being geographically within the British Isles. My feeling is that NI is much more Irish than anything else, and really the last remaining vestige of the Empire hence the reluctance of many to countenance even allowing its inhabitants a chance of self-determination.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.57pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Which is part of the British Isles.

That's why they can use British, not because they are part of Great Britain.

Fair point. The British Isles though are no sovereign state or a consistent group of islands conferring a single nationality on all inhabitants. I can't see many Irish people counting themselves as British as a result of Ireland being geographically within the British Isles.

My feeling is that NI is much more Irish than anything else, and really the last remaining vestige of the Empire hence the reluctance of many to countenance even allowing its inhabitants a chance of self-determination.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.58pm
Originally posted by chris123 The United Kingdom is Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Northern Ireland are just as much part of the UK as the rest of the four countries. I just think they are more Irish than they are British despite being in the UK.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 06 Dec 17 4.58pm

Originally posted by chris123

The United Kingdom is Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Northern Ireland are just as much part of the UK as the rest of the four countries.

I just think they are more Irish than they are British despite being in the UK.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Dec 17 5.06pm
Hammond has admitted that the government has not discussed what they want the end state following the stage 2 Brexit negotiations to look like. Incredible incompetence. What on earth have they been doing for 18 months? They're effectively making it up as they go along, with no strategy or plan for what they are aiming for other than "Brexit means Brexit". Theresa May said it was all going really well at PMQs today. She's even more deluded than I thought.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 06 Dec 17 5.06pm

Hammond has admitted that the government has not discussed what they want the end state following the stage 2 Brexit negotiations to look like.

Incredible incompetence. What on earth have they been doing for 18 months? They're effectively making it up as they go along, with no strategy or plan for what they are aiming for other than "Brexit means Brexit". Theresa May said it was all going really well at PMQs today. She's even more deluded than I thought.

Stirlingsays 06 Dec 17 5.06pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Do you support a border poll in Northern Ireland? What part of 'yeah I do' don't you understand? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Dec 17 5.06pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Do you support a border poll in Northern Ireland?

What part of 'yeah I do' don't you understand?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

chris123 hove actually 06 Dec 17 5.09pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I just think they are more Irish than they are British despite being in the UK. Well you know what the National Anthem of Northern Ireland is don't you?

chris123

hove actually 06 Dec 17 5.09pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I just think they are more Irish than they are British despite being in the UK.

Well you know what the National Anthem of Northern Ireland is don't you?

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 5.09pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays What part of 'yeah I do' don't you understand? What s the way forward then Stirling. Do you have faith in the projects whilst Davis May Green and Hammond are anywhere near it?

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Dec 17 5.09pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

What part of 'yeah I do' don't you understand?

What s the way forward then Stirling. Do you have faith in the projects whilst Davis May Green and Hammond are anywhere near it?

Stirlingsays 06 Dec 17 5.10pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I just think they are more Irish than they are British despite being in the UK. I just think you are more Iraqi than English. That's how relevant what people think is. The British in NI are as British as I am. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Dec 17 5.10pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I just think they are more Irish than they are British despite being in the UK.

I just think you are more Iraqi than English.

That's how relevant what people think is. The British in NI are as British as I am.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stuk Top half 06 Dec 17 5.12pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Fair point. The British Isles though are no sovereign state or a consistent group of islands conferring a single nationality on all inhabitants. I can't see many Irish people counting themselves as British as a result of Ireland being geographically within the British Isles. My feeling is that NI is much more Irish than anything else, and really the last remaining vestige of the Empire hence the reluctance of many to countenance even allowing its inhabitants a chance of self-determination. They don't need to be a sovereign state, there are simply two sovereign states within them. Jersey, Guernsey and Manx residents can also call themselves British on the same basis. You can call yourself Caribbean and that's made up of a hell of a lot more than two countries. What you can't see or are feeling is neither here nor there, it's their choice. And it's nothing to do with the Empire, it was a self-determined choice made in 1920. Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 06 Dec 17 5.12pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They don't need to be a sovereign state, there are simply two sovereign states within them. Jersey, Guernsey and Manx residents can also call themselves British on the same basis.

You can call yourself Caribbean and that's made up of a hell of a lot more than two countries.

What you can't see or are feeling is neither here nor there, it's their choice. And it's nothing to do with the Empire, it was a self-determined choice made in 1920.

Optimistic as ever

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