Jeremy Corbyn

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Jeremy Corbyn

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sydtheeagle England 29 Sep 15 7.16pm
Quote leggedstruggle at 29 Sep 2015 7.11pm Best name of past prime minister must be Bonar Law, in office 1922-1923 - had 'Village People' tash, I wonder if gay rights were in his manifesto. Proves there must have been a shift to the left at some point. Only the Tories would pass a Bonar Law. Edited by sydtheeagle (29 Sep 2015 7.17pm) Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

sydtheeagle

England 29 Sep 15 7.16pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 29 Sep 2015 7.11pm

Best name of past prime minister must be Bonar Law, in office 1922-1923 - had 'Village People' tash, I wonder if gay rights were in his manifesto.

Proves there must have been a shift to the left at some point. Only the Tories would pass a Bonar Law.

Edited by sydtheeagle (29 Sep 2015 7.17pm)

Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

We are goin up! Coulsdon 29 Sep 15 7.56pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 29 Sep 2015 5.46pm But that's your interpretation of his style and manner. Do we have any evidence that the broader public concur? I don't think he looks or sounds appreciably less attractive than any other politician. But I would concede that I am inclined to be sympathetic. Anyway, it's not what you or I think. It's what the broader public think (sic). If you think, as I do, that they've had enough of the "status quo" homo politicus, perhaps they will respond to rather than reject his style. I just think a slick, professional look like Cameron's is always going to trump a scruffy look like Corbyn's. He is auditioning to be the Prime Minister. The public has to envisage him talking to the likes of Obama and Putin. Can you honestly see Corbyn performing well on the world stage? Maybe you can, I can't. Quote Integrity. Substance. Moral compass. A rejection of the superficial that has dominated the entire political spectrum in recent years. That's what I see among other things. I think this is one of the biggest frustrations of the right. The monopoly that the left thinks it has on morality. Socialism does not make the poor richer, it only makes the rich poorer. That's probably for another argument, but tapping into the politics of envy does not constitute having a moral compass in my eyes and certainly doesn't have any substance. Corbyn talks about the politics of hope, I think it's the politics of false hope and that is not a good alternative to pragmatism. Quote Maybe. But aren't you essentially doing exactly the same thing in reverse? It's simply that over the past two decades, you have been proved right. But that may not last. If you assume that the British electorate is deeply unhappy with the status quo then you could be right, but the Conservatives just got voted in on an increased mandate despite enforcing all these policies that you think are so evil. Quote All of that is true. But isn't it possible that Corbyn will be aided in his own counter-dragging of the electorate by a sense of rejection of the right? The economic crash has exposed the corporate world as being too influential, the wealthy as being too selfish, the political intelligentsia as being too dishonest, and broader society as being too self-serving. I may be wrong, but pretty much every time there's been a lurch towards one end of the political spectrum -- left or right, ultimately it's been followed by a corrective lurch back towards the center. I simply think it's possible -- just possible -- that this may be the time for that to happen. I don't agree with your evaluation of capitalism and doubt I ever will, but I will say that Osborne and Cameron have hardly been Thatcherite, they've been very centre and a bit right. Quote Yep, that is the key point. But I think if Corbyn can articulate his case and present a coherent taxation policy, the middle classes might vote for it. Of course, I may be living in a fool's paradise but my belief is that I may not be. See first point on presentation and appearance. I can't see Corbyn being the person to put that case forward coherently. Quote Only in so far as you expect history to repeat itself. But that isn't a valid argument -- only a strong one based on recent evidence -- because history shows that eventually, things do change. If they didn't we could predict the outcome of the next election and not need to vote. I would agree that Corbyn faces overwhelming challenges and his election would require a sea change in our voting patterns. His task is difficult for the reasons you give. But change will happen at some point and I think/hope he is the man to deliver it. I hope. You hope not. Socialism has been a disaster wherever it has been practised. If change comes it will soon change back. In my opinion The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

We are goin up!

