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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 09 Jul 18 9.39am
Originally posted by Badger11 Just reminded my MP if the deal goes ahead he can forget my vote at the next election. As many of us suspected this is a betrayal of the voters, I didn't expect much else to be honest. May is a remainer she is putting party interests ahead of the wishes of the country. As Sir Humphrey explained to the minister you avoid doing something by putting the awkward bit in the title and then avoiding it in the text of the document. In this case no doubt the document is called the UK leaving the EU, and then we don't we just call it something else. What worries me is that this is our opening position the EU will no doubt wring concessions. No thanks I would rather leave without a deal. As for the Tories remember Nick Clegg and the Students Loans pledge? Whatever happened to him? Corbyn must be laughing his socks off. The EU's strategy of just rejecting any sort of fudged position has worked very well to date so I see no need for them to deviate from it quite yet. May's position will keep softening until we're at Norway or no Brexit and they will say thank you very much. No deal a non-started given legislation in UK parliament RE Irish border and given parliamentary arithmetic. What a buggers muddle. I think the whole thing should be stopped, but I have pointed out on here that we should be doing full Brexit or no Brexit not a weak pastiche of soft Brexit. Waste of bloody time, money and effort. This is all Cameron's fault for doing zero prep and not making it abundantly clear on the voting slip what the actual choices were and saying Brexit will mean x,y and z and laying out a roadmap for how it would happen. Thanks to him all we've had is Tory party squabbling and May finally pushing us towards a pointless BINO following a disastrous election campaign and rejection of her strategy for Brexit and the country.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 09 Jul 18 9.39am

Originally posted by Badger11

Just reminded my MP if the deal goes ahead he can forget my vote at the next election.

As many of us suspected this is a betrayal of the voters, I didn't expect much else to be honest. May is a remainer she is putting party interests ahead of the wishes of the country.

As Sir Humphrey explained to the minister you avoid doing something by putting the awkward bit in the title and then avoiding it in the text of the document. In this case no doubt the document is called the UK leaving the EU, and then we don't we just call it something else.

What worries me is that this is our opening position the EU will no doubt wring concessions.

No thanks I would rather leave without a deal. As for the Tories remember Nick Clegg and the Students Loans pledge? Whatever happened to him? Corbyn must be laughing his socks off.

The EU's strategy of just rejecting any sort of fudged position has worked very well to date so I see no need for them to deviate from it quite yet. May's position will keep softening until we're at Norway or no Brexit and they will say thank you very much. No deal a non-started given legislation in UK parliament RE Irish border and given parliamentary arithmetic.

What a buggers muddle.

I think the whole thing should be stopped, but I have pointed out on here that we should be doing full Brexit or no Brexit not a weak pastiche of soft Brexit. Waste of bloody time, money and effort. This is all Cameron's fault for doing zero prep and not making it abundantly clear on the voting slip what the actual choices were and saying Brexit will mean x,y and z and laying out a roadmap for how it would happen. Thanks to him all we've had is Tory party squabbling and May finally pushing us towards a pointless BINO following a disastrous election campaign and rejection of her strategy for Brexit and the country.

Oliver Bodega Bay 09 Jul 18 9.41am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle He admitted he wouldn't have done a good job of delivering Brexit. Shame he only realised this 2 years after the rest of us. Now whoever it is has a couple of months to do the job he's been not bothering to do for the last 2 years. Incompetent moron, allergic to detail. Good riddance. David Davis had spent just 4 hours in talks with Michel Barnier this year. I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.

Oliver

Bodega Bay 09 Jul 18 9.41am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

He admitted he wouldn't have done a good job of delivering Brexit. Shame he only realised this 2 years after the rest of us. Now whoever it is has a couple of months to do the job he's been not bothering to do for the last 2 years.

Incompetent moron, allergic to detail. Good riddance.

David Davis had spent just 4 hours in talks with Michel Barnier this year.

I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.

