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Bias against Trump
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 Penge Eagle  Beckenham 12 Jan 18 6.37pm |
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As an aside, I thought the HOL is a right-wing echo chamber? Doesn't seem that way to me.
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| DanH SW2 12 Jan 18 6.44pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
As an aside, I thought the HOL is a right-wing echo chamber? Doesn't seem that way to me. Only started posting more again to restore some balance
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jan 18 6.45pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Only started posting more again to restore some balance Good!
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the despotic banana  Dept. of Baboon Maintenance 12 Jan 18 7.43pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Who is the alt-right? Not sure what your point is? Edited by Penge Eagle (12 Jan 2018 6.24pm) You were talking about "the Twitter hate mob" and the Twitter hate mob de nos jours comprises the alt-right and its dank, dank memes: "For Twitter, the two new restrictions are attempts to combat rampant harassment and abuse on the site. Users affiliated with the alt-right or neo-Nazi movements in particular have seized on the company’s notoriously lax oversight to stoke racial tensions, peddle false news reports and attack their critics".
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| Stirlingsays 12 Jan 18 7.47pm |
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Originally posted by kenbarr
Normally I would agree that any POTUS should pay a State Visit to the UK as a matter of course. However, the present occupant of the Office of the President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces has disgraced and demeaned said office and has taken the name of the United States of America into disrepute by his words and actions. As a veteran of over 10 years active duty service in the United States Army, I am appalled, ashamed and disgusted by this behaviour and have no further tolerance for his continuance in the office. Rant over. Well, you can be appalled, ashamed and disgusted but I'd like him over for a visit. We have had the Chinese premier over here for dinner with the Queen and greetings in Pariament.....a man responsible for torture and death on a daily scale.....I find the faux moralizing just amazing. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2018 7.48pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 7.55pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Shame cos Trump is entitled to visit here and people are entitled to protest. I'd like to have seen both. The Twitter hate mob has won! And the virtue-signalling Sadiq Khan can now pat himself on the back for his moral victory – not long after visiting state sponsors of terrorism, pakistan. Edited by Penge Eagle (12 Jan 2018 5.16pm) Quick question Penge - do you think pakistan spends more or less money than the US on funding proxy forces, propping up repressive client regimes and destabilising identified targets around the world? You should read up on your history of Central America over the last 40-odd years. What are the criteria for becoming a "state sponsor of terrorism"?
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 7.58pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Well, you can be appalled, ashamed and disgusted but I'd like him over for a visit. We have had the Chinese premier over here for dinner with the Queen and greetings in Pariament.....a man responsible for torture and death on a daily scale.....I find the faux moralizing just amazing. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2018 7.48pm) Yep, the Chinese regime is pretty nasty I'll agree. Not sure that they have that much to learn from the US in terms of killing their own people (how many executed prisoners and police shootings?) and using torture, though. It's just outsourced a lot more in the US, or dressed up as doing whatever it takes to protect Homeland Security.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Stirlingsays 12 Jan 18 8.15pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
Yep, the Chinese regime is pretty nasty I'll agree. Not sure that they have that much to learn from the US in terms of killing their own people (how many executed prisoners and police shootings?) and using torture, though. It's just outsourced a lot more in the US, or dressed up as doing whatever it takes to protect Homeland Security. Talk about false equivalence, there is no comparison......and I might add, what did you say when the Chinese premier was here? China also execute prisoners you know....and have no free speech. The US have a due process and don't have executions in every state by far. Plus the fact that the US has executions didn't see anyone having a problem with Obama did it? Police shootings....Again same fault.....Tell me the nation we have had here that doesn't have Police shootings? Comparing the US and China on torture just shows up this argument up as risible. Next time you talk crap about the US.....Please consider a visit over to China and say what you think...You wouldn't last long as a free man...then remember that we had them over for tea and greetings with the Queen......and you want to throw stuff at a democratically elected US president and celebrate him not coming. Talk about the woods from the trees.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jan 18 8.24pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
Quick question Penge - do you think pakistan spends more or less money than the US on funding proxy forces, propping up repressive client regimes and destabilising identified targets around the world? You should read up on your history of Central America over the last 40-odd years. What are the criteria for becoming a "state sponsor of terrorism"? Ah, I detect a bit of anti-American sentiment here... Nice bit of strawman arguing. pakistan is known to harbour terrorists from Islamic State, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Remember that notable guy, can't remember his name... Oh yeah, Osama Bin laden? the same terrorists that don't really like us in the UK. pakistan are a bunch of back stabbers. Sadiq Khan went to pakistan to help drum up trade, which is fine, but he puts his personal grandstanding ahead of what's best for the country by pissing off the US. Nobody said the US were saints, but in a post Brexit world, we should be keeping world leaders like Trump sweet and work with the nation with the largest economy and similar values.
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 8.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Talk about false equivalence, there is no comparison......and I might add, what did you say when the Chinese premier was here? China also execute prisoners you know....and have no free speech. The US have a due process and don't have executions in every state by far. Plus the fact that the US has executions didn't see anyone having a problem with Obama did it? Police shootings....Again same fault.....Tell me the nation we have had here that doesn't have Police shootings? Comparing the US and China on torture just shows you up as ridiculous. Next time you talk crap about the US.....Please consider a visit over to China and say what you think...You wouldn't last long as a free man...then remember that we had them over for tea and greetings with the Queen......and you want to throw stuff at a democratically elected US president.