Coulsdon 29 Sep 15 7.56pm

Quote sydtheeagle at 29 Sep 2015 5.46pm

But that's your interpretation of his style and manner. Do we have any evidence that the broader public concur? I don't think he looks or sounds appreciably less attractive than any other politician. But I would concede that I am inclined to be sympathetic. Anyway, it's not what you or I think. It's what the broader public think (sic). If you think, as I do, that they've had enough of the "status quo" homo politicus, perhaps they will respond to rather than reject his style.

I just think a slick, professional look like Cameron's is always going to trump a scruffy look like Corbyn's. He is auditioning to be the Prime Minister. The public has to envisage him talking to the likes of Obama and Putin. Can you honestly see Corbyn performing well on the world stage? Maybe you can, I can't.

Quote

Integrity. Substance. Moral compass. A rejection of the superficial that has dominated the entire political spectrum in recent years. That's what I see among other things.

I think this is one of the biggest frustrations of the right. The monopoly that the left thinks it has on morality. Socialism does not make the poor richer, it only makes the rich poorer. That's probably for another argument, but tapping into the politics of envy does not constitute having a moral compass in my eyes and certainly doesn't have any substance. Corbyn talks about the politics of hope, I think it's the politics of false hope and that is not a good alternative to pragmatism.

Quote

Maybe. But aren't you essentially doing exactly the same thing in reverse? It's simply that over the past two decades, you have been proved right. But that may not last.

If you assume that the British electorate is deeply unhappy with the status quo then you could be right, but the Conservatives just got voted in on an increased mandate despite enforcing all these policies that you think are so evil.

Quote
All of that is true. But isn't it possible that Corbyn will be aided in his own counter-dragging of the electorate by a sense of rejection of the right? The economic crash has exposed the corporate world as being too influential, the wealthy as being too selfish, the political intelligentsia as being too dishonest, and broader society as being too self-serving. I may be wrong, but pretty much every time there's been a lurch towards one end of the political spectrum -- left or right, ultimately it's been followed by a corrective lurch back towards the center. I simply think it's possible -- just possible -- that this may be the time for that to happen.

I don't agree with your evaluation of capitalism and doubt I ever will, but I will say that Osborne and Cameron have hardly been Thatcherite, they've been very centre and a bit right.

Quote

Yep, that is the key point. But I think if Corbyn can articulate his case and present a coherent taxation policy, the middle classes might vote for it. Of course, I may be living in a fool's paradise but my belief is that I may not be.

See first point on presentation and appearance. I can't see Corbyn being the person to put that case forward coherently.

Quote

Only in so far as you expect history to repeat itself. But that isn't a valid argument -- only a strong one based on recent evidence -- because history shows that eventually, things do change. If they didn't we could predict the outcome of the next election and not need to vote. I would agree that Corbyn faces overwhelming challenges and his election would require a sea change in our voting patterns. His task is difficult for the reasons you give. But change will happen at some point and I think/hope he is the man to deliver it. I hope. You hope not.

Socialism has been a disaster wherever it has been practised. If change comes it will soon change back. In my opinion

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

blind eagle Covington.Tennessee 29 Sep 15 8.07pm
Quote PalazioVecchio at 31 Jul 2015 11.17am i love corbyn. A michael Foot or Niel Kinnock for our times. Foot and Kinnock did not add any luster to the Labour Party and as Corbyn runs out of steam he will not add any luster either. Labour may have to reincarnate Bessie Braddock ,The Queen of Liverpool. She had more balls than most male members of the Labour Party.

blind eagle

Covington.Tennessee 29 Sep 15 8.07pm

Quote PalazioVecchio at 31 Jul 2015 11.17am

i love corbyn. A michael Foot or Niel Kinnock for our times.

Foot and Kinnock did not add any luster to the Labour Party and as Corbyn runs out of steam he will not add any luster either. Labour may have to reincarnate Bessie Braddock ,The Queen of Liverpool. She had more balls than most male members of the Labour Party.

