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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Oct 18 10.33am

Originally posted by steeleye20

SP's problem is how to get transfer fees down to an acceptable level so Palace can compete.

But brexit, he is p****g in the wind.

If you were not subject to the FA and FIFA it would look great but it is the real world and everybody else is.

The answer is to produce the future Wilfrid Zaha's and Wan-Bissaka's from the clubs academy system, with occasional expensive players coming in.

Where does SP think Willan, Richarlison, Sanchez Bernard and other PL imports actually come from? South America not Europe.

If only there was some untapped reserve of talent somewhere desperate to join Palace, I am afraid the net is so intense all the other clubs are there in a flash.

If there is a plus somewhere in brexit for SP good and well, but it is an intangible risk.

Still that is where his business acumen comes in, that flair for opportunism?

Pluses and minuses we know not what they will be.


Post Brexit I hope the government tightens the rules on foreign players. We need to increase the number of home grown players. I have no problem with Messi or Neymar coming to the PL but average foreign players are stopping the progression of our youth.

Initially domestic transfers will cost more for average players but hopefully this will force the clubs to develop their academies or in the case of Chelsea actually play the talent they find rather then sending it out on loan as a form of business.

 


One more point

dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 10.59am

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

But No, it's those Polish plumbers and a few Spaniards working in Pret that are real villians !

You are so so so wrong. European workers are not the problem it's the politicians for allowing mass immigration to affect our way of life.

It happened to fast to quick and benefited large corperations wanting cheap labour to boost profits.

Us the public however have rising house prices ,less police. (Yes, less police with a rising population, go figure)
NHS is skint
Our council's are skint

So what was the bloody point.

So no I'm pretty pissed of with how the usless governments have treated us.

 

Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 11.26am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

You are so so so wrong. European workers are not the problem it's the politicians for allowing mass immigration to affect our way of life.

It happened to fast to quick and benefited large corperations wanting cheap labour to boost profits.

Us the public however have rising house prices ,less police. (Yes, less police with a rising population, go figure)
NHS is skint
Our council's are skint

So what was the bloody point.

So no I'm pretty pissed of with how the usless governments have treated us.

So if all the foreign people left, house prices would go down, there'd be more police, NHS would be fantastic, council services would be amazing ?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

Stirlingsays Flag 16 Oct 18 11.37am

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

No that is the very definition of racism. That you judge people based on their background / ethnicity irrespective of any other merits

Again, I'll state a fact. In group preference is perfectly natural and is displayed by the the vast majority of people around the world.

The words 'racism' and 'racist' have now become insult terms used by the brainwashed to tar people as unreasonable for simply displaying natural human nature.

People need to be judged upon the fairness of their actions and not about their personal preferences.....that's a loony Orwellian dystopia.

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

My main annoyance though is the general belief that immigration is the biggest issue we face, rather than the economy, austerity, cost of living, infrastructure etc. or the notion that sections of society should be blamed like foreigners, refugees, benefit claimants.


You seem to not understand that if you import the third world you also import its problems. The EU has opened its doors to the third world so we must close ours. The reality is that unfiltered immigration leads to the worst moving to the best welfare systems.

We have seen levels of crime increase in high immigration areas like London and other cities. This isn't a shock, this is simply a reality of crime levels that exist elsewhere in the world.

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

What would actually make a fairer society is getting corporates and big companies to pay the right level of tax and close tax loopholes. But No, it's those Polish plumbers and a few Spaniards working in Pret that are real villians !

Immigration is a massive problem but don't say that we don't understand the significance of other problems.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Oct 2018 11.40am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays Flag 16 Oct 18 11.45am

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

So if all the foreign people left, house prices would go down, there'd be more police, NHS would be fantastic, council services would be amazing ?

Well actually obviously house prices would go down because there would be more supply and hence less demand.

Foreigners make up none of the Police so obviously and the children of immigrants make up only a small minority....So obviously the ratio of Police to public would improve automatically.

Foreign staff is at one in ten in the NHS so that would have an impact but we don't want to get rid of some skilled immigration anyway.....We just want to start the serious process of actually training our own now.....Not brain draining other countries.

The Councils shouldn't be employing non British unless they have to either.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 11.46am

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

So if all the foreign people left, house prices would go down, there'd be more police, NHS would be fantastic, council services would be amazing ?

What bit of too fast too quick do people not understand. No one even people from the right are saying stop immigration totally. That's just what the left do to close debate.

Moderation dear boy, ever heard of it.


 

lefty27 Flag ipswich 16 Oct 18 12.01pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

What bit of too fast too quick do people not understand. No one even people from the right are saying stop immigration totally. That's just what the left do to close debate.

Moderation dear boy, ever heard of it.


But now instead of the majority of immigrants coming from Europe you have opened up the world. Europeans will no longer have preference and many don’t want to come here because of brexit.
That means more immigrants from country’s and continents with different cultures. Great for some of us but I wouldn’t have thought you’d be keen on further diluting the Northern European gene pool or the English gene?

