Nope.......we don't like the EU......We don't like no control of our borders nor being apart of their ever closer political and economic union.

Bye bye EU.

We shall defend Europe if required, we won't defend the EU.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Feb 2018 9.37am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

No it’s not.

If we were in a ‘Common Market’ with our European partners, then I would have voted to stay in that.

However, we are in a ‘Union’ that is attempting ecomonic, political and military union against the democratic will of the people.

We as a nation voted against being used from Brussels by a group of unelected commissioners.

If our European partners were invaded or attacked, we would defend them as that is entirely different from being locked into the US of E against our will.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

I thought Brexiteers thought all forecasts were baloney?

The premise in this article is not crazy, but reliant on a couple of big factors which are not in our favour, one being we have David Davis running the DExEU department and he's a moron and we have May running a weak government without a majority for this kind of Brexit. Furthermore the EU has other things to think about which it may consider more important than the economic damage to certain industries and that's the integrity of the whole bloc. This is a good article from a Dutch journalist:

[Link]

It's a bit like Sophie's choice for the EU.

I agree that if we are going to do Brexit we should be going for a proper Brexit otherwise what's the point, and it's clear a Soft Brexit is worse than no Brexit. The lack of clarity on this pre-referendum and lack of planning has made this into a massive mess and I'd prefer it if we started this whole process again and Dodgy Dave and useless Theresa were allowed no part of it.

By whom?

FYI when Obama came in in 2008 general government debt was 93.1% of GDP and was 106.4% of GDP a year later, given the GFC and policies put in place by the Bush administration there was limited amounts he could have done about this debt figure.

He pursued a (reasonably modest) fiscal stimulus package which helped massively to improve the US economy. Monetary policy is determined by the Fed. US Debt to GDP in 2016 was 126.9% which is not double. Looking at absolute values is totally misleading and useless.

n.b. these are gross debt figures from OECD.

US GDP growth is pretty good and Obama's policies are to thank for that.

There is no such thing as a United states of Europe as you very well know, you are just desperately living in a brexit fantasy that has no basis in real life.

What is my Brexit fantasy?

Saying that I would have backed staying in the Commkn Market as it was?

Yes, how isolationist that point of view is.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

The United States of Europe as I said is your fantasy, there is no such thing.

It is very obvious why Mrs Thatcher was so against referendums.

They are poison and this has ended up with half the country having hardly any representation in parliament.

if the country has to decide whether to leave finally, it should be at a general election.

Then the people decide and the make-up of parliament accurately reflects that decision.

Otherwise a festering divide that will go on for years perhaps decades?

One of the things that disgusts me about the current Tory party is their view that Theresa May should continue to deliver Brexit and then she must go as she's useless and a terrible leader. Basically they are saying she's good enough for the British public and to carry through the most important thing to happen to the country since WWII, but she's not good enough for the Tory party. The time to make that decision was on 9th June 2017 not 29th March 2019.

I'm amazed these ardent Brexit nuts aren't trying to get rid of her now. They must know she's a block to a hard Brexit and incapable of delivering a good outcome for anyone. Anyone keen on hard Brexit should be desperate for May to go and for another election/referendum that would provide a true mandate for hard Brexit.

The fact is that the Tory party disgusts you full stop, so the passive aggressive points made above betray a greater, anti-Tory, agenda.

You are partisan and are attempting to use what you portray as a reasoned assessment to bring people to your view that Brexit should be stopped at all costs.

I would have more respect for you if you admitted that.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02