Catfish Burgess Hill 29 Sep 15 8.16pm
Corbyn is being criticised by some for not setting out a detailed plan of how Labour will win the next election. It seems a trifle unrealistic after two weeks. I thought it was a speech that did a good job of pulling the audience together and setting out common values. In that respect it gave an impression of unity that will play well with the public. One thing that Corbyn is good at is angry idealism. It is a thing that the Labour Party were historically good at. I sometimes think that Labour and union conferences are more impressed by the emotion rather than the content. However, it is a strength that they lost post-Kinnock and it is one that the other parties find difficult to match. The Tories can't do angry without sounding like Nazis and the liberals just can't do angry. I will be interested to see what the polls say. Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

Catfish

Burgess Hill 29 Sep 15 8.16pm

Corbyn is being criticised by some for not setting out a detailed plan of how Labour will win the next election. It seems a trifle unrealistic after two weeks. I thought it was a speech that did a good job of pulling the audience together and setting out common values. In that respect it gave an impression of unity that will play well with the public.
One thing that Corbyn is good at is angry idealism. It is a thing that the Labour Party were historically good at. I sometimes think that Labour and union conferences are more impressed by the emotion rather than the content. However, it is a strength that they lost post-Kinnock and it is one that the other parties find difficult to match. The Tories can't do angry without sounding like Nazis and the liberals just can't do angry. I will be interested to see what the polls say.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial

SwalecliffeEagle Swalecliffe 29 Sep 15 8.53pm
Quote Catfish at 29 Sep 2015 8.16pm Corbyn is being criticised by some for not setting out a detailed plan of how Labour will win the next election. It seems a trifle unrealistic after two weeks. I thought it was a speech that did a good job of pulling the audience together and setting out common values. In that respect it gave an impression of unity that will play well with the public. One thing that Corbyn is good at is angry idealism. It is a thing that the Labour Party were historically good at. I sometimes think that Labour and union conferences are more impressed by the emotion rather than the content. However, it is a strength that they lost post-Kinnock and it is one that the other parties find difficult to match. The Tories can't do angry without sounding like Nazis and the liberals just can't do angry. I will be interested to see what the polls say. lol you hit the nail firmly on the head with that one.

SwalecliffeEagle

Swalecliffe 29 Sep 15 8.53pm

Quote Catfish at 29 Sep 2015 8.16pm

Corbyn is being criticised by some for not setting out a detailed plan of how Labour will win the next election. It seems a trifle unrealistic after two weeks. I thought it was a speech that did a good job of pulling the audience together and setting out common values. In that respect it gave an impression of unity that will play well with the public.
One thing that Corbyn is good at is angry idealism. It is a thing that the Labour Party were historically good at. I sometimes think that Labour and union conferences are more impressed by the emotion rather than the content. However, it is a strength that they lost post-Kinnock and it is one that the other parties find difficult to match. The Tories can't do angry without sounding like Nazis and the liberals just can't do angry. I will be interested to see what the polls say.

lol you hit the nail firmly on the head with that one.

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 29 Sep 15 9.11pm
The electorate will reject the beard. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 29 Sep 15 9.11pm

The electorate will reject the beard.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Pete53 Hassocks 29 Sep 15 9.39pm
Quote blind eagle at 29 Sep 2015 8.07pm Quote PalazioVecchio at 31 Jul 2015 11.17am i love corbyn. A michael Foot or Niel Kinnock for our times. Foot and Kinnock did not add any luster to the Labour Party and as Corbyn runs out of steam he will not add any luster either. Labour may have to reincarnate Bessie Braddock ,The Queen of Liverpool. She had more balls than most male members of the Labour Party. You are going back a bit there. She was famously the target of one of Churchills witticisms after she accused him of being drunk in the House, to which he replied along the lines of, I may be drunk but you are ugly, however, tomorrow I shall be sober but you will still be ugly.

Pete53

Hassocks 29 Sep 15 9.39pm

Quote blind eagle at 29 Sep 2015 8.07pm

Quote PalazioVecchio at 31 Jul 2015 11.17am

i love corbyn. A michael Foot or Niel Kinnock for our times.

