Who is English?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 8.59am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It’s entirely relevant to the conversation. Bonne nuit . Only in the minds of those who want to make the links that you do. People who apparently are around 16% of us, but who seem unlikely to get more than 3 seats on July 7th. People who have more in common with Farage and his biggest supporter locally, known in our pub as “racist Dave”, than the other 84%. Farage who himself as a teenager had complaints sent to Dulwich College about his fascist attitudes. Which he denied and continues to deny, even if others can still detect them lurking behind the beer swilling, cheery faced, man of the people persona. 16% of us whose voices need to be heard. Heard, considered, argued against, and defeated by the other 84%. I favour PR, but we aren’t going to get it anytime soon. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 8.59am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It’s entirely relevant to the conversation.

Bonne nuit .

Only in the minds of those who want to make the links that you do. People who apparently are around 16% of us, but who seem unlikely to get more than 3 seats on July 7th. People who have more in common with Farage and his biggest supporter locally, known in our pub as “racist Dave”, than the other 84%. Farage who himself as a teenager had complaints sent to Dulwich College about his fascist attitudes. Which he denied and continues to deny, even if others can still detect them lurking behind the beer swilling, cheery faced, man of the people persona.

16% of us whose voices need to be heard. Heard, considered, argued against, and defeated by the other 84%. I favour PR, but we aren’t going to get it anytime soon.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

georgenorman 16 Jun 24 9.01am
Orwell's England Your England is worth a read. [Link]

georgenorman

16 Jun 24 9.01am

Orwell's England Your England is worth a read.

[Link]

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 9.07am
There are 56 ethnic groups in China! [Link] Nigeria tops even that! There are 371 ethnic groups there! [Link] Imagine the genetic mixing that must be going on! Only culture can define such groups! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 9.07am

There are 56 ethnic groups in China!

[Link]

Nigeria tops even that! There are 371 ethnic groups there!

[Link]

Imagine the genetic mixing that must be going on!

Only culture can define such groups!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Helmet46 Croydon 16 Jun 24 9.25am
I’m an 8th German by DNA. The rest is English having traced back to the 1500’s. However, I consider myself English, not only because of DNA but also because I support English values (there were once such things which mark you out straightaway) love England etc. I am also not anti-immigration and people ‘becoming’ English by their attitudes, behaviour, love of the country, willingness to fight for our values and lifestyle and represent us. To me it’s quite simple. I don’t care what colour they are, where there parents/grandparents etc were born etc - if they live our values and love our country that’s OK for me. I’d rather have some of these folk fighting side by side with me in battle for England than some of the ‘actual Englishmen’ that dress as women, cry about being offended all the time, claim there are many genders, stick ‘him’ ‘his’ etc on their signatures , insist we support their ‘gods’ and think that the world owes them a living.

Helmet46

Croydon 16 Jun 24 9.25am

I’m an 8th German by DNA. The rest is English having traced back to the 1500’s.
However, I consider myself English, not only because of DNA but also because I support English values (there were once such things which mark you out straightaway) love England etc. I am also not anti-immigration and people ‘becoming’ English by their attitudes, behaviour, love of the country, willingness to fight for our values and lifestyle and represent us. To me it’s quite simple. I don’t care what colour they are, where there parents/grandparents etc were born etc - if they live our values and love our country that’s OK for me.
I’d rather have some of these folk fighting side by side with me in battle for England than some of the ‘actual Englishmen’ that dress as women, cry about being offended all the time, claim there are many genders, stick ‘him’ ‘his’ etc on their signatures , insist we support their ‘gods’ and think that the world owes them a living.

Badger11 Beckenham 16 Jun 24 9.30am
Originally posted by Helmet46 I’m an 8th German by DNA. The rest is English having traced back to the 1500’s. However, I consider myself English, not only because of DNA but also because I support English values (there were once such things which mark you out straightaway) love England etc. I am also not anti-immigration and people ‘becoming’ English by their attitudes, behaviour, love of the country, willingness to fight for our values and lifestyle and represent us. To me it’s quite simple. I don’t care what colour they are, where there parents/grandparents etc were born etc - if they live our values and love our country that’s OK for me. I’d rather have some of these folk fighting side by side with me in battle for England than some of the ‘actual Englishmen’ that dress as women, cry about being offended all the time, claim there are many genders, stick ‘him’ ‘his’ etc on their signatures , insist we support their ‘gods’ and think that the world owes them a living. Well said.. The most "English" person I know is actually my mate who is Nigerian. However he is the personification of a patriotic English gentleman. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 16 Jun 24 9.30am

Originally posted by Helmet46

Well said.. The most "English" person I know is actually my mate who is Nigerian. However he is the personification of a patriotic English gentleman.