Islington Eagle North of the River 09 Jul 18 9.54am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle The EU's strategy of just rejecting any sort of fudged position has worked very well to date so I see no need for them to deviate from it quite yet. May's position will keep softening until we're at Norway or no Brexit and they will say thank you very much. No deal a non-started given legislation in UK parliament RE Irish border and given parliamentary arithmetic. What a buggers muddle. I think the whole thing should be stopped, but I have pointed out on here that we should be doing full Brexit or no Brexit not a weak pastiche of soft Brexit. Waste of bloody time, money and effort. This is all Cameron's fault for doing zero prep and not making it abundantly clear on the voting slip what the actual choices were and saying Brexit will mean x,y and z and laying out a roadmap for how it would happen. Thanks to him all we've had is Tory party squabbling and May finally pushing us towards a pointless BINO following a disastrous election campaign and rejection of her strategy for Brexit and the country. 100% this. Palace Fan

Islington Eagle

North of the River 09 Jul 18 9.54am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

What a buggers muddle.

100% this.

Palace Fan

Oliver Bodega Bay 09 Jul 18 10.07am
Originally posted by Penge Eagle Let's hope she follows very soon... None of the Brexiteers want the job they don't want Brexit on their hands and their legacy. I have prepared one of my own time capsules. I have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year 3000. It will show them what we are really like.

Oliver

Bodega Bay 09 Jul 18 10.07am

Originally posted by Penge Eagle

Let's hope she follows very soon...

None of the Brexiteers want the job they don't want Brexit on their hands and their legacy.

Penge Eagle Beckenham 09 Jul 18 10.54am
Again, the biggest mistake was having a remainer in charge of negotiations.

Penge Eagle

Beckenham 09 Jul 18 10.54am

Again, the biggest mistake was having a remainer in charge of negotiations.

Stirlingsays 09 Jul 18 11.31am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle The EU's strategy of just rejecting any sort of fudged position has worked very well to date so I see no need for them to deviate from it quite yet. May's position will keep softening until we're at Norway or no Brexit and they will say thank you very much. No deal a non-started given legislation in UK parliament RE Irish border and given parliamentary arithmetic. What a buggers muddle. I think the whole thing should be stopped, but I have pointed out on here that we should be doing full Brexit or no Brexit not a weak pastiche of soft Brexit. Waste of bloody time, money and effort. This is all Cameron's fault for doing zero prep and not making it abundantly clear on the voting slip what the actual choices were and saying Brexit will mean x,y and z and laying out a roadmap for how it would happen. Thanks to him all we've had is Tory party squabbling and May finally pushing us towards a pointless BINO following a disastrous election campaign and rejection of her strategy for Brexit and the country. Cameron made it very clear during the campaign.....which was heavily biased to 'remain' both in funding and media coverage. He made it abundantly clear what he thought the downsides were. The people who voted leave rejected the EU that has been signed up to by previous governments on several expansionist agreements without any agreement from themselves. Your risible suggestion that a voting slip could act as some form of 'remainer' propaganda paper is risible. In my view it shows arrogance and contempt for the democratic process and any sort of balance between the two choices. Was this done when we had the vote on the common market? Of course not. The decision was made and all that is happening is the predictable mess when you have remainers in leadership and a remainer parliament. I join Ukip this month and I expect quite a few previous Tory voters will as well....perhaps a few Labour ones as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 12.20pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

09 Jul 18 11.31am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

What a buggers muddle.

Cameron made it very clear during the campaign.....which was heavily biased to 'remain' both in funding and media coverage. He made it abundantly clear what he thought the downsides were.

The people who voted leave rejected the EU that has been signed up to by previous governments on several expansionist agreements without any agreement from themselves.

Your risible suggestion that a voting slip could act as some form of 'remainer' propaganda paper is risible. In my view it shows arrogance and contempt for the democratic process and any sort of balance between the two choices.

Was this done when we had the vote on the common market? Of course not.

The decision was made and all that is happening is the predictable mess when you have remainers in leadership and a remainer parliament.