 

dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 12.11pm

Originally posted by lefty27

But now instead of the majority of immigrants coming from Europe you have opened up the world. Europeans will no longer have preference and many don’t want to come here because of brexit.
That means more immigrants from country’s and continents with different cultures. Great for some of us but I wouldn’t have thought you’d be keen on further diluting the Northern European gene pool or the English gene?

Do we have open boarders to the rest of the world. YES OR NO?

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 12.18pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Do we have open boarders to the rest of the world. YES OR NO?

Hopefully not, as that is simply inviting unskilled people who could not replace our EU workers many who do a vital job.

 

Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 12.23pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well actually obviously house prices would go down because there would be more supply and hence less demand.

Foreigners make up none of the Police so obviously and the children of immigrants make up only a small minority....So obviously the ratio of Police to public would improve automatically.

Foreign staff is at one in ten in the NHS so that would have an impact but we don't want to get rid of some skilled immigration anyway.....We just want to start the serious process of actually training our own now.....Not brain draining other countries.

The Councils shouldn't be employing non British unless they have to either.

OK I get it, the rise in house prices has nothing to do with the lack of housebuilding, legislation, ease of borrowing / low interest rates. It's all the immigrants fault. The NHS struggling has nothing to do with people living longer, the obesity crisis, cuts or mismanagement. It's all the immigrants fault. Less Police has nothing to with 20,000 less police due to cuts. It's all the immigrants fault

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 12.39pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

OK I get it, the rise in house prices has nothing to do with the lack of housebuilding, legislation, ease of borrowing / low interest rates. It's all the immigrants fault. The NHS struggling has nothing to do with people living longer, the obesity crisis, cuts or mismanagement. It's all the immigrants fault. Less Police has nothing to with 20,000 less police due to cuts. It's all the immigrants fault

Have you got selective hearing (reading)

It's not the immigrants fault it the policies of the politicians.

Why invite minions when we arnt building enough houses

Why isnt the NHS training our own nurses!!

20000 less police, I agree it's wrong with a rising population.

Our government has taken the cheap lazy option to import cheap labour to get growth.

I repeat not the immigrants fault.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Oct 18 12.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well actually obviously house prices would go down because there would be more supply and hence less demand.

Foreigners make up none of the Police so obviously and the children of immigrants make up only a small minority....So obviously the ratio of Police to public would improve automatically.

Foreign staff is at one in ten in the NHS so that would have an impact but we don't want to get rid of some skilled immigration anyway.....We just want to start the serious process of actually training our own now.....Not brain draining other countries.

The Councils shouldn't be employing non British unless they have to either.

I often wondered why politicians say that low paid foreign workers actually benefit the country so recently I used a benefits calculator to get an idea of cost. Of course these are assumptions and you can argue whether my assumptions are correct but I still think you will arrive at a similar conclusion that it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

I used a benefits calculator from Citizens Advice these were my assumptions:

I am a young married man with a wife who doesn't work because she looks after our 2 children 1 of which is under 5.

I earn the minimum wage and work a 35 hour week so my salary is 14-15k.

I privately rent a 3 bedroom house in London which costs me £500 per week.

After my personal tax allowance I pay £300 pa income tax plus a few hundred for National Insurance

I pay £1500 pa council tax bottom line I contribute £2-3k pa to the Treasury.

According to the calculator I am entitled to Universal Credit benefits of:

£20k pa

In other words I cost the taxpayer net 18k pa and that doesn't include the 4k I maybe entitled to for child care although she is currently looking after them.

The cost does not include education, healthcare and other public services which presumably I and my family would use.

Now you may argue the salary is too low or the rent too high, feel free to do your own calculations, but I think it is clear it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

Now if it is for a care worker in the NHS that may well be worth it but if Starbucks wants staff ?

 


One more point

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 1.11pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I often wondered why politicians say that low paid foreign workers actually benefit the country so recently I used a benefits calculator to get an idea of cost. Of course these are assumptions and you can argue whether my assumptions are correct but I still think you will arrive at a similar conclusion that it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

I used a benefits calculator from Citizens Advice these were my assumptions:

I am a young married man with a wife who doesn't work because she looks after our 2 children 1 of which is under 5.

I earn the minimum wage and work a 35 hour week so my salary is 14-15k.

I privately rent a 3 bedroom house in London which costs me £500 per week.

After my personal tax allowance I pay £300 pa income tax plus a few hundred for National Insurance

I pay £1500 pa council tax bottom line I contribute £2-3k pa to the Treasury.

According to the calculator I am entitled to Universal Credit benefits of:

£20k pa

In other words I cost the taxpayer net 18k pa and that doesn't include the 4k I maybe entitled to for child care although she is currently looking after them.

The cost does not include education, healthcare and other public services which presumably I and my family would use.

Now you may argue the salary is too low or the rent too high, feel free to do your own calculations, but I think it is clear it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

Now if it is for a care worker in the NHS that may well be worth it but if Starbucks wants staff ?

Who is this person and what is actually your point, you are obviously from the Matt Hancock school of not having any connection as a tory of what these people do.

They do not claim benefits.

They work hard mostly doing jobs no Uk person would even consider, as it is beneath them.

I have been in this building 5 years and have never seen one British worker, not one.

Universal Credit?

Benefits calculator?

What is the Romanian for WTF ?


 

dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 1.22pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Who is this person and what is actually your point, you are obviously from the Matt Hancock school of not having any connection as a tory of what these people do.

They do not claim benefits.

They work hard mostly doing jobs no Uk person would even consider, as it is beneath them.

I have been in this building 5 years and have never seen one British worker, not one.

Universal Credit?

Benefits calculator?

What is the Romanian for WTF ?


Everyone is voicing their point and you just reject everything.
Are you completely satisfied with how our country is? Do you think the government has handled our country responsibly?

 

Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 1.26pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I often wondered why politicians say that low paid foreign workers actually benefit the country so recently I used a benefits calculator to get an idea of cost. Of course these are assumptions and you can argue whether my assumptions are correct but I still think you will arrive at a similar conclusion that it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

I used a benefits calculator from Citizens Advice these were my assumptions:

I am a young married man with a wife who doesn't work because she looks after our 2 children 1 of which is under 5.

I earn the minimum wage and work a 35 hour week so my salary is 14-15k.

I privately rent a 3 bedroom house in London which costs me £500 per week.

After my personal tax allowance I pay £300 pa income tax plus a few hundred for National Insurance

I pay £1500 pa council tax bottom line I contribute £2-3k pa to the Treasury.

According to the calculator I am entitled to Universal Credit benefits of:

£20k pa

In other words I cost the taxpayer net 18k pa and that doesn't include the 4k I maybe entitled to for child care although she is currently looking after them.

The cost does not include education, healthcare and other public services which presumably I and my family would use.

Now you may argue the salary is too low or the rent too high, feel free to do your own calculations, but I think it is clear it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

Now if it is for a care worker in the NHS that may well be worth it but if Starbucks wants staff ?

How does replacing the foreign worker with a British worker resolve that problem?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 1.33pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Everyone is voicing their point and you just reject everything.
Are you completely satisfied with how our country is? Do you think the government has handled our country responsibly?

'Do you think the government has handled our country responsibly?'

D the tories ? Responsible?

In fairness D I have been thinking, based on the litany of failed projects which are just normal now, that no government is capable of delivering any project on time and in budget.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Oct 18 1.36pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

How does replacing the foreign worker with a British worker resolve that problem?

The British worker is already here and we have a responsibility to them first.

We should be pushing companies to pay workers better salaries and so decrease the burden on the taxpayer. One way of doing that is to reduce the influx of cheap foreign labour thereby forcing employers to raise wages. Now if companies really cannot find British workers then fine import the labour but the companies should pay them a decent wage and not rely on the taxpayer.

As for vital public service roles rather than pay low wages and subside them with benefits how about we just pay better wages.

 


One more point

dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 1.40pm

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

How does replacing the foreign worker with a British worker resolve that problem?

If you times it by 2 million foreign workers and don't increase infrastructure or services you have a problem.

It's not the one worker which you simpistically describe. It's scale of economy.

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 1.51pm

Originally posted by Badger11

The British worker is already here and we have a responsibility to them first.

We should be pushing companies to pay workers better salaries and so decrease the burden on the taxpayer. One way of doing that is to reduce the influx of cheap foreign labour thereby forcing employers to raise wages. Now if companies really cannot find British workers then fine import the labour but the companies should pay them a decent wage and not rely on the taxpayer.

As for vital public service roles rather than pay low wages and subside them with benefits how about we just pay better wages.

Indeed we simply must pay people a proper living wage, at least.

 

Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 2.01pm

Originally posted by Badger11

The British worker is already here and we have a responsibility to them first.

We should be pushing companies to pay workers better salaries and so decrease the burden on the taxpayer. One way of doing that is to reduce the influx of cheap foreign labour thereby forcing employers to raise wages. Now if companies really cannot find British workers then fine import the labour but the companies should pay them a decent wage and not rely on the taxpayer.

As for vital public service roles rather than pay low wages and subside them with benefits how about we just pay better wages.

I agree on most of that because in effect the debate is, as it should be, moving away from immigration.

Really if it's becoming an economic debate we should look at purely those that contribute to the economy and those that don't whoever ever they may be.

I'd hazard a guess that if you separated those that are net contributors and net takers, in the latter category how many are non UK, if that number was not even 5% or at the most 10%, how much strong is the immigration argument then?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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