One more point

Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jun 24 9.31am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Only in the minds of those who want to make the links that you do. People who apparently are around 16% of us, but who seem unlikely to get more than 3 seats on July 7th. People who have more in common with Farage and his biggest supporter locally, known in our pub as “racist Dave”, than the other 84%. Farage who himself as a teenager had complaints sent to Dulwich College about his fascist attitudes. Which he denied and continues to deny, even if others can still detect them lurking behind the beer swilling, cheery faced, man of the people persona. 16% of us whose voices need to be heard. Heard, considered, argued against, and defeated by the other 84%. I favour PR, but we aren’t going to get it anytime soon. More leftist waffle. Not worth a response.

Hrolf The Ganger

16 Jun 24 9.31am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

16% of us whose voices need to be heard. Heard, considered, argued against, and defeated by the other 84%. I favour PR, but we aren’t going to get it anytime soon.

More leftist waffle. Not worth a response.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 9.31am
Originally posted by Helmet46 I’m an 8th German by DNA. The rest is English having traced back to the 1500’s. However, I consider myself English, not only because of DNA but also because I support English values (there were once such things which mark you out straightaway) love England etc. I am also not anti-immigration and people ‘becoming’ English by their attitudes, behaviour, love of the country, willingness to fight for our values and lifestyle and represent us. To me it’s quite simple. I don’t care what colour they are, where there parents/grandparents etc were born etc - if they live our values and love our country that’s OK for me. I’d rather have some of these folk fighting side by side with me in battle for England than some of the ‘actual Englishmen’ that dress as women, cry about being offended all the time, claim there are many genders, stick ‘him’ ‘his’ etc on their signatures , insist we support their ‘gods’ and think that the world owes them a living. QED! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 9.31am

Originally posted by Helmet46

QED!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 9.34am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger More leftist waffle. Not worth a response. It got one though! That wasn’t worth it! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 9.34am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

More leftist waffle. Not worth a response.

It got one though! That wasn’t worth it!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jun 24 9.40am
Originally posted by Badger11 Well said.. The most "English" person I know is actually my mate who is Nigerian. However he is the personification of a patriotic English gentleman. This is the thing. Englishness can be defined in terms of genetics but, if someone exudes everything that is considered 'English' he can happily fit in and be viewed as 'English' by those around him. That doesn't alter any facts about genetic heritage, but it does make them far more likely to be welcome in this country. Of course, foreign culture is not always unwelcome, but there are clearly groups in this country whose 'culture' is antisocial, anti British, anti gay, anti women, anti White, anti law, to name a few, and should not be here in the first place.

Hrolf The Ganger

16 Jun 24 9.40am

Originally posted by Badger11

Well said.. The most "English" person I know is actually my mate who is Nigerian. However he is the personification of a patriotic English gentleman.

This is the thing.

Englishness can be defined in terms of genetics but, if someone exudes everything that is considered 'English' he can happily fit in and be viewed as 'English' by those around him.
That doesn't alter any facts about genetic heritage, but it does make them far more likely to be welcome in this country.

Of course, foreign culture is not always unwelcome, but there are clearly groups in this country whose 'culture' is antisocial, anti British, anti gay, anti women, anti White, anti law, to name a few, and should not be here in the first place.

Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jun 24 9.42am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It got one though! That wasn’t worth it! Bonjour Wisbech. How are your onions this morning? Oh, you must still be eating them. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Jun 2024 9.58am)

Hrolf The Ganger

16 Jun 24 9.42am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It got one though! That wasn’t worth it!

Bonjour Wisbech.

How are your onions this morning?

Oh, you must still be eating them.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (16 Jun 2024 9.58am)

Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jun 24 9.57am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Thanks for confirming. Again! Thanks for confirming that, like all the Leftie politicians and useful idiots on TV right now, you splurge out nonsense about fascists, Nazis and racists when discussing Nigel Farage and Reform. It is moronic gutter politics used by people who are afraid that someone might just do something about mass migration and globalist greed.

Hrolf The Ganger

16 Jun 24 9.57am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Thanks for confirming. Again!

Thanks for confirming that, like all the Leftie politicians and useful idiots on TV right now, you splurge out nonsense about fascists, Nazis and racists when discussing Nigel Farage and Reform.

It is moronic gutter politics used by people who are afraid that someone might just do something about mass migration and globalist greed.