I join Ukip this month and I expect quite a few previous Tory voters will as well....perhaps a few Labour ones as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 12.20pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 09 Jul 18 11.48am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Cameron made it very clear during the campaign.....which was heavily biased to 'remain' both in funding and media coverage. He made it abundantly clear what he thought the downsides were. The people who voted leave rejected the EU that has been signed up to by previous governments on several expansionist agreements without any agreement from themselves. Your risible suggestion that a voting slip could act as some form of 'remainer' propaganda paper is risible. In my view it shows arrogance and contempt for the democratic process and any sort of balance between the two choices. Was this done when we had the vote on the common market? Of course not. The decision was made and all that is happening is the predictable mess when you have remainers in leadership and a remainer parliament. I join Ukip this month and I expect quite a few previous Tory voters will as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 11.32am) You're living in a parallel universe. Quite clearly no plan was made, otherwise we wouldn't be 2 years down the line with still no published govt Brexit strategy. If there was one prior to the vote and everyone knew what they were voting for why has it taken 2 years to arrive at this point?

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 09 Jul 18 11.48am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Cameron made it very clear during the campaign.....which was heavily biased to 'remain' both in funding and media coverage. He made it abundantly clear what he thought the downsides were.

The people who voted leave rejected the EU that has been signed up to by previous governments on several expansionist agreements without any agreement from themselves.

Was this done when we had the vote on the common market? Of course not.

The decision was made and all that is happening is the predictable mess when you have remainers in leadership and a remainer parliament.

I join Ukip this month and I expect quite a few previous Tory voters will as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 11.32am)

You're living in a parallel universe. Quite clearly no plan was made, otherwise we wouldn't be 2 years down the line with still no published govt Brexit strategy. If there was one prior to the vote and everyone knew what they were voting for why has it taken 2 years to arrive at this point?

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 09 Jul 18 12.03pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Cameron made it very clear during the campaign.....which was heavily biased to 'remain' both in funding and media coverage. He made it abundantly clear what he thought the downsides were. The people who voted leave rejected the EU that has been signed up to by previous governments on several expansionist agreements without any agreement from themselves. Your risible suggestion that a voting slip could act as some form of 'remainer' propaganda paper is risible. In my view it shows arrogance and contempt for the democratic process and any sort of balance between the two choices. Was this done when we had the vote on the common market? Of course not. The decision was made and all that is happening is the predictable mess when you have remainers in leadership and a remainer parliament. I join Ukip this month and I expect quite a few previous Tory voters will as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 11.32am) I imagine you're supporting the calls for Maybot to be deactivated?

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 09 Jul 18 12.03pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Cameron made it very clear during the campaign.....which was heavily biased to 'remain' both in funding and media coverage. He made it abundantly clear what he thought the downsides were.

The people who voted leave rejected the EU that has been signed up to by previous governments on several expansionist agreements without any agreement from themselves.

Was this done when we had the vote on the common market? Of course not.

The decision was made and all that is happening is the predictable mess when you have remainers in leadership and a remainer parliament.

I join Ukip this month and I expect quite a few previous Tory voters will as well.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 11.32am)

I imagine you're supporting the calls for Maybot to be deactivated?

Stirlingsays 09 Jul 18 12.14pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle You're living in a parallel universe. Quite clearly no plan was made, otherwise we wouldn't be 2 years down the line with still no published govt Brexit strategy. If there was one prior to the vote and everyone knew what they were voting for why has it taken 2 years to arrive at this point? The one sensible comment you've written that I can concur with is that we indeed are living in parallel universes. Both figuratively in a political sense and perhaps physically for all of us. Your allusion to a 'plan' is a disingenuous criticism. Anyone with any sense understands that political parties are collections of people with widely different perspectives. Hence when they are forced to make collective decisions all you will end up with is a fudge. A 'published' strategy would be the height of stupidity. To make this known before time would be purely weakening your negotiating position and it's just another in the long string of disingenuous criticisms of remainers poking around looking to literally subvert democracy. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 12.16pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

09 Jul 18 12.14pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

The one sensible comment you've written that I can concur with is that we indeed are living in parallel universes. Both figuratively in a political sense and perhaps physically for all of us.

