Second half so disappointing and dispiriting.

We played as Hodgson would have - retreating to let moderate opposition look good.

Southgate reacts (sometimes) but is never pro-active. Compare with what Glasner would have done.

Basically he's gifted with some special players but hasn't much clue how to use them. He'll have Kane taking corners next.

My paper (Times) raving about Rice and Guehi - really?

Man and boy Palace since my first game in 1948 sitting on my dad's shoulders

I am a bit surprised by the negative comments about the Serbia game and England's prospects in general. Serbia were always going to present a decent test. We were the better team in the first half took the lead and although Serbia battle valiantly they in my opinion never looked really looked like scoring. With the Slovenia Denmark game ending in a draw i would be surprised if one more win and a draw will not see us through as group winners. Ideally it would be good to get the win against Denmark and we can then rotate players like Bellingham for the Slovenia game and keep them fresh for the knockout stages.
I was impressed by Rice and he protected the back four well and stood up well to Serbia's physical game. He is very consistent and is a player than can play in every game and still play well. I can see there is a case to play Ollie Watkins as he works harder off the ball than Kane and to play someone like Gordon over Foden but these are great options to have and reflect England's competition in the forward areas. I suspect though the only change will be Gallagher for TAA.
These tournaments are about peaking at the right time and improving as you go along.

Edited by viveasheagle (18 Jun 2024 3.54am)

35 appearances, 4 goals and 8 assists would suggest otherwise

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

My issue with the game, and probably perceived overaction to a 1-0 win. Is that its more than just this one game.

Its off the back of a terrible performance against Iceland, unconvincing again Bosnia, last min equaliser against Belgium, loss to Brazil, draw against Macedonia.

So we are all hoping that we manage to pull things together for the tournament, but its the same dross. And for a Palace fan, it feels very similar to the end of Roy, no cohesiveness, no apparent plan, players in wrong positions etc.

And last 10 years.... I honestly do believe that England should have done better. Southgate's tactics (as with Roys) are able to drag us through matches against poorer oppo, but struggle against the better ones.

Especially considering the Spanish, Germans and Italians have had pretty big squad overhauls.

And this Trent in midfield experiment, its as bad as Scholes playing Left mid, or Kane on corners.

Also, the friendlies are pointless. He doesn't use them to try new formations or tactics, simply putting different people into the same roles. Its why we are now entering a major tournament without knowing:
Who to play in CM
How to get the best out of Foden
What our plan B is
If Watkins, and Toney could play 'with' Kane

It's a reasonable post and I think many of your concerns are fair - again, I'm certainly not suggesting Southgate is anything like an elite-level manager nor that he doesn't have some very obviously flaws in his approach, but I have found a lot of the fall-out to Sunday night to be over the top.

I think the stuff about the last 10 years is harsh - in the last 3 tournaments we've lost a QF to France with a missed penalty, a final to Italy on penalties, and a semi-final in extra time to a very good Croatia side.

I think it's really hard to argue that losing as finalists, semi-finalists and quarter-finalists in consecutive tournaments, all in games of exceptionally fine margins, is anything close to a disaster or even an underperformance.

You mention Spain, Germany, Italy for example;

Spain lost to Russia in the last 16 in 2018, semi-final to Italy in 2020, lost to Morocco in the last 16 in 2022.

Germany failed to get out of their group in WC 18 (losing to South Korea and Mexico), lost to us in last 16 in Euro 20, and then failed to get out of the group again in WC22.

Italy didn't even qualify in 2018 or 2022, but won the Euros in 2020.

It's that sort of context I feel is missing from your analysis.

I agree with you on Trent and I don't think we'll see it again this tournament.

I don't like the framing of 'getting the best out of Foden'- there has to also be some onus on the player to step up and produce, and he never really has in an England shirt, despite a variety of roles over the years.

We absolutely have used friendlies to try new tactics and we've significantly changed our tactical approach from previous tournaments - we've phased out a number of key players from previous tournaments; Henderson, Phillips, Maguire, Rashford, Grealish, Sterling, and replaced them with players more adept at a high-pressing system like Gordon and Bowen.

Every squad in the tournament probably still has unanswered questions in terms of a couple of spots in the starting XI, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that.

We won't have to wait long to find out at least!

I think it will be Gallagher against teams who will have more of the ball (potentially Denmark included in that), so by the time we get to knock out rounds, Gallagher will be the go to.

I think Southgate thought Trent's passing range would give us something different against a low-block like Serbia, so potentially he also tries that in the Slovenia game, but I'd be very surprised if we see Trent there against bigger sides.

regarding Foden, there is no doubting that he is world class, but he doesn't appear so for his country. Plenty of players in the past have had this levelled at them.
In his case I think its because he is so used to Peps way of thinking, and his teammates - none of which are in the england squad (bar defenders, which he's not expected to interact with - that he hasn't settled into this team, and hasn't the connection with his england Teammates.

In a utopian world, and from the natioanl managers perspective, all their players will come from the same team, as the more dispersed they become the longer it'll take for the team to 'gel'.
Playing players in their own position, and in the same way for thier club helps this, but that becomes more unlikely the more dispersed the players are too.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

I just find it hard to conclude that we've underperformed for losing a penalty shootout, for example. If we win that shootout, the last 10 years is viewed as a major success and everyone is happy.

That's the nature of knockout tournament football, I know, but I think in terms of assessing the team's performance, I find it hard to call that underperformance.

Foden has certainly been shifted out of position slightly to accommodate Bellingham, but a player of his talent should still be impacting games far more than he is currently, regardless of role.

It is clearly a revamped tactical approach - Bellingham is playing right up alongside Kane, who is not dropping deep in between the lines anymore. Grealish used to hug the left flank to add width on that side, but we now have Foden drifting more centrally and Trippier keeping the width.

The new system is broadly built around Bellingham and giving him the freedom to get around the pitch and press aggressively - it's why the likes of Gordon and Bowen have been preferred to Grealish and Rashford, because they are far more adept at a high-pressing game. It's also partly why Foden is struggling to make an impact because he doesn't press particularly well at all.

I feel like I'm repeating myself a bit, but yes I do consider a team who lost a final on penalties and a semi-final in extra time in consecutive tournaments as a very good team.

I think I used this comparison previously; City were the best team in Europe for a number of years before finally winning the trophy in 22/23.

They lost a final 0-1 in 20/21 and then a semi-final in 21/22, before winning it the following year - I'm sure we'd all agree City were a very good team in 20/21 and 21/22, but knockout tournaments are decided on incredibly fine margins.

Well we'll have to agree to differ. To me GS has never put a side together that inspires confidence that we can beat the best. And he doesn't now. Let's see.

I have now sufficient funds to last me the rest of my life. Provided I don't buy anything.