Helmet46 Croydon 16 Jun 24 10.14am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger This is the thing. Englishness can be defined in terms of genetics but, if someone exudes everything that is considered 'English' he can happily fit in and be viewed as 'English' by those around him. That doesn't alter any facts about genetic heritage, but it does make them far more likely to be welcome in this country. Of course, foreign culture is not always unwelcome, but there are clearly groups in this country whose 'culture' is antisocial, anti British, anti gay, anti women, anti White, anti law, to name a few, and should not be here in the first place. Indeed. It’s about living the values and living the place you’re making home. If you want to bring your Gods, attitudes and culture and try to reverse them into the English one, established over many centuries, then stay where you are as you can do it there. I’d love to move to Greece, I would not move there and insist they change their culture to suit me nor would I expect them to be happy if I tried - because if I wanted that I’d probably stay here. Being English is very much love of the country, its values, its attitudes and being prepared to fight for that. People with heritage generally do that but increasingly we have many weak ‘heritage’ English people who would rather virtue signal and stand up for people that don’t share our values and who wouldnt stand shoulder to shoulder with them in battle than support our culture and way of life. Sadly this only has a bad ending for me.

Helmet46

Croydon 16 Jun 24 10.14am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This is the thing.

Indeed. It’s about living the values and living the place you’re making home. If you want to bring your Gods, attitudes and culture and try to reverse them into the English one, established over many centuries, then stay where you are as you can do it there.

I’d love to move to Greece, I would not move there and insist they change their culture to suit me nor would I expect them to be happy if I tried - because if I wanted that I’d probably stay here.

Being English is very much love of the country, its values, its attitudes and being prepared to fight for that. People with heritage generally do that but increasingly we have many weak ‘heritage’ English people who would rather virtue signal and stand up for people that don’t share our values and who wouldnt stand shoulder to shoulder with them in battle than support our culture and way of life. Sadly this only has a bad ending for me.

Stirlingsays 16 Jun 24 10.15am
Originally posted by Badger11 Well said.. The most "English" person I know is actually my mate who is Nigerian. However he is the personification of a patriotic English gentleman. Good people can come from anywhere. However, If someone has no genetic connection to these isles then they can be the greatest person on earth....they can be a anglophile and culturally English. But they can't be English. The English people have a genetic recognised history from this island. Values are universal, your genes aren't. I could love Japanese culture and values but I can't be Japanese. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jun 2024 10.17am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

16 Jun 24 10.15am

Originally posted by Badger11

Well said.. The most "English" person I know is actually my mate who is Nigerian. However he is the personification of a patriotic English gentleman.

Good people can come from anywhere.

However, If someone has no genetic connection to these isles then they can be the greatest person on earth....they can be a anglophile and culturally English.

But they can't be English.

The English people have a genetic recognised history from this island.

Values are universal, your genes aren't.

I could love Japanese culture and values but I can't be Japanese.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jun 2024 10.17am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hrolf The Ganger 16 Jun 24 10.55am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Good people can come from anywhere. However, If someone has no genetic connection to these isles then they can be the greatest person on earth....they can be a anglophile and culturally English. But they can't be English. The English people have a genetic recognised history from this island. Values are universal, your genes aren't. I could love Japanese culture and values but I can't be Japanese. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jun 2024 10.17am) It isn't too hard to understand really, unless your name is Monsieur Wisbech.

Hrolf The Ganger

16 Jun 24 10.55am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Good people can come from anywhere.

However, If someone has no genetic connection to these isles then they can be the greatest person on earth....they can be a anglophile and culturally English.

But they can't be English.

The English people have a genetic recognised history from this island.

Values are universal, your genes aren't.

I could love Japanese culture and values but I can't be Japanese.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jun 2024 10.17am)

It isn't too hard to understand really, unless your name is Monsieur Wisbech.

Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 16 Jun 24 11.11am
I would rather not have to align myself to some geo-political country. For Bureaucratic reasons, I have to. Driving Licence, passport, etc. Fortunately, the behaviour of England players and fans over the past 2 decades has enabled me to break any lingering allegiance I might have with considering myself English. I disengage, I turn the page.

Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 16 Jun 24 11.11am

I would rather not have to align myself to some geo-political country. For Bureaucratic reasons, I have to. Driving Licence, passport, etc.
Fortunately, the behaviour of England players and fans over the past 2 decades has enabled me to break any lingering allegiance I might have with considering myself English.

I disengage, I turn the page.

PalazioVecchio south pole 16 Jun 24 12.17pm
The Romans : 400 BC to 200 AD.....tough, hardworking, cruel, clever, cunning, sneaky, sober, sexually a hetero Patriarchal society, self-sacrificing for the State, selfless, arrogant, superior, innovative, with religious certainty in their veins. The Romans : 200 AD to 472 AD.....the opposite to all of the above. ----------------------------- The English : 500 AD to 1956 The English : 1956 to today ? Same decadence, different Empire. The OP asks What is Englishness. I reply, what years are you mindful of ? The Battle of Britain or the Loss of Luton ? Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 16 Jun 24 12.17pm

The Romans : 400 BC to 200 AD.....tough, hardworking, cruel, clever, cunning, sneaky, sober, sexually a hetero Patriarchal society, self-sacrificing for the State, selfless, arrogant, superior, innovative, with religious certainty in their veins.