Your allusion to a 'plan' is a disingenuous criticism. Anyone with any sense understands that political parties are collections of people with widely different perspectives. Hence when they are forced to make collective decisions all you will end up with is a fudge.

A 'published' strategy would be the height of stupidity. To make this known before time would be purely weakening your negotiating position and it's just another in the long string of disingenuous criticisms of remainers poking around looking to literally subvert democracy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 12.16pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 09 Jul 18 12.15pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I imagine you're supporting the calls for Maybot to be deactivated? Hell yeah. The country is far far more important than the Tory party. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

09 Jul 18 12.15pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I imagine you're supporting the calls for Maybot to be deactivated?

Hell yeah.

The country is far far more important than the Tory party.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Islington Eagle North of the River 09 Jul 18 12.54pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The one sensible comment you've written that I can concur with is that we indeed are living in parallel universes. Both figuratively in a political sense and perhaps physically for all of us. Your allusion to a 'plan' is a disingenuous criticism. Anyone with any sense understands that political parties are collections of people with widely different perspectives. Hence when they are forced to make collective decisions all you will end up with is a fudge. A 'published' strategy would be the height of stupidity. To make this known before time would be purely weakening your negotiating position and it's just another in the long string of disingenuous criticisms of remainers poking around looking to literally subvert democracy. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 12.16pm) OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan? Area's I suggest you cover include: Regulatory alignment Trade dispute resolution mechanism customs rules and phytosanitary controls Northern Island Border - including single energy market Financial passporting and other recognition of UK professional qualifications and standards Immigration policy Security, international arrest warrant and data sharing Air transport policy / Open skies agreement Fisheries policy Environmental policy Replacing all the agencies and departments that we get as part of the EU and setting them up in Whitehall. Infrastructure to support your preferred plan (inc. Cost and lead in time) etc etc etc Answers that include "Brexit means Brexit", "taking back control of our laws, our borders, whatever" "Red white and bollocks Brexit" are not sufficient. This is not meant to be a "disingenuous Criticism" it is just a statement of fact. If you want to leave the EU and have a new relationship with our geographic neighbour and the source of much of our imports and exports then you need to have a plan. That is before you even start the long and difficult task of re-negotiating all our existing FTA's we get as members of the largest and most successful trading bloc in the world; and then creating entirely new FTA's. All of this in an international shark tank where Trump and Putin in alliance are looking to destroy the current established world order. You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good. Palace Fan

Islington Eagle

North of the River 09 Jul 18 12.54pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The one sensible comment you've written that I can concur with is that we indeed are living in parallel universes. Both figuratively in a political sense and perhaps physically for all of us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 12.16pm)

OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan?

Area's I suggest you cover include:
Regulatory alignment
Trade dispute resolution mechanism
customs rules and phytosanitary controls
Northern Island Border - including single energy market
Financial passporting and other recognition of UK professional qualifications and standards
Immigration policy
Security, international arrest warrant and data sharing
Air transport policy / Open skies agreement
Fisheries policy
Environmental policy
Replacing all the agencies and departments that we get as part of the EU and setting them up in Whitehall.
Infrastructure to support your preferred plan (inc. Cost and lead in time)
etc etc etc

Answers that include "Brexit means Brexit", "taking back control of our laws, our borders, whatever" "Red white and bollocks Brexit" are not sufficient. This is not meant to be a "disingenuous Criticism" it is just a statement of fact. If you want to leave the EU and have a new relationship with our geographic neighbour and the source of much of our imports and exports then you need to have a plan. That is before you even start the long and difficult task of re-negotiating all our existing FTA's we get as members of the largest and most successful trading bloc in the world; and then creating entirely new FTA's. All of this in an international shark tank where Trump and Putin in alliance are looking to destroy the current established world order.