Whatever, Stirling. I couldn't be arsed to comment on the Chinese guy's visit because, quite frankly, who cares? If you don't like people calling out the myriad failings with the US, that's your right. It won't make those issues go away, though. I stand by the fact that - as I said - I don't think the Chinese have much to learn from the US about torture. I think that's a very safe statement to make. Perhaps you think the CIA doesn't ever interrogate anyone and that places like Bagrham and Guantanamo are just figments of the collective left-wing imagination? A cursory re-read of my post will remind you that I not extolling the wonders of the freedom-loving First Secretary. Remind me where I mentioned the democratically-elected POTUS in my comment about China? And as for China, I have no need to visit it but I'm confident that I would remain "a free man" as long I stayed on the right side of their laws - as I would in the US. Keep the hyperbole coming.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jan 18 8.35pm |
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Originally posted by the despotic banana
You were talking about "the Twitter hate mob" and the Twitter hate mob de nos jours comprises the alt-right and its dank, dank memes: "For Twitter, the two new restrictions are attempts to combat rampant harassment and abuse on the site. Users affiliated with the alt-right or neo-Nazi movements in particular have seized on the company’s notoriously lax oversight to stoke racial tensions, peddle false news reports and attack their critics". Of course, only the alt-right say nasty things! It's pretty well known that Twitter is dominated by left-wing activists and Marxist students. You only to log on while Question Time is on to see for yourself. The Twitter attacks on Tory MPs and antisemitism has been pretty bad of late. There was an expose that found the company itself purged conservative views and also evidence of "shadow banning" for right of centre accounts.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jan 18 8.40pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
Quick question Penge - do you think pakistan spends more or less money than the US on funding proxy forces, propping up repressive client regimes and destabilising identified targets around the world? You should read up on your history of Central America over the last 40-odd years. What are the criteria for becoming a "state sponsor of terrorism"? Out of interest, did you object to Obama's UK visit due to the USA's ills of the past too?
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 8.42pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Ah, I detect a bit of anti-American sentiment here... Nice bit of strawman arguing. pakistan is known to harbour terrorists from Islamic State, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Remember that notable guy, can't remember his name... Oh yeah, Osama Bin laden? the same terrorists that don't really like us in the UK. pakistan are a bunch of back stabbers. Sadiq Khan went to pakistan to help drum up trade, which is fine, but he puts his personal grandstanding ahead of what's best for the country by pissing off the US. Nobody said the US were saints, but in a post Brexit world, we should be keeping world leaders like Trump sweet and work with the nation with the largest economy and similar values. Penge, I actually agree with you that Sadiq Khan is doing himself no favours whatsoever. As for "state terrorism sponsorship" equating to having some (very) dangerous lowlifes living in the ungoverned wilderness where the government's army is too afraid to set foot....well I think that long term direct government agency involvement in death squads (El Salvador, Honduras et al) and full-on terrorist insurgency (Nicaragua) amounts to state sponsorship of terrorism. Do you? Feel free to correct with with evidence that the US wasn't involved in these and similar activities. For the avoidance of doubt, acts of violence against innocent civilians (i.e. terrorism) are heinous. I don't make distinctions between the perpetrators and sponsors. That makes me pro-innocent people and anti-terrorist; if states are happy to see innocents die to further their geopolitical aims, why should we turn a blind eye?
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 8.47pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
Out of interest, did you object to Obama's UK visit due to the USA's ills of the past too? No. I don't object to Trump's visit either as I've said recently on this thread. Obama was too slick (not a compliment) an operator to provide much value though and was many orders of magnitude less hawkish than Trump.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jan 18 8.54pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
No. I don't object to Trump's visit either as I've said recently on this thread. Obama was too slick (not a compliment) an operator to provide much value though and was many orders of magnitude less hawkish than Trump. I agree and also much of your previous post...
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 8.58pm |
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Originally posted by Penge Eagle
I agree and also much of your previous post... Glad we're doing our bit to dismantle the "right wing echo chamber" ;-)
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jan 18 9.03pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
Glad we're doing our bit to dismantle the "right wing echo chamber" ;-) Hahaha!
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 12 Jan 18 9.20pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
One of the few correct things Obama did that I totally agreed with was apologie for CIA meddling in foreign countries affairs in the past. Though only a fool thinks that any major country isn't meddling in every single country they have a major interest in. When you look at the behaviour of the US in general....the country that basically funds the UN..the aid it gives around the world...the country that defended Europe against Russia after ww2....a country with democracy and free speech....it really makes me shake my head. So those promoting false equivalences between the US and one party states..... whilst living in a nice safe democracy.....well, I regard those people as seriously misguided. I have criticisms about the US....but I'm not neutral as I'm a western man with freedoms....partly thanks to them. Some people don't really realise or don't care. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jan 2018 9.05pm) Appreciate your measured response Stirling. The US could be so much more than it has now become. It's pretty much become the type of haughty, warmongering and even fascist (at a state level, if you use the dictionary definitions of fascist) power that it joined in two world wars against. If we were to start looking at how it (under Republican governments especially) actively pursues policies aimed at screwing over its own citizens for the further enrichment of the very, very rich, I may not get around to opening the bottle of Westvleteren 12 that's waiting for me in the kitchen. I would have something to be really cross with Trump about then! Have a good weekend. Edited by Mr_Gristle (12 Jan 2018 9.28pm)
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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