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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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chris123 Flag hove actually 18 Jan 18 8.21am

Originally posted by Stuk

We had a free travel arrangement between the UK and Ireland long before the EU had free movement.

Exactly - I worked in Maydown years ago right on the border and completely free.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Jan 18 3.11pm

The only real issue here is that the UK or Eire may lose out on unpaid customs duties and VAT. This is a tax issue dressed up as a political issue. I suspect the Irish are concerned that the tax regime in the north will be lower than the south. Well they can deal with this on their side of the border.

 


One more point

matt_himself Flag Matataland 27 Jan 18 7.18pm

The BBC Remainers report that economic growth exceeded expectations, through gritted teeth:

[Link]

How many of the Remainers predictions have come true since a June 23 2016?

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 27 Jan 18 7.51pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

The BBC Remainers report that economic growth exceeded expectations, through gritted teeth:

[Link]

How many of the Remainers predictions have come true since a June 23 2016?

Who does the mighty 0.6% compare to the rest of the World?

What growth did the Brexiteers promise at this point or did they just say they would get rid of foreigners? Oh and £350 million a week for the NHS.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

.TUX. Flag 27 Jan 18 8.32pm

Originally posted by pefwin

Who does the mighty 0.6% compare to the rest of the World?

What growth did the Brexiteers promise at this point or did they just say they would get rid of foreigners? Oh and £350 million a week for the NHS.

In a world of free money continually being issued (DEBT printed from thin-air that will HAVE to be repaid!) then why does anything really matter? We are way past that point.

Question: Why do the Remainers never mention the billions upon billions (of DEBT that will HAVE to be repaid!) constantly issued by Draghi to prop-up what would otherwise be a FAILING EU Bloc?
Answer: Because they are NEVER bloody told of the real facts.

Some here think that the ever increasing global DEBT is a good thing.
Don't be one of them.

 


Buy Litecoin.

pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 27 Jan 18 8.51pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

In a world of free money continually being issued (DEBT printed from thin-air that will HAVE to be repaid!) then why does anything really matter? We are way past that point.

Question: Why do the Remainers never mention the billions upon billions (of DEBT that will HAVE to be repaid!) constantly issued by Draghi to prop-up what would otherwise be a FAILING EU Bloc?
Answer: Because they are NEVER bloody told of the real facts.

Some here think that the ever increasing global DEBT is a good thing.
Don't be one of them.


I not sure what you mean but is that meant to be a reply to my post or just some random thinking?

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

matt_himself Flag Matataland 27 Jan 18 8.59pm

Originally posted by pefwin

Who does the mighty 0.6% compare to the rest of the World?

What growth did the Brexiteers promise at this point or did they just say they would get rid of foreigners? Oh and £350 million a week for the NHS.

No one said they would ‘get rid of foreigners’.

If you have proof someone did, please provide it.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

.TUX. Flag 27 Jan 18 8.59pm

Originally posted by pefwin

I not sure what you mean but is that meant to be a reply to my post or just some random thinking?

Yeah, just some random thoughts i guess.

Edit.........Your thoughts on the DEBT would be welcomed.

Edited by .TUX. (27 Jan 2018 9.17pm)

 


Buy Litecoin.

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 29 Jan 18 2.01pm

Originally posted by Stuk

We had a free travel arrangement between the UK and Ireland long before the EU had free movement.

So when things used to be completely different from how they are now then you mean?

 

Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 2.14pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

So when things used to be completely different from how they are now then you mean?

Things were completely different to now, 26 countries worth.

My point was them using the Irish argument is a non-issue, as we had a perfectly acceptable and workable arrangement between us prior to any EU agreements.

 


Optimistic as ever

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 29 Jan 18 2.20pm

One argument that I've seen very little of is around the futility of a "soft" Brexit. This is perhaps due to the complete lack of a plan from the government in over 5 years since Dodgy Dave announced his commitment to a referendum on EU membership. This has allowed for chaos and wrangling over various shades of Brexit.