You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good.

Palace Fan

Stirlingsays 09 Jul 18 1.03pm
Originally posted by Islington Eagle OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan? Area's I suggest you cover include: Regulatory alignment Trade dispute resolution mechanism customs rules and phytosanitary controls Northern Island Border - including single energy market Financial passporting and other recognition of UK professional qualifications and standards Immigration policy Security, international arrest warrant and data sharing Air transport policy / Open skies agreement Fisheries policy Environmental policy Replacing all the agencies and departments that we get as part of the EU and setting them up in Whitehall. Infrastructure to support your preferred plan (inc. Cost and lead in time) etc etc etc Answers that include "Brexit means Brexit", "taking back control of our laws, our borders, whatever" "Red white and bollocks Brexit" are not sufficient. This is not meant to be a "disingenuous Criticism" it is just a statement of fact. If you want to leave the EU and have a new relationship with our geographic neighbour and the source of much of our imports and exports then you need to have a plan. That is before you even start the long and difficult task of re-negotiating all our existing FTA's we get as members of the largest and most successful trading bloc in the world; and then creating entirely new FTA's. All of this in an international shark tank where Trump and Putin in alliance are looking to destroy the current established world order. You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good. With respect the scope of an answer like that would involve a large amount of time and I rarely engage in long answers to posters I don't have a previous acquaintance with. A more time friendly method would be tackling items in turn. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 1.04pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

09 Jul 18 1.03pm

Originally posted by Islington Eagle

OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan?

You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good.

With respect the scope of an answer like that would involve a large amount of time and I rarely engage in long answers to posters I don't have a previous acquaintance with.

A more time friendly method would be tackling items in turn.

Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jul 2018 1.04pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Islington Eagle North of the River 09 Jul 18 1.10pm
shoot - lets go. Where do you want to start.. Palace Fan

Islington Eagle

North of the River 09 Jul 18 1.10pm

shoot - lets go. Where do you want to start..

Palace Fan

steeleye20 Croydon 09 Jul 18 1.15pm
Originally posted by Islington Eagle OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan? Area's I suggest you cover include: Regulatory alignment Trade dispute resolution mechanism customs rules and phytosanitary controls Northern Island Border - including single energy market Financial passporting and other recognition of UK professional qualifications and standards Immigration policy Security, international arrest warrant and data sharing Air transport policy / Open skies agreement Fisheries policy Environmental policy Replacing all the agencies and departments that we get as part of the EU and setting them up in Whitehall. Infrastructure to support your preferred plan (inc. Cost and lead in time) etc etc etc Answers that include "Brexit means Brexit", "taking back control of our laws, our borders, whatever" "Red white and bollocks Brexit" are not sufficient. This is not meant to be a "disingenuous Criticism" it is just a statement of fact. If you want to leave the EU and have a new relationship with our geographic neighbour and the source of much of our imports and exports then you need to have a plan. That is before you even start the long and difficult task of re-negotiating all our existing FTA's we get as members of the largest and most successful trading bloc in the world; and then creating entirely new FTA's. All of this in an international shark tank where Trump and Putin in alliance are looking to destroy the current established world order. You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good. You have really hit the spot with that 40 years. As Mrs Merkel said she did not think 40 years of integration could be unravelled in 2 years. Davis may finally have realised that he could not avoid the detail any longer and that he had better get lost before the whole cock-up hits.

steeleye20

Croydon 09 Jul 18 1.15pm

Originally posted by Islington Eagle

OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan?

You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good.

You have really hit the spot with that 40 years.

As Mrs Merkel said she did not think 40 years of integration could be unravelled in 2 years.

