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Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 19 Dec 16 8.42am
Originally posted by 7mins Each image represents one coach, so if one image isn't working, the driver can't see the doors on the aforementioned coach. Fair play for admitting you don't have the required knowledge to have a informed opinion. Some people don't have any knowledge, but offer theories as fact. So kudos for admitting there is gaps in your knowledge, and it would be foolhardy to offer a opinion on the complexities of the strike. Why because I don't know the technicalities of some of the pictures you post? I know that parts of the rail network has operated for over 30 yrs without guards. I also know that when these train drivers have issues with cameras and visibility, there are set procedures to follow to allow the safe despatch of a train. What I don't know and no one has been able to explain is why Southern routes should be so different. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 19 Dec 16 8.42am

Originally posted by 7mins

Each image represents one coach, so if one image isn't working, the driver can't see the doors on the aforementioned coach.

Fair play for admitting you don't have the required knowledge to have a informed opinion.

Some people don't have any knowledge, but offer theories as fact. So kudos for admitting there is gaps in your knowledge, and it would be foolhardy to offer a opinion on the complexities of the strike.

Why because I don't know the technicalities of some of the pictures you post?

I know that parts of the rail network has operated for over 30 yrs without guards.

I also know that when these train drivers have issues with cameras and visibility, there are set procedures to follow to allow the safe despatch of a train.

What I don't know and no one has been able to explain is why Southern routes should be so different.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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7mins In the bush 19 Dec 16 8.52am
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch Why because I don't know the technicalities of some of the pictures you post? I know that parts of the rail network has operated for over 30 yrs without guards. I also know that when these train drivers have issues with cameras and visibility, there are set procedures to follow to allow the safe despatch of a train. What I don't know and no one has been able to explain is why Southern routes should be so different. What are the set procedures when DOO equipment fails? DOO on Thameslink was brought in at manned stations when passenger numbers were 30% of what they are now and were meant for only 4 and 8 car trains. Do you dispute any of the above?
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7mins

In the bush 19 Dec 16 8.52am

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Why because I don't know the technicalities of some of the pictures you post?

I know that parts of the rail network has operated for over 30 yrs without guards.

I also know that when these train drivers have issues with cameras and visibility, there are set procedures to follow to allow the safe despatch of a train.

What I don't know and no one has been able to explain is why Southern routes should be so different.

What are the set procedures when DOO equipment fails?
DOO on Thameslink was brought in at manned stations when passenger numbers were 30% of what they are now and were meant for only 4 and 8 car trains.

Do you dispute any of the above?

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 19 Dec 16 9.06am
Originally posted by 7mins What are the set procedures when DOO equipment fails? DOO on Thameslink was brought in at manned stations when passenger numbers were 30% of what they are now and were meant for only 4 and 8 car trains. Do you dispute any of the above? You keep shifting the argument. I don't know (and why would I) what the procedures are but they have them. Are you disputing that? Also worth noting these will be DCO trains not DOO Passenger numbers, I will take you word for it but does it matter whether 100 or 300 are getting on a train? 12 carriage trains? Probably one area where I would want reassurances One thing that you seem to miss is that when the guards role changes, they won't be mute. They will still be able to communicate with the driver if they see something untoward. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 19 Dec 16 9.06am

Originally posted by 7mins

Do you dispute any of the above?

You keep shifting the argument. I don't know (and why would I) what the procedures are but they have them. Are you disputing that? Also worth noting these will be DCO trains not DOO

Passenger numbers, I will take you word for it but does it matter whether 100 or 300 are getting on a train?

12 carriage trains? Probably one area where I would want reassurances

One thing that you seem to miss is that when the guards role changes, they won't be mute. They will still be able to communicate with the driver if they see something untoward.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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IMpalace London 19 Dec 16 9.33am
Are we just ignoring that the President of the RMT has said the number one rule of the union should be "strike to bring down the Tory government." Responding to a story suggesting the RMT and other unions were coordinating strike action to hurt the government his response : "Shock horror. Guess what? We are!" Post all the pictures of CCTV and pretend like this has anything to do with safety as much as you like, we (and I assume deep down you) know that's a load of crap. [Link] Edited by IMpalace (19 Dec 2016 9.37am)
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IMpalace

London 19 Dec 16 9.33am

Are we just ignoring that the President of the RMT has said the number one rule of the union should be "strike to bring down the Tory government."

Responding to a story suggesting the RMT and other unions were coordinating strike action to hurt the government his response : "Shock horror. Guess what? We are!"

Post all the pictures of CCTV and pretend like this has anything to do with safety as much as you like, we (and I assume deep down you) know that's a load of crap.

[Link]

Edited by IMpalace (19 Dec 2016 9.37am)

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IMpalace London 19 Dec 16 9.34am
Double post Edited by IMpalace (19 Dec 2016 9.34am)
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IMpalace

London 19 Dec 16 9.34am

Double post

Edited by IMpalace (19 Dec 2016 9.34am)

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7mins In the bush 19 Dec 16 10.02am
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch You keep shifting the argument. I don't know (and why would I) what the procedures are but they have them. Are you disputing that? Also worth noting these will be DCO trains not DOO Passenger numbers, I will take you word for it but does it matter whether 100 or 300 are getting on a train? 12 carriage trains? Probably one area where I would want reassurances One thing that you seem to miss is that when the guards role changes, they won't be mute. They will still be able to communicate with the driver if they see something untoward. Guards will not be on the trains. Southern has admitted it will not commit to having a second person on board. You mention numbers of 100-300... That would be awesome, unfortunately, we're talking about 1200-1300 passengers and one member of staff. Also the procedure for failed DOO equipment is to cancel the train. Problem is, how would a driver know if a camera has frozen (common fault). I don't mind people being against the strikes, but of course its about safety....drivers have job security, they have turned down a bonus and pay rise.... So if it isn't about jobs and money what is it about?
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7mins

In the bush 19 Dec 16 10.02am

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

You keep shifting the argument. I don't know (and why would I) what the procedures are but they have them. Are you disputing that? Also worth noting these will be DCO trains not DOO

Passenger numbers, I will take you word for it but does it matter whether 100 or 300 are getting on a train?