The only 2 options that should have ever been on the table, and this should have been explicit, are full Brexit and remain in the EU as a key player. Soft Brexit and staying in the single market and customs union would necessarily be worse than staying in the EU as it would necessitate signing up to de facto membership without having any say in the direction of travel. We'd also lose our rebate and likely have to continue to make some sort of contribution towards EU projects and the budget and we've already lost a number of high profile agencies and jobs that go with them. It is also a waste of parliamentary and civil service time when we're still being plagued by Tory austerity and incompetence in running public services.

Cameron should never have been allowed to call a referendum without having set out clear options and without having made proper plans and providing proper information, like sector analyses. Furthermore arguments from people on the Brexit side over Norway style deals, Canada +++, not losing any of the benefits of the EU, signing huge trade deals on day 1 were ill-informed and disingenuous and clearly unhelpful post the vote. Remain running on a platform of fear was clearly a bad strategy and didn't offer a vision of the UK being a European leader and reshaping Europe from withing (a la Macron). Cameron was too narrow minded and scared of his back benchers to do that. He will surely go down as the worst ever PM.

The situation now is a mess and we'll almost certainly end up in a state that no one wanted and is worse than either option could have been with proper planning. Given the mess the government has made of this I think we should now only consider those two options. The problem has been a lack of planning and then a lack of competence. I would like to see some genuine leadership from May and for her to say lay out the two options and allow a second vote on them, and if Brexit wins then go for a "hard" Brexit where we will be a genuine 3rd country and not in some halfway house. Sadly this won't happen as she's weak and a coward. I have no idea who would win as polling is mixed, but at least we'd have a mandated direction and not be left with the worst option due to incompetence and craven acts of self preservation by politicians. The lack of such an explicit choice has made soft Brexit almost inevitable.

Labour could of course engineer such a decision in a way by changing their stance on Brexit. They probably won't though.

 

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 29 Jan 18 2.21pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Things were completely different to now, 26 countries worth.

My point was them using the Irish argument is a non-issue, as we had a perfectly acceptable and workable arrangement between us prior to any EU agreements.

Yes but you can't just put that agreement back into place now as the situation is not the same. It's totally different.

 

Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 2.26pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Yes but you can't just put that agreement back into place now as the situation is not the same. It's totally different.

Of course you can. It precedes the EU and we are both Island countries, outside of the Schengen area, that you need photo ID to get to anyway. So if you aren't Irish or British, you'll need a passport to come to either and to travel between the two.

 


Optimistic as ever

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 29 Jan 18 2.30pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Of course you can. It precedes the EU and we are both Island countries, outside of the Schengen area, that you need photo ID to get to anyway. So if you aren't Irish or British, you'll need a passport to come to either and to travel between the two.

Which would necessitate border controls, as would the lack of a customs union.

Such a border has been ruled out.

These arrangements also pre-dated the Good Friday Agreement.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (29 Jan 2018 2.31pm)

 

Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 2.38pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Which would necessitate border controls, as would the lack of a customs union.

Such a border has been ruled out.

No it wouldn't. It's a non-issue.

 


Optimistic as ever

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 29 Jan 18 2.52pm

Originally posted by Stuk

No it wouldn't. It's a non-issue.


So you don't think there will be any border controls? So goods and people can just move freely between the UK and the EU?

 

Stirlingsays Flag 29 Jan 18 2.53pm

The EU are desperate for the money.....they fudged the Irish border just so they could move beyond the second stage.

They will take it to the edge.....use the internal fifth columnists to scare the horses as much as they can to build pressure.....we will see what happens.

The wiggle room for Davis and co isn't large. If they appear weak to the Tory party then Mogg and Johnson are eagerly waiting to take over.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 2.57pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle


So you don't think there will be any border controls? So goods and people can just move freely between the UK and the EU?

Only if they're really good swimmers. Go back and read my second post today.

 


Optimistic as ever

pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 3.00pm

[Link]

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

Stirlingsays Flag 29 Jan 18 3.16pm

Ah, the good old Daily Remainer.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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