Davis may finally have realised that he could not avoid the detail any longer and that he had better get lost before the whole cock-up hits.

dannyboy1978 09 Jul 18 1.17pm
Originally posted by Islington Eagle OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan? Area's I suggest you cover include: Regulatory alignment Trade dispute resolution mechanism customs rules and phytosanitary controls Northern Island Border - including single energy market Financial passporting and other recognition of UK professional qualifications and standards Immigration policy Security, international arrest warrant and data sharing Air transport policy / Open skies agreement Fisheries policy Environmental policy Replacing all the agencies and departments that we get as part of the EU and setting them up in Whitehall. Infrastructure to support your preferred plan (inc. Cost and lead in time) etc etc etc Answers that include "Brexit means Brexit", "taking back control of our laws, our borders, whatever" "Red white and bollocks Brexit" are not sufficient. This is not meant to be a "disingenuous Criticism" it is just a statement of fact. If you want to leave the EU and have a new relationship with our geographic neighbour and the source of much of our imports and exports then you need to have a plan. That is before you even start the long and difficult task of re-negotiating all our existing FTA's we get as members of the largest and most successful trading bloc in the world; and then creating entirely new FTA's. All of this in an international shark tank where Trump and Putin in alliance are looking to destroy the current established world order. You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good. I think everyone has their own personal reasons ! For me I never voted for mass immigration nor have I got any ability to change it. Then came the referendum,my voice can be heard at last! I'm not voting for short term either !! any hardships or problems can be resolved but I know my kids will be better off when they are adults!

dannyboy1978

09 Jul 18 1.17pm

Originally posted by Islington Eagle

OK - so ignore Gove / Bojo / Davis / Rees Moog / Corbyn's lack of any sort of coherent plan. what's your personal preferred plan?

You've had 40 years to come up with it so it should be pretty good.

I think everyone has their own personal reasons !
For me I never voted for mass immigration nor have I got any ability to change it. Then came the referendum,my voice can be heard at last!

I'm not voting for short term either !! any hardships or problems can be resolved but I know my kids will be better off when they are adults!

Stirlingsays 09 Jul 18 1.23pm
Originally posted by Islington Eagle shoot - lets go. Where do you want to start.. Regulatory alignment is as good as any. The vote was to leave the EU. While there is little doubt that the principle reason for this was immigration the nature of the EU means that leaving requires leaving the EU in all forms. So 'regulatory alignment' should only occur where there are no clashes with our own interests and where the EU agree. Where there is no agreement on alignment we require our own rules. However, I think this issue has already been dealt with and at least some parts of alignment passed the parliament earlier in the year. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

09 Jul 18 1.23pm

Originally posted by Islington Eagle

shoot - lets go. Where do you want to start..

Regulatory alignment is as good as any.

The vote was to leave the EU. While there is little doubt that the principle reason for this was immigration the nature of the EU means that leaving requires leaving the EU in all forms.

So 'regulatory alignment' should only occur where there are no clashes with our own interests and where the EU agree.

Where there is no agreement on alignment we require our own rules.

However, I think this issue has already been dealt with and at least some parts of alignment passed the parliament earlier in the year.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Islington Eagle North of the River 09 Jul 18 1.28pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 I think everyone has their own personal reasons ! For me I never voted for mass immigration nor have I got any ability to change it. Then came the referendum,my voice can be heard at last! I'm not voting for short term either !! any hardships or problems can be resolved but I know my kids will be better off when they are adults! Hi Danny: What immigration policy do you want after Brexit? What aspect of immigration do you think that leaving the EU will fix (remember over half of all immigration is non-EU and will not change as a result of Brexit)? Also if Brexit closes Car and plane factories , turns Kent into a giant lorry park, grounds all the flights between britain and Europe and empties supermarkets and pharmacies of food and medicine, as well as preventing cancer patients getting their radiotheraphy; is this an ok short term price to pay. What for you is an OK'ish price to pay? 5% less money in your pocket, 10% money less inyour pocket, 15% less? All on the "maybe" that it will be better for the next generation? Just interested in this short term pain equation. Not trying to be funny. I am just interested how much "pain" is OK for you. Palace Fan

Islington Eagle

North of the River 09 Jul 18 1.28pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

I think everyone has their own personal reasons !
For me I never voted for mass immigration nor have I got any ability to change it. Then came the referendum,my voice can be heard at last!

