Which is exactly why I don't bother any more - Remainiac lobotomies on here, and wider afield have now doubled down and see it as their one and only saviour, their panacea for all, their one-true-answer to the "nasty tories".

It's become a cult. If you don't believe me, go take a look at the "FBPE" nut-cases on twitter. Literally a cult.

And you can't reason with cultists.

Mmmm...on the verge of 1000 pages.

Anyone changed their minds over the course of the thread?

I don't think that people want to leave the EU anymore, or even did in 2016 it was marginal.

A vote again would be for remain in my opinion.

Look back at that vote, that campaign, and tell me that it was fair, balanced, legal and not hysterical wildly dishonest.

But the main thing is that leave objectives will not be achieved.

That bonkers red bus, would leave roll it out now? That's how discredited the whole thing is.

If a vote is called then the public can vote on the issue as it actually is, what is actually going to happen if the UK leaves the EU.

Leavers can just go out and vote leave again nobody is stopping them.

I don't think that people want to leave the EU anymore, or even did in 2016 it was marginal.

A vote again would be for remain in my opinion.

Look back at that vote, that campaign, and tell me that it was fair, balanced, legal and not hysterical wildly dishonest.

But the main thing is that leave objectives will not be achieved.

That bonkers red bus, would leave roll it out now? That's how discredited the whole thing is.

If a vote is called then the public can vote on the issue as it actually is, what is actually going to happen if the UK leaves the EU.

Leavers can just go out and vote leave again nobody is stopping them.

I don't think that people want to leave the EU anymore, or even did in 2016 it was marginal.

A vote again would be for remain in my opinion.

Look back at that vote, that campaign, and tell me that it was fair, balanced, legal and not hysterical wildly dishonest.

But the main thing is that leave objectives will not be achieved.

That bonkers red bus, would leave roll it out now? That's how discredited the whole thing is.

If a vote is called then the public can vote on the issue as it actually is, what is actually going to happen if the UK leaves the EU.

Leavers can just go out and vote leave again nobody is stopping them.

You are indeed a product of a regular media diet misinformation and agenda-driven journalism. It's sad in a way. You have been manipulated to think these things in the same way US democrats are convinced Russia "stole their election". Because it's easier being fed convenient falsehoods than facing the facts:

You lost. It didn't go the way you wanted. People have ideas that do not align with yours, and their views are equally valid. There is often no "right or wrong" answer, merely another way of doing things.

This being the 1000th page, I will have my final say on this, and then hold my tongue. A great deal of the posts here now fall into 4 categories:

1. Re-fighting the referendum campaign endlessly: futile
2. Claiming the result of the campaign was ineligible: incorrect
3. Seeking to reverse the referendum result by a "Democratic Peoples republic of Remainia Peoples Vote": better argued here [Link]
4. Conflating the (utterly botched, remain-led) implementation of Brexit with decision itself ("Hurr! Remain PM May is handing over £39bn - you said we would stop paying the EU": a total logical fallacy

So I'll take this post from a regular (if somewhat incoherent) poster on this topic, make my points, and be on my way.

I don't think that people want to leave the EU anymore
This is frequently based on dodgy polls, or the pointless "demographic argument" that old people will die, and support for Brexit will erode. A bit like no-one votes for Conservatives, because all the old people are dead, right? Oops! There is no evidence that opinion has shifted radically, nor that people are screaming for a 2nd referendum:
[Link]

or even did in 2016 it was marginal.
Sigh. The results of the 2016 referendum are uncontestable. They are not in dispute. We voted to leave. There was a clear majority, and a clear instruction from the voters. It was not marginal. To be "marginal", it must be within the margin of statistical error (in this instance, a "counting error". Based on studies, counting errors (measured via re-counts of the same election), are around 0.005%. Leave won by 3.78% - that is 756x the statistical error margin. It was not marginal.

A vote again would be for remain in my opinion.
Thanks for your opinion. I will weight it according to the quality and knowledge of the arguments and comments you make here, and disregard it entirely.

Look back at that vote, that campaign, and tell me that it was

fair
Remain had the entire political establishment, government (recall Brexit ministers were forbidden access to treasury and civil service resources), EU-funded "neutrals" like the BBC and CBI, broadcast media, foreign leaders ("back of the queue", financial backing from the wonderfully altruistic Goldmann Sachs and other assorted vampires. Sure, some backers came out for Leave, but they certainly didn't have the airtime nor impact of Airbus, the media reach of Bloomberg, the propaganda potential of the IMF.

balanced
Leave spent £13.4m on the referendum. Remain spent £19.1m on the referendum. This excludes the £9m pre-purdah propaganda leaflet.

legal
I've lost count of the number of manifestos, votes, and acts of parliament that put us on the path to offering, providing for, binding and enacting our decision to leave the EU. At least 2 manifestos (3 including the recent Labour one), 3-4 acts perhaps? And of course 1 referendum. I get that you hate actually asking the "demos" (people) to exercise their "kratos" (power), but that is sadly democracy. It is binding, because acts of Parliament have made it so. Sorry about that.

