The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 matt_himself  Matataland 08 Mar 17 11.20am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The point is that countries in the EU will not go to war against each other as they live in peace and security. Two World Wars were started by Western Europe countries mobilising against each other. The Balkan countries are not members of the EU. The EU has been very successful in this respect as war between EU members is quite unthinkable.
The EU has only been in existence for 24 years. Edited by Penge Eagle (08 Mar 2017 8.41pm)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 17 11.22am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
I must have imagined the last 65 years of peace in Western Europe, our stronger economy since joining, and our cleaner sea and rivers then? Left wing delusion strikes again. Nothing to do with the nuclear deterrent then. #Revisionism
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Kermit8  Hevon 08 Mar 17 12.22pm |
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NATO cannot prevent conflict between its members as has been proven with Greece v Turkey and Iceland v UK. The EEC/Common Market/EU has, however, a 100% clean record and not one bullet in 65 years has been fired amongst its members. Churchill's main support for Europe coming together and to pursue common economic interests was to prevent future conflict and, so far, he has been totally correct and his vision on that score nothing less than perfect. NATO was formed to confront a perceived Soviet threat toward Western Europe and the States and not to harmonise peace.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 08 Mar 17 12.28pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Left wing delusion strikes again. Nothing to do with the nuclear deterrent then. #Revisionism I am not quite sure how the nuclear deterrent would have prevented two non-nuclear countries within a EEC/EU free Europe entering into conflict between the years 1955 and 2016 so perhaps you could explain?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 17 12.47pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
I am not quite sure how the nuclear deterrent would have prevented two non-nuclear countries within a EEC/EU free Europe entering into conflict between the years 1955 and 2016 so perhaps you could explain? Which countries might that have been?
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 08 Mar 17 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Which countries might that have been? Andorra and Lichtenstein?
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 08 Mar 17 12.53pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
NATO cannot prevent conflict between its members as has been proven with Greece v Turkey and Iceland v UK. The EEC/Common Market/EU has, however, a 100% clean record and not one bullet in 65 years has been fired amongst its members. Churchill's main support for Europe coming together and to pursue common economic interests was to prevent future conflict and, so far, he has been totally correct and his vision on that score nothing less than perfect. NATO was formed to confront a perceived Soviet threat toward Western Europe and the States and not to harmonise peace. You might just as well say the European Song Contest has been responsible for relative peace.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 17 12.55pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Andorra and Lichtenstein? A huge row about the goat herding exclusion zone perhaps?
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jeeagles  08 Mar 17 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
NATO cannot prevent conflict between its members as has been proven with Greece v Turkey and Iceland v UK. The EEC/Common Market/EU has, however, a 100% clean record and not one bullet in 65 years has been fired amongst its members. Churchill's main support for Europe coming together and to pursue common economic interests was to prevent future conflict and, so far, he has been totally correct and his vision on that score nothing less than perfect. NATO was formed to confront a perceived Soviet threat toward Western Europe and the States and not to harmonise peace. Agree with Kermit here. Europe is not as stable as people perceive it to be. This isn't just down to prosperity as we were richest before WW1. Conflict, proxy conflicts, and instability has been a constant around Europe since the end of WWII. Some could argue that it's still going on. We are currently having a proxy war with Russia, and there is a war going on in the Ukraine. On the periphery of Europe we have instability in the Balkans, Georgia, the Middle East, North Africa, Turkey, Greece, Northern Ireland, and Spain. There's serious concern in Finland about the Russians. I'm sure there's plenty more issues plus all there's loads of counties further afield where European nations are involved in armed conflict. Since the Coal and Steel community started its made it impossible for members to go to war as the shared interest prevent it. NATO on the other hand is failing as they don't have an economic interest to hold them together.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 08 Mar 17 1.05pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Which countries might that have been?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 17 1.07pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
It's a fair question.
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| matt_himself Matataland 08 Mar 17 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
NATO cannot prevent conflict between its members as has been proven with Greece v Turkey and Iceland v UK. The EEC/Common Market/EU has, however, a 100% clean record and not one bullet in 65 years has been fired amongst its members. Churchill's main support for Europe coming together and to pursue common economic interests was to prevent future conflict and, so far, he has been totally correct and his vision on that score nothing less than perfect. NATO was formed to confront a perceived Soviet threat toward Western Europe and the States and not to harmonise peace. Nato article 8: Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty. kind of says that no member of NATO shall attack another member. Furthermore, Article 5 is very clear on matters: Article 5 The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security . Is there something in the EU charter which overrides this, Michael?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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