I'm not voting for short term either !! any hardships or problems can be resolved but I know my kids will be better off when they are adults!

Hi Danny:
What immigration policy do you want after Brexit? What aspect of immigration do you think that leaving the EU will fix (remember over half of all immigration is non-EU and will not change as a result of Brexit)?
Also if Brexit closes Car and plane factories , turns Kent into a giant lorry park, grounds all the flights between britain and Europe and empties supermarkets and pharmacies of food and medicine, as well as preventing cancer patients getting their radiotheraphy; is this an ok short term price to pay. What for you is an OK'ish price to pay? 5% less money in your pocket, 10% money less inyour pocket, 15% less? All on the "maybe" that it will be better for the next generation? Just interested in this short term pain equation. Not trying to be funny. I am just interested how much "pain" is OK for you.

Palace Fan

dannyboy1978 09 Jul 18 1.37pm
Originally posted by Islington Eagle Hi Danny: What immigration policy do you want after Brexit? What aspect of immigration do you think that leaving the EU will fix (remember over half of all immigration is non-EU and will not change as a result of Brexit)? Also if Brexit closes Car and plane factories , turns Kent into a giant lorry park, grounds all the flights between britain and Europe and empties supermarkets and pharmacies of food and medicine, as well as preventing cancer patients getting their radiotheraphy; is this an ok short term price to pay. What for you is an OK'ish price to pay? 5% less money in your pocket, 10% money less inyour pocket, 15% less? All on the "maybe" that it will be better for the next generation? Just interested in this short term pain equation. Not trying to be funny. I am just interested how much "pain" is OK for you. Before I respond can I ask you how we managed before we entered the EU?

dannyboy1978

09 Jul 18 1.37pm

Originally posted by Islington Eagle

Before I respond can I ask you how we managed before we entered the EU?

dannyboy1978 09 Jul 18 1.47pm
Originally posted by Islington Eagle Hi Danny: ? What aspect of immigration do you think that leaving the EU will fix (remember over half of all immigration is non-EU and will not change as a result of Brexit)? between britain and Europe and empties supermarkets and pharmacies of food and medicine, as well as preventing cancer patients getting their radiotheraphy; is this an ok short term price to pay. What for you is an OK'ish price to pay? 5% less money in your pocket, 10% money less inyour pocket, 15% less? All on the "maybe" that it will be better for the next generation? Just interested in this short term pain equation. Not trying to be funny. I am just interested how much "pain" is OK for you. 1.What immigration policy do you want after Brexit. A policy that doesn't flood the employment market with cheap wages and controls immigration to jobs we need. Immigration that doesn't include bring over the whole family that negates the tax made from expense of schooling and hospitals and alike. 2.I cant influence immigration from non EU countries but I would if I had the vote !! 3.Also IF Brexit closes Car and plane factories , turns Kent into a giant lorry park, grounds all the flights IF !!!! Dont take it personally but great countries don't go on a BUT WHAT IF policy!! otherwise nothing will ever get done. I could say to you back, what IF it all works out? You don't know, but I can understand why you are scared.

dannyboy1978

09 Jul 18 1.47pm

Originally posted by Islington Eagle

Hi Danny:
? What aspect of immigration do you think that leaving the EU will fix (remember over half of all immigration is non-EU and will not change as a result of Brexit)?
between britain and Europe and empties supermarkets and pharmacies of food and medicine, as well as preventing cancer patients getting their radiotheraphy; is this an ok short term price to pay. What for you is an OK'ish price to pay? 5% less money in your pocket, 10% money less inyour pocket, 15% less? All on the "maybe" that it will be better for the next generation? Just interested in this short term pain equation. Not trying to be funny. I am just interested how much "pain" is OK for you.

1.What immigration policy do you want after Brexit.
A policy that doesn't flood the employment market with cheap wages and controls immigration to jobs we need. Immigration that doesn't include bring over the whole family that negates the tax made from expense of schooling and hospitals and alike.