You are going back a bit there. She was famously the target of one of Churchills witticisms after she accused him of being drunk in the House, to which he replied along the lines of, I may be drunk but you are ugly, however, tomorrow I shall be sober but you will still be ugly.

jcreedy 29 Sep 15 10.27pm
I still think he'll be Prime Minister It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. - John Bostock (Nov 2007)

jcreedy

29 Sep 15 10.27pm

I still think he'll be Prime Minister

It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

johnfirewall 29 Sep 15 10.32pm
What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era?

johnfirewall

29 Sep 15 10.32pm

What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era?

Seth On a pale blue dot 29 Sep 15 11.53pm
Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era? The people of Iraq will no doubt be forever grateful for Blair's "kindness". "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

Seth

On a pale blue dot 29 Sep 15 11.53pm

Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm

What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era?

The people of Iraq will no doubt be forever grateful for Blair's "kindness".

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

chris123 hove actually 30 Sep 15 7.09am
Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm I still think he'll be Prime Minister You can get 7/1 in most places.

chris123

hove actually 30 Sep 15 7.09am

Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm

I still think he'll be Prime Minister

You can get 7/1 in most places.

npn Crowborough 30 Sep 15 7.49am
Quote chris123 at 30 Sep 2015 7.09am Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm I still think he'll be Prime Minister You can get 7/1 in most places. That sounds ludicrously low to me - I'd think that would be a decent price for him leading Labour into an election, but you could add a nought on that for him actually winning one!

npn

Crowborough 30 Sep 15 7.49am

Quote chris123 at 30 Sep 2015 7.09am

Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm

I still think he'll be Prime Minister

You can get 7/1 in most places.

That sounds ludicrously low to me - I'd think that would be a decent price for him leading Labour into an election, but you could add a nought on that for him actually winning one!

Midlands Eagle 30 Sep 15 8.01am
Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm I still think he'll be Prime Minister I doubt it as very few people will vote for someone if they know that it will hurt them in the pocket. I can remember a time when Margaret Thatcher was deeply unpopular and everyone expected her to lose the next election until Labour came out with a policy of re-nationalising the utilities without compensation and every working man that had made a few quid on the various flotations realised that they would lose money so they voted the hated Maggie back in instead

Midlands Eagle

30 Sep 15 8.01am

Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm

I still think he'll be Prime Minister

I doubt it as very few people will vote for someone if they know that it will hurt them in the pocket.

I can remember a time when Margaret Thatcher was deeply unpopular and everyone expected her to lose the next election until Labour came out with a policy of re-nationalising the utilities without compensation and every working man that had made a few quid on the various flotations realised that they would lose money so they voted the hated Maggie back in instead

jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Sep 15 9.18am
Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era? I think its like the 'Big Society' and 'all in it togeather' the empty vapid nonsense that politicians come out with that sounds good but is in fact a load of old bollocks in which politicians elicit support on the basis of oratory, rather than truth and policy. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Sep 15 9.18am

Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm

What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era?

I think its like the 'Big Society' and 'all in it togeather' the empty vapid nonsense that politicians come out with that sounds good but is in fact a load of old bollocks in which politicians elicit support on the basis of oratory, rather than truth and policy.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Sep 15 9.22am
Quote chris123 at 30 Sep 2015 7.09am Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm I still think he'll be Prime Minister You can get 7/1 in most places. When he entered the Labour leadership election I think he was the ranked outsider. Finished with 59% of the vote. UKIP did remarkably well, despite most people writing them off as a protest vote, as did the Greens and SNP, with policy well outside of the 'accepted mainstream stance'. People probably aren't so worried about a tax cut that might make them five to ten pound a week better off, when their rent or mortgages are 800-1000 a month and rising. His idea of going after the self employed vote is a bit of a coup - an area which traditionally has been a fairly big conservative influence. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Sep 15 9.22am

Quote chris123 at 30 Sep 2015 7.09am

Quote jcreedy at 29 Sep 2015 10.27pm

I still think he'll be Prime Minister

You can get 7/1 in most places.

When he entered the Labour leadership election I think he was the ranked outsider. Finished with 59% of the vote.

UKIP did remarkably well, despite most people writing them off as a protest vote, as did the Greens and SNP, with policy well outside of the 'accepted mainstream stance'.

