Not many Brexiteers on here rejoicing. We are onto stage 2 which means less chance of a hard Brexit but more chance of Brexit happening. I'd have thought they'd be shouting from the rooftops we are a step closer.

Hold on, I'm a bit confused here. So essentially we may still end up in the single market and customs union anyway. What about freedom of movement?

People did warn that we'd basically just end up with a worse version of what we already had. The same in all but name, but no real say. Funnily enough it looks like the DUP helped us get there lol.

Edited by wordup (08 Dec 2017 1.59pm)

More likely didn't even cross their minds.

May said the agreement on the estimated €60bn (£52bn) financial settlement was “fair to the British taxpayer” but would ensure the UK could spend more money on its own priorities such a “housing, schools and the NHS”

To think that a British PM would say something so utterly ridiculous.

If I give the EU 50 billions then I have more to spend on the NHS etc. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So why not make an improved offer as then we will have even more money for our public services????

How about 70 billions then we could get more disabled benefit spongers into a proper job so the chancellor can further increase our unproductivity.

We need to see the detail but my thoughts so far (I am pro Brexit)

Money - Yes we are paying 30-40 billion but as we pay an annual EU bill of around 10 billion (lets not ague the actual amount) in the long run we will be better off.

Irish Border - Looks OK. If you want to come to this country from the EU just fly direct. I don't see thousands of people flying to Dublin and then sneaking over the border.

EU citizen's rights - On paper this is fine. However what are these rights that will enshrined in UK law? If they give EU citizens more rights that UK citizens living in the UK then that is not good.

Freedom of Movement - I expect EU and UK citizens to have relative freedom of movement in the EU and UK. In other words you can go on holiday or take a job with the minimum of fuss. I haven't seen anything from the government on this. You control immigration buy passing laws restricting access to benefits, social housing, healthcare and education. I would expect the EU to do the same. In other words I would not stop a person from coming to the UK from the EU for a job but that job would have to finance their living. So if Starbucks wants them Starbucks will have to pay them a decent wage. This should reduce immigration to a more manageable level.

Single market / customs union. I don't understand what this means. I get for now we are staying in but how will this impact our ability to import goods from outside the EU. The EU is a gigantic trade barrier for importing goods from elsewhere. This is to protect EU farmers etc. So will we be allowed to import olives from Africa or will the Spanish, Greek etc. block it. If we have to ask the EU for permission we have not left.

ECJ. I am concerned about this. During the transition period we have to abide by EU laws whilst having no say.

Overall a good start but I am suspicious as politicians tend to bury their dirty little secrets in the documents. I hope I am wrong.

One more point

Not much from anyone here on this today. Maybe it's dawning on people that it's likely to end up being a crap version of what we already have. Something that isn't what anyone, remain or leave, wants or will benefit from.

One thing I have noticed is that when people think they've got their way, as with Brexit, they often just lurch even further in that direction. Group polarisation. Suddenly some are sure that we've all signed up to a 'hard brexit' when clearly that isn't a majority view and never was. So I agree in the sense that whenever acts as a reality check for people getting carried away is a good thing and if that means everyone being a bit pissed off with whatever we end up with, then at least we all have something in common once again

Exactly.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

The above was copied from the Guardian earlier today.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

I don't there was a 'deal' done in Brussels today.

A fifteen page document short of actual details and all up for future discussion, in particular the Irish border was not resolved, the NI PM says there is more work to do.

I have seen so many last minute dashes to Brussels they have ceased to have any effect, remember Cameron and his 'special status within the EU'?

Lasted at least 24 hours, the financial 'deal' he got was less than the cost of Benteke.

A break until February 2018 that is good news IMO.