When the polling looked marginal, the (online) voter registration was extroadinarily extended by 48 hours to allow late online voter registration (but not by post, of course - that might attract an older demographic). Because the "website crashed". Utterly unprecendented. Registrations for the young voting brackets (under 25, 25-34) surged in those final days. An extra 240,000 voter registrations on the first day alone. How convenient.

Meanwhile, both sides overspent, and were taken to task for doing so. Go take a look at the amounts both sides overspent by. Now include those in the total spend figures I provide above. It amounts to sweet FA.

The Electoral Commission (stuffed full with Remain-supporters) provided advice to the Leave side that it subsequently disavowed and subsequently investigated the Leave side for transgressions resulting from that very advice.

Oh, I suppose there were Russians under each Brexit voter's bed, right? Fake Russian Twitter Bots influenceing the referendum, right? Because it's just old, stupid Brexit voters on Twitter & Facebook, right? Wrong.
[Link]
[Link]

Let's ignore the huge body of evidence that the separate Remain camps colluded, shared advertising resources and had dailly coordination meetings. After all, why would a Reamin-stuffed Electoral Commission be interested in that.

hysterical wildly dishonest (sic): Indeed, the plague has not arrived, nor the recession, nor the war, nor the crash in house prices, nor the mass unemployment, nor the projected financial ruin should we vote to leave, nor the city exodus. God, I could go on, but it's dull.

So indeed you are correct. The Leave vote was very much disadvantaged. But it won nevertheless.

But the main thing is that leave objectives will not be achieved.
Indeed. We have a PM with your mentality running both the country and the implementation of our democatric decision to leave the EU. You are guilty of conflating the decision with the implementation. Given the entire weight of the political establishment against Brexit, it's little surprise that a pro-EU idealogue would surround themselves with similar-minded acolytes, botch the entire process and then claim it is Brexit.

That bonkers red bus, would leave roll it out now? That's how discredited the whole thing is.
Leaving aside the fact that they don't need to, as it is only the bitter Remainiacs that are in campaign-mode for a referendum they lost over 2 years ago... why not? The point remains. We are handing over vast amounts of money that could be better spend elsewhere. I'd rather we spent our EU danegeld on the NHS. Many from the campaign have re-iterated this, and (were they running for government) would no doubt put this in a manifesto on which to be elected. That's the difference between a referendum and a GE you see (many Remainers have problems grasping this).

If a vote is called then the public can vote on the issue as it actually is, what is actually going to happen if the UK leaves the EU.
Sigh. This is truly, truly pathetic. The debate is now down in the gutter and scrapping around with this pitiful excuse for an argument.

I'll provide a link to this here:
[Link]

I also covered this in a recent post, here:
[Link]

Leavers can just go out and vote leave again nobody is stopping them.
They don't have to. We had a "Peoples Vote" on the 23rd June 2016. Our decision to leave defied all expectation and was against every imaginable piece of political machinery and special interest going.

One thing that has become very apparent in the intervening two years is the sheer depth of "deep state" working with an agenda that, if contrary to the electorate, carries on with utter impunity and arrogance. We see this here, we see it in the US. It is just so desperately sad that the non-stop propaganda from these people is swallowed so enthusiastically by the likes of you.

I was, and remain proud to have voted to leave the EU.

Done.

Edited by davenotamonkey (09 Oct 2018 11.44am)

What a load of guff.....

Remain currently 4% ahead in analysis of polls be that as it may.

There can be another vote anytime leave bullies know they will lose....

All you have is 1 vote, that is all.

No matter how emotional or painstaking you consider yourself.

Same for everybody.

Free to change your mind or stick.

I think remain is the only secure option here.

Look ahead, consider the consequences of a complete cock-up leaving the EU as we all know it will be.

Then it will be entirely different as the public turns on leave.

Really Mrs May or whoever needs another vote with a good margin on the actual leave deal.

Then she can say this is what you voted for if she gets a result, I don't think she will.

Just thinking about another vote I see why Wilson wanted to obtain the whole-hearted consent of the people in 1975.

Very astute man won 5 elections?

In the event there was a considerable margin and we continued with Europe.

52/48 would not have been enough, not by a long chalk.