The Romans : 200 AD to 472 AD.....the opposite to all of the above.

-----------------------------

The English : 500 AD to 1956

The English : 1956 to today ?

Same decadence, different Empire.

The OP asks What is Englishness. I reply, what years are you mindful of ? The Battle of Britain or the Loss of Luton ?

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Stirlingsays 16 Jun 24 1.20pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio The Romans : 400 BC to 200 AD.....tough, hardworking, cruel, clever, cunning, sneaky, sober, sexually a hetero Patriarchal society, self-sacrificing for the State, selfless, arrogant, superior, innovative, with religious certainty in their veins. The Romans : 200 AD to 472 AD.....the opposite to all of the above. ----------------------------- The English : 500 AD to 1956 The English : 1956 to today ? Same decadence, different Empire. The OP asks What is Englishness. I reply, what years are you mindful of ? The Battle of Britain or the Loss of Luton ? True. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

16 Jun 24 1.20pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

The Romans : 200 AD to 472 AD.....the opposite to all of the above.

-----------------------------

The English : 500 AD to 1956

The English : 1956 to today ?

Same decadence, different Empire.

The OP asks What is Englishness. I reply, what years are you mindful of ? The Battle of Britain or the Loss of Luton ?

True.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 16 Jun 24 1.27pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly I would rather not have to align myself to some geo-political country. For Bureaucratic reasons, I have to. Driving Licence, passport, etc. Fortunately, the behaviour of England players and fans over the past 2 decades has enabled me to break any lingering allegiance I might have with considering myself English. I would argue that if you partake of the state then the social contract means that this attitude is a little lop-sided. The state thinks this too as if there were a major war and you were of conscription age (and those age rules are malleable to the state's needs as we have seen in the Ukraine-Russia war) then you would be forced to fight for the country and possibly lose your life for it. That happened in Britain in both world wars....many people who didn't agree with the war or want to fight weren't given a free choice. The social contract exists.....it's often abused by the state when it deems it convenient and it's abused by citizens/subjects as well. However, within a successful state (which we aren't )both pay that due. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jun 2024 1.32pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

16 Jun 24 1.27pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I would argue that if you partake of the state then the social contract means that this attitude is a little lop-sided.

The state thinks this too as if there were a major war and you were of conscription age (and those age rules are malleable to the state's needs as we have seen in the Ukraine-Russia war) then you would be forced to fight for the country and possibly lose your life for it. That happened in Britain in both world wars....many people who didn't agree with the war or want to fight weren't given a free choice.

The social contract exists.....it's often abused by the state when it deems it convenient and it's abused by citizens/subjects as well.

However, within a successful state (which we aren't )both pay that due.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Jun 2024 1.32pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 16 Jun 24 1.29pm
The streamlining of British/English innovative industrial engineering, and replacement with cheap production-line staff, and imported cheap goods. I disengage, I turn the page.

Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 16 Jun 24 1.29pm

The streamlining of British/English innovative industrial engineering, and replacement with cheap production-line staff, and imported cheap goods.

I disengage, I turn the page.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 2.00pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger This is the thing. Englishness can be defined in terms of genetics but, if someone exudes everything that is considered 'English' he can happily fit in and be viewed as 'English' by those around him. That doesn't alter any facts about genetic heritage, but it does make them far more likely to be welcome in this country. Of course, foreign culture is not always unwelcome, but there are clearly groups in this country whose 'culture' is antisocial, anti British, anti gay, anti women, anti White, anti law, to name a few, and should not be here in the first place. We have already determined that it cannot be, or the King isn’t English and neither are either you or me. According to your reasoning the perfect Englishman who is described cannot be English because his background is in one of the 371 ethnicities in Nigeria which another declares couldn’t possibly have any English connections. Even though the English made rather a lot of connections in Nigeria! Judging anybody solely on their genetic composition is as inaccurate as it is foolish. Only behaviour matters. There are many groups in the UK whose behaviour I regard as thoroughly anti-British. Most of them not being recent immigrants. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 16 Jun 24 2.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This is the thing.

Englishness can be defined in terms of genetics but, if someone exudes everything that is considered 'English' he can happily fit in and be viewed as 'English' by those around him.
That doesn't alter any facts about genetic heritage, but it does make them far more likely to be welcome in this country.

We have already determined that it cannot be, or the King isn’t English and neither are either you or me.

According to your reasoning the perfect Englishman who is described cannot be English because his background is in one of the 371 ethnicities in Nigeria which another declares couldn’t possibly have any English connections. Even though the English made rather a lot of connections in Nigeria!

Judging anybody solely on their genetic composition is as inaccurate as it is foolish. Only behaviour matters.

There are many groups in the UK whose behaviour I regard as thoroughly anti-British. Most of them not being recent immigrants.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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