12 carriage trains? Probably one area where I would want reassurances

One thing that you seem to miss is that when the guards role changes, they won't be mute. They will still be able to communicate with the driver if they see something untoward.

Guards will not be on the trains. Southern has admitted it will not commit to having a second person on board.
You mention numbers of 100-300... That would be awesome, unfortunately, we're talking about 1200-1300 passengers and one member of staff. Also the procedure for failed DOO equipment is to cancel the train.
Problem is, how would a driver know if a camera has frozen (common fault).
I don't mind people being against the strikes, but of course its about safety....drivers have job security, they have turned down a bonus and pay rise.... So if it isn't about jobs and money what is it about?

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7mins In the bush 19 Dec 16 10.06am
Originally posted by IMpalace Are we just ignoring that the President of the RMT has said the number one rule of the union should be "strike to bring down the Tory government." Responding to a story suggesting the RMT and other unions were coordinating strike action to hurt the government his response : "Shock horror. Guess what? We are!" Post all the pictures of CCTV and pretend like this has anything to do with safety as much as you like, we (and I assume deep down you) know that's a load of crap. [Link] Edited by IMpalace (19 Dec 2016 9.37am) Do you believe 94% of train drivers voted because they wanted to bring down the Tories? I've seen one quote from a union guy that doesn't represent drivers, if you show me quotes from 94% of its members that they voted to bring down the Tories then I will accept this is political, but until then my friend, one quote from a broken arrow is not enough to convince me
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7mins

In the bush 19 Dec 16 10.06am

Originally posted by IMpalace

Are we just ignoring that the President of the RMT has said the number one rule of the union should be "strike to bring down the Tory government."

Responding to a story suggesting the RMT and other unions were coordinating strike action to hurt the government his response : "Shock horror. Guess what? We are!"

Post all the pictures of CCTV and pretend like this has anything to do with safety as much as you like, we (and I assume deep down you) know that's a load of crap.

[Link]

Edited by IMpalace (19 Dec 2016 9.37am)

Do you believe 94% of train drivers voted because they wanted to bring down the Tories?
I've seen one quote from a union guy that doesn't represent drivers, if you show me quotes from 94% of its members that they voted to bring down the Tories then I will accept this is political, but until then my friend, one quote from a broken arrow is not enough to convince me

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Dec 16 10.13am
So the president of the RMT doesn't speak for its members, then? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 19 Dec 16 10.13am

So the president of the RMT doesn't speak for its members, then?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 19 Dec 16 10.54am
Originally posted by Cucking Funt So the president of the RMT doesn't speak for its members, then? It was a rabble rousing speech in front of union members. I hear the rhetoric at many meetings. But that's all it is, rhetoric.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 19 Dec 16 10.54am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

So the president of the RMT doesn't speak for its members, then?

It was a rabble rousing speech in front of union members. I hear the rhetoric at many meetings. But that's all it is, rhetoric.

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 19 Dec 16 11.01am
Originally posted by nickgusset It was a rabble rousing speech in front of union members. I hear the rhetoric at many meetings. But that's all it is, rhetoric. Until people believe you. Then it's not rhetoric any more. So you're saying we shouldn't believe what the Union leaders say because they don't mean it. So it's not about safety after all then? Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 19 Dec 16 11.01am

Originally posted by nickgusset

It was a rabble rousing speech in front of union members. I hear the rhetoric at many meetings. But that's all it is, rhetoric.

Until people believe you. Then it's not rhetoric any more. So you're saying we shouldn't believe what the Union leaders say because they don't mean it. So it's not about safety after all then?

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 19 Dec 16 11.07am
Originally posted by nickgusset It was a rabble rousing speech in front of union members. I hear the rhetoric at many meetings. But that's all it is, rhetoric. So he didn't mean it, then? Did he put in a quick call to No. 10 afterwards and say 'It's ok, guys. Relax. Just a bit of rhetoric'? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 19 Dec 16 11.07am

Originally posted by nickgusset

It was a rabble rousing speech in front of union members. I hear the rhetoric at many meetings. But that's all it is, rhetoric.

So he didn't mean it, then? Did he put in a quick call to No. 10 afterwards and say 'It's ok, guys. Relax. Just a bit of rhetoric'?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 19 Dec 16 11.35am
Originally posted by mezzer Until people believe you. Then it's not rhetoric any more. So you're saying we shouldn't believe what the Union leaders say because they don't mean it. So it's not about safety after all then? No I'm not saying that at all. You're just looking for reasons to union bash.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 19 Dec 16 11.35am

Originally posted by mezzer

Until people believe you. Then it's not rhetoric any more. So you're saying we shouldn't believe what the Union leaders say because they don't mean it. So it's not about safety after all then?

No I'm not saying that at all. You're just looking for reasons to union bash.

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