2.I cant influence immigration from non EU countries but I would if I had the vote !!

3.Also IF Brexit closes Car and plane factories , turns Kent into a giant lorry park, grounds all the flights

IF !!!! Dont take it personally but great countries don't go on a BUT WHAT IF policy!! otherwise nothing will ever get done. I could say to you back, what IF it all works out? You don't know, but I can understand why you are scared.

Islington Eagle North of the River 09 Jul 18 2.03pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 Before I respond can I ask you how we managed before we entered the EU? In the 40 years since we joined the EU the world has changed in many many ways. Advances in Technology and communications have enabled a far more connected and interconnected world. The world has got a lot smaller. International companies have used technology to create comlicated and efficient businesses that rely on frictionless trade, international labour, standardised international rules and regulations. this has meant that we now have amazing items like smart phones in our pockets that we can afford. Bits of them are designed in the UK (ARM chips), with software developed in the United states, with raw materials from all over the world, assembled in (mostly) China, and shipped to you at a price that is affordable to many many people. This is the miracle of the modern world. Slogans like Buy British etc. are as outdated as saying how did we mange before we joined, because there are so few things in any country that are not the result of an international effort. I 100% agree that this has not benefitted everyone. Manual workers in the UK have been pitted against manual workers in China and have lost out. However this is how things are going to move in the future. Artificial intelligence is soon going to make many people in office jobs redundant. Blaming the EU or some other bogey man for this disruption is very wrong. What we need to do is look at a new settlement for all working people and to make sure that we redistribute the dividend that technlogy has provided more fairly. The vast wealth that technology has created for the few (such as Amazon's Jeff Bezos) has been at the expense of manual workers and will next be white collar workers. We need to understand how to resolve this issue, while not discouraging innovation but recompensing the people that have suffered as the industrial age moves to a post-industrial age. In short we are not going to be able to wind back the UK to the age before the EU - that time has gone. Saying how did we cope before is like saying things were great before the Romans came. Well yeah kind of - if you want to paint yourself in Woad and live in the bronze age... There are issues with immigration but leaving the EU in itself is not going to fix them. Palace Fan

Islington Eagle

North of the River 09 Jul 18 2.03pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Before I respond can I ask you how we managed before we entered the EU?

In the 40 years since we joined the EU the world has changed in many many ways. Advances in Technology and communications have enabled a far more connected and interconnected world. The world has got a lot smaller. International companies have used technology to create comlicated and efficient businesses that rely on frictionless trade, international labour, standardised international rules and regulations. this has meant that we now have amazing items like smart phones in our pockets that we can afford. Bits of them are designed in the UK (ARM chips), with software developed in the United states, with raw materials from all over the world, assembled in (mostly) China, and shipped to you at a price that is affordable to many many people. This is the miracle of the modern world.
Slogans like Buy British etc. are as outdated as saying how did we mange before we joined, because there are so few things in any country that are not the result of an international effort.
I 100% agree that this has not benefitted everyone. Manual workers in the UK have been pitted against manual workers in China and have lost out. However this is how things are going to move in the future. Artificial intelligence is soon going to make many people in office jobs redundant. Blaming the EU or some other bogey man for this disruption is very wrong. What we need to do is look at a new settlement for all working people and to make sure that we redistribute the dividend that technlogy has provided more fairly. The vast wealth that technology has created for the few (such as Amazon's Jeff Bezos) has been at the expense of manual workers and will next be white collar workers. We need to understand how to resolve this issue, while not discouraging innovation but recompensing the people that have suffered as the industrial age moves to a post-industrial age.
In short we are not going to be able to wind back the UK to the age before the EU - that time has gone. Saying how did we cope before is like saying things were great before the Romans came. Well yeah kind of - if you want to paint yourself in Woad and live in the bronze age...
There are issues with immigration but leaving the EU in itself is not going to fix them.

Palace Fan

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