People probably aren't so worried about a tax cut that might make them five to ten pound a week better off, when their rent or mortgages are 800-1000 a month and rising.

His idea of going after the self employed vote is a bit of a coup - an area which traditionally has been a fairly big conservative influence.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Sep 15 9.24am
Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 9.11pm The electorate will reject the beard. The last Labour leader with a beard was Kier Hardy. Now that's old school Labour.... "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Sep 15 9.24am

Quote Cucking Funt at 29 Sep 2015 9.11pm

The electorate will reject the beard.

The last Labour leader with a beard was Kier Hardy. Now that's old school Labour....

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

legaleagle 30 Sep 15 9.37am
Quote Seth at 29 Sep 2015 11.53pm Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era? The people of Iraq will no doubt be forever grateful for Blair's "kindness". More like the politics of kind(of mad)ness... Still, an actual politics of kindness,for all its rhetoric, might at least be an improvement on the current prevalence of the politics of unkindness Edited by legaleagle (30 Sep 2015 9.37am)

legaleagle

30 Sep 15 9.37am

Quote Seth at 29 Sep 2015 11.53pm

Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm

What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era?

The people of Iraq will no doubt be forever grateful for Blair's "kindness".

More like the politics of kind(of mad)ness...

Still, an actual politics of kindness,for all its rhetoric, might at least be an improvement on the current prevalence of the politics of unkindness

Edited by legaleagle (30 Sep 2015 9.37am)

jamiemartin721 Reading 30 Sep 15 10.13am
Quote legaleagle at 30 Sep 2015 9.37am Quote Seth at 29 Sep 2015 11.53pm Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era? The people of Iraq will no doubt be forever grateful for Blair's "kindness". More like the politics of kind(of mad)ness... Still, an actual politics of kindness,for all its rhetoric, might at least be an improvement on the current prevalence of the politics of unkindness Edited by legaleagle (30 Sep 2015 9.37am) A politic of what we like rather than what we don't like would be a nice improvement. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 30 Sep 15 10.13am

Quote legaleagle at 30 Sep 2015 9.37am

Quote Seth at 29 Sep 2015 11.53pm

Quote johnfirewall at 29 Sep 2015 10.32pm

What on earth is this politics of kindness? Is it not the same as what Blair created? Coincidence that most his voters grew up in that era?

The people of Iraq will no doubt be forever grateful for Blair's "kindness".

More like the politics of kind(of mad)ness...

Still, an actual politics of kindness,for all its rhetoric, might at least be an improvement on the current prevalence of the politics of unkindness

Edited by legaleagle (30 Sep 2015 9.37am)

A politic of what we like rather than what we don't like would be a nice improvement.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 30 Sep 15 10.51am
[Link] Interesting poll.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 30 Sep 15 10.51am

[Link]

Interesting poll.

Lyons550 Shirley 30 Sep 15 10.58am
I like Corbyn...I think he's mad as a box of frogs if he thinks his ideological views are implementable in their current form...but he's standing by his principles and as such that's extremely admirable. He's already seen with his thoughts on Trident that even the Unions will be an issue...however there's nothing wrong with free thinking ideas to get the debate going. My only concern is that although his ideology is clearly striking a chord with parts of the electorate...large swathes of it are people that dont think too hard about how the policies would be implemented and hard that may be. Nevertheless I wait to see what else he comes up with interest. Its nice to have the potential of opposing choices when it comes to elections rather then a watered down version of another party. Well done sir. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 30 Sep 15 10.58am

I like Corbyn...I think he's mad as a box of frogs if he thinks his ideological views are implementable in their current form...but he's standing by his principles and as such that's extremely admirable.

He's already seen with his thoughts on Trident that even the Unions will be an issue...however there's nothing wrong with free thinking ideas to get the debate going.

My only concern is that although his ideology is clearly striking a chord with parts of the electorate...large swathes of it are people that dont think too hard about how the policies would be implemented and hard that may be.

Nevertheless I wait to see what else he comes up with interest. Its nice to have the potential of opposing choices when it comes to elections rather then a watered down version of another party.

Well done sir.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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