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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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JohnyBoy Flag 29 May 16 5.36pm

Originally posted by snytaxx

I'm not here to defend, UKIP, I don't care what happens to them or any other MEP, my issue is that you seem intent to just keep blaming the electorate for why the system isn't working. This is the whole issue with the EU and why it loses / refuses to address its really sketchy democratic record. If anyone takes issue with its structure, they just turn around and say, "oh no, its not our fault our system of government doesn't fit your local populace, its their fault they don't fit into our imposed system of doing things". Literally shocking behaviour.

When China and Australia signed their FTA last year, the Chinese didn't say "oh no Australia, we here in China are bigger than everyone else meaning you can only trade with us".

China and Australia now have a fully functioning FTA which allows 95% tariff free trade, millions of dollars of mutual trade and thousands of working holiday visa's for ordinary Chinese citizens with the skills Australia needs. Can we have that? I'm still waiting for your link...

Nope your solