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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 exbiggineagle  Coney Hall Village 30 Jul 18 8.52am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
That's a risible point. We can't legally strike deals with foreign countries while we are apart of the EU. 'Foreign countries' want the EU single market. The UK could never offer any of the advantages of the single market. So trade deals there are none. After we leave especially. "The UK could never offer any of the advantages of the single market." We could offer tariff free goods and import non EU tariff carrying goods, which the EU cant outside the single market. Win win for the UK and its people.
#Khanout |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Jul 18 8.58am |
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Originally posted by europalace
That's what the EU still is, a customs and trading union that gives massive opportunities for its citizens to live and/or work anywhere in a trading bloc consisting of 500 million people. It's only something else in the minds of those who want to blame something else for the UK's internal issues. The UK like every other EU member has the opportunity to deport EU citizens that have not found work and are not self supporting after 3 months in the country. It chooses not to do that. More immigrants have come into the UK every year from outside the EU since the UK has been an EU member. Nearly every EU citizen in the UK is working, paying tax and contributing to the economy and society. What irks those that voted leave is that they were shown up with regards work ethic and culture. That's what they hate and that's why they selfishly want to take the UK back decades and ruining the prospects of the young and future generations in the country.
EU migrants aren’t the big bet contributor you think they are (one for Sterling). It’s just the income tax they pay, and that’s sometimes before they go back to Poland with all their savings. If they stay into retirement then they’ll drain the coffers then too. We’re also in a scheme of importing cheap labour and not training and developing our own so it isn’t simply a wonderful opportunity to move work and trade for all. I’m not against immigration. I’m amazed at the houses some East Europeans are living in the further south you go of Croydon. Certainly not 16 to a 3 bed house. Far from it. Good luck to those raising families in large semis. But I am against the sheer numbers and the damage it does to our own citizens and the chances for their offspring, although sometimes the ignorant I see on Twitter deserve it. The description of Ponzi scheme on here isn’t far wrong.
COYP |
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| .TUX. 30 Jul 18 8.59am |
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Originally posted by europalace
That's what the EU still is, a customs and trading union that gives massive opportunities for its citizens to live and/or work anywhere in a trading bloc consisting of 500 million people. It's only something else in the minds of those who want to blame something else for the UK's internal issues. The UK like every other EU member has the opportunity to deport EU citizens that have not found work and are not self supporting after 3 months in the country. It chooses not to do that. More immigrants have come into the UK every year from outside the EU since the UK has been an EU member. Nearly every EU citizen in the UK is working, paying tax and contributing to the economy and society. What irks some that voted leave is that they were shown up with regards work ethic and culture. That's what they hate and that's why they selfishly want to take the UK back decades and ruining the prospects of the young and future generations in the country.
..........the vast majority of EU citizens have not prospered, quite the opposite, as fast as the monstrous EU debt as grown.
Buy Litecoin. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Jul 18 9.07am |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
..........the vast majority of EU citizens have not prospered, quite the opposite, as fast as the monstrous EU debt as grown. It’s great for big business. Free to take the complete p1ss with a few employment laws.
COYP |
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| silvertop Portishead 30 Jul 18 10.30am |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
They could always be brave and go to Australia, New Zealand, Canada or the USA? And the really brave ones could chance their arm in the Far East/China or dare I say even India all who have or will have a bigger GDP than the EU in a year or two when It's biggest benefactor **cough** Great Britain leaves. Hmm, so one of the "best" consequences of Brexit is a brain drain of some of our best young talent? One of the posters said that he knew there would be short term pain. he voted for the benefit of his children. Are you sure they are going to thank you?
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 2.50pm |
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Originally posted by Beanyboysmd
Im a remainer and even I know we cant call a 2nd referendum. We would vote remain and we would be a laughing stock in Europe. Our reputation on the world stage would be shot and lets face it, our reputation is the only reason we are still at any global big tables. The EU would slowly face European institutions out of Britain and into other EU nations, politically we would lose all power to influence the EU which was one of the main benifits of it in the first place... We have to leave and we genuinly will suffer for it, but the alternative will be just as bad. So we leave under the softest brexit deal we can get our hands on and hope that the BRIC nations stop looking inward over the next few years... Britain are at the G8 etc because of the size of the economy. They are also on the UN security council through the endeavour and effectiveness of the armed forces. They are also second only to the US in NATO with NATO regularly commanded by British generals. In the EU for a regular and consistent period the UK has had the fastest growing economy - except for Ireland at times (which is hardly surprising considering Ireland was pretty much a developing nation not that long ago). The EU, however, renaiged on the rebates due consistently, tried to implement a financial tax to hurt London solely, and consistently treated British wishes with contempt. I have little doubt that Merkel's ridiculous and, frankly reckless, immigration policy (if just letting anybody in who says they are a Syrian can be called a policy) was the straw that broke the camel's back. Since then the EU has been printing money whilst imposing austerity on countries such as Spain and Greece. The EU have empowered people like Le Penn with their innate greed. Find me an EU MP that doesn't have their family employed as their private secretary for an additional 200 grand and you could get close to answering some questions about why people may be willing to take a short-term hit to get rid of the EU. The final thing I will say is whatever happens politically, business will continue to do business: where one company pulls out or goes bust, another will take its place. Consumerism rules and Britain has 60 million people who like to buy crap. Leaving the EU will not change this - no matter how much scaremongering there is.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Lyons550 Shirley 30 Jul 18 4.19pm |
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I thought the UK already had a trade deal with China through Wish.com
The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World |
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 30 Jul 18 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Britain are at the G8 etc because of the size of the economy. They are also on the UN security council through the endeavour and effectiveness of the armed forces. They are also second only to the US in NATO with NATO regularly commanded by British generals. In the EU for a regular and consistent period the UK has had the fastest growing economy - except for Ireland at times (which is hardly surprising considering Ireland was pretty much a developing nation not that long ago). The EU, however, renaiged on the rebates due consistently, tried to implement a financial tax to hurt London solely, and consistently treated British wishes with contempt. I have little doubt that Merkel's ridiculous and, frankly reckless, immigration policy (if just letting anybody in who says they are a Syrian can be called a policy) was the straw that broke the camel's back. Since then the EU has been printing money whilst imposing austerity on countries such as Spain and Greece. The EU have empowered people like Le Penn with their innate greed. Find me an EU MP that doesn't have their family employed as their private secretary for an additional 200 grand and you could get close to answering some questions about why people may be willing to take a short-term hit to get rid of the EU. The final thing I will say is whatever happens politically, business will continue to do business: where one company pulls out or goes bust, another will take its place. Consumerism rules and Britain has 60 million people who like to buy crap. Leaving the EU will not change this - no matter how much scaremongering there is. I think there is obviously a lot of validity in your critiques of the EU, but I think they ignore a couple of big problems which we face at the minute. Leaving the EU was, supposedly, a chance for us to 'take back control' from an undemocratic, corrupt and overweening economic and political bloc. We were becoming sovereign again, so we were told. The issue as I see it is that the EU is merely one of many political unions which Britain finds itself in. We are, as you say, part of NATO, and as such are obliged to follow certain defence spending targets, although NATO too are an incredibly non-democratic institution. We take loans from thee IMF, and very well may be doing so again soon, and the conditions for these loans are often punitive economic restrictions. And of course we have allowed our capital city to become the playground of global finance, who hold no particular national allegiance, pay risible sums of tax and insist on certain political conditions in order to give some shine to our GDP figures. Then there are the international trade deals, private and extra-state development schemes etc., many of which are so shady that they provide no public recordings of their decisions, and all of which aim to tie the hands of our elected officials. The problem for me is that there was a legitimate argument raised with Brexit, which critiqued the international capital as being prohibitive of political autonomy. But it wasn't sophisticated enough to see the full picture, instead focusing on only one instance of this reality. It's a bit like playing Man City and deciding that De Bruyne is so dangerous, that you get your whole team to mark him out of the game. But meanwhile, Aguero and Sane are left free to do as they please. Now we're at the ironic stage whereby our lack of coherency will mean we are even more dependent on institutions like the World Bank, the IMF and global financial services to prop up our legislation and economy. All three insist on certain spending rules, certain policy decisions, without even one directly accountable body, which the EU at the very least had. All the while our goveernment seems to be so paralysed by their newfound sense of autonomy and sovereignty that they have no idea what to do, as if they'd spent the past 4 decades having decisions made for them, and now that their carer isn't here, they throw a tantrum and do nothing.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 7.05pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I think there is obviously a lot of validity in your critiques of the EU, but I think they ignore a couple of big problems which we face at the minute. Leaving the EU was, supposedly, a chance for us to 'take back control' from an undemocratic, corrupt and overweening economic and political bloc. We were becoming sovereign again, so we were told. The issue as I see it is that the EU is merely one of many political unions which Britain finds itself in. We are, as you say, part of NATO, and as such are obliged to follow certain defence spending targets, although NATO too are an incredibly non-democratic institution. We take loans from thee IMF, and very well may be doing so again soon, and the conditions for these loans are often punitive economic restrictions. And of course we have allowed our capital city to become the playground of global finance, who hold no particular national allegiance, pay risible sums of tax and insist on certain political conditions in order to give some shine to our GDP figures. Then there are the international trade deals, private and extra-state development schemes etc., many of which are so shady that they provide no public recordings of their decisions, and all of which aim to tie the hands of our elected officials. The problem for me is that there was a legitimate argument raised with Brexit, which critiqued the international capital as being prohibitive of political autonomy. But it wasn't sophisticated enough to see the full picture, instead focusing on only one instance of this reality. It's a bit like playing Man City and deciding that De Bruyne is so dangerous, that you get your whole team to mark him out of the game. But meanwhile, Aguero and Sane are left free to do as they please. Now we're at the ironic stage whereby our lack of coherency will mean we are even more dependent on institutions like the World Bank, the IMF and global financial services to prop up our legislation and economy. All three insist on certain spending rules, certain policy decisions, without even one directly accountable body, which the EU at the very least had. All the while our goveernment seems to be so paralysed by their newfound sense of autonomy and sovereignty that they have no idea what to do, as if they'd spent the past 4 decades having decisions made for them, and now that their carer isn't here, they throw a tantrum and do nothing. I would think that self-sufficiency should be the ultimate goal of any state or society. So rather than have to rely on handouts the UK should look to invest in industries they are good at. Things like defence for example - and no I don't care who they do business with in particular. As for the current state of politics I don't look at the EU as a carer - I look on it as a jailor or, at best, an old-fashioned teacher with a large cane who makes everyone do lines pointlessly. I do agree, however, that our politicians across the parties are a poor bunch at best. They are the worst I can remember since people like Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock but obviously I am forgetting all of Blair's opponents - who seemed worse than their spitting image dolls. More like cabbage patch kids. Corbyn would be a great Cabbage Patch doll when you think about it. May would probably be a decent nursery school teacher or similar - hardly a leader of one of the world's most powerful countries.
Red and Blue Army! |
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europalace  Europe 30 Jul 18 7.28pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
So rather than have to rely on handouts the UK should look to invest in industries they are good at. Things like defence for example - and no I don't care who they do business with in particular. Really? So you don't mind your money being invested in arms that will inevitably kill civilians, ordinary people with families, young children? How nice. Originally posted by ASCPFC As for the current state of politics I don't look at the EU as a carer - I look on it as a jailor or, at best, an old-fashioned teacher with a large cane who makes everyone do lines pointlessly.
The 'EU' is made up of 28 nations. All 28 have to agree on nearly everything before it's made into any kind of EU wide law. That means everyone has agreed, even your government. You might not like the decision but it's no different than a local law being made that you don't like. The EU has been made a scapegoat for so many UK centric issues by the British for years. In doing so, they've effectively been blaming the other 27 nations for their issues, it's always someone else's fault. Of course that will continue for decades to come.
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 7.59pm |
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Originally posted by europalace
The 'EU' is made up of 28 nations. All 28 have to agree on nearly everything before it's made into any kind of EU wide law. That means everyone has agreed, even your government. You might not like the decision but it's no different than a local law being made that you don't like. The EU has been made a scapegoat for so many UK centric issues by the British for years. In doing so, they've effectively been blaming the other 27 nations for their issues, it's always someone else's fault. Of course that will continue for decades to come.
I quite clearly just used defence as an example. As for killing innocent people, I should think that the Russians and Chinese have those markets wrapped up. We will have to content ourselves with countries such as Saudi Arabia or the UAE, along with some commonwealth countries. I don't envisage the UK becoming some kind of rogue nation or 'lord of war'. The UK is already a big player in the defence industry and I hope it remains that way - and carries on making cutting edge technological weaponry. I should think your average dictator is happy enough with crappy Chinese knock-offs of Soviet Era weapons. For your EU and 28 eager and willing participants - did everyone agree to Merkel's immigration policy? I believe many were against it but were still forced to deal with it. Hungary, Austria, Slovakia spring to mind. Even countries like France obviously showed major concern at immigration policy and this strengthened Le Penn. The other obvious example is fiscal and austerity. When Greece clearly voted against it, and other countries were considering similar, they were beaten into submission. German police were drafted into Greece - and I haven't even made this up! There are plenty of other areas countries have not agreed to but have been forced to go along. Most countries, and in particular, the voting public have not been given a choice about the EU. However, in many EU countries Anti-EU parties are on the rise. This perhaps suggests that Brexit may not quite be the anomaly people think that it is.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 8.07pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The EU blame game should end, it is harmful to us. Our biggest problem has nothing whatever to do with the EU, its is our productivity. We are accustomed to the comparisons that a french worker works 4 days to achieve what a british worker needs 5 days for, as an example. We are only a democratic society in a very minor way, we are and have been controlled particularly by the banks and corporations since the crash of 2008. They have no interest in raising wages, consequently workers cannot input into the economy and create demand, thus improving productivity. The economic team I have just been listening to in London say that the UK is 'petering out' and it is a shame as we will be missed. But they were very quick to hone in on the wage depression in the UK and their view of the UK as a Lprds/Serfs society. The Lords are the people you are 'returning control' to. Do Engels and Marx do podcasts?
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Stirlingsays 30 Jul 18 8.13pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The EU blame game should end, it is harmful to us. Our biggest problem has nothing whatever to do with the EU, its is our productivity. We are accustomed to the comparisons that a french worker works 4 days to achieve what a british worker needs 5 days for, as an example. We are only a democratic society in a very minor way, we are and have been controlled particularly by the banks and corporations since the crash of 2008. They have no interest in raising wages, consequently workers cannot input into the economy and create demand, thus improving productivity. The economic team I have just been listening to in London say that the UK is 'petering out' and it is a shame as we will be missed. But they were very quick to hone in on the wage depression in the UK and their view of the UK as a Lprds/Serfs society. The Lords are the people you are 'returning control' to. And to think some complain about being called remoaners.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 30 Jul 18 8.24pm |
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Originally posted by europalace
The 'EU' is made up of 28 nations. All 28 have to agree on nearly everything before it's made into any kind of EU wide law. That means everyone has agreed, even your government. You might not like the decision but it's no different than a local law being made that you don't like. The EU has been made a scapegoat for so many UK centric issues by the British for years. In doing so, they've effectively been blaming the other 27 nations for their issues, it's always someone else's fault. Of course that will continue for decades to come.
hogwash and balderdash!! to quote someone whose name escapes me!!
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| silvertop Portishead 31 Jul 18 9.58am |
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Originally posted by the silurian
hogwash and balderdash!! to quote someone whose name escapes me!! Hmm. What he says is all fact save the opinion that the anti-EU lobby blame many problems that are of our own making on the EU. He has failed to give specific examples of this. You have failed to give any examples where there is a clear line between EU act and our misfortune. Sad, as I am sure there are numerous instances of both and this pointless discussion could rumble on for a few hundred pages.
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| europalace Europe 31 Jul 18 11.27am |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Hmm. What he says is all fact save the opinion that the anti-EU lobby blame many problems that are of our own making on the EU. He has failed to give specific examples of this. You have failed to give any examples where there is a clear line between EU act and our misfortune. Sad, as I am sure there are numerous instances of both and this pointless discussion could rumble on for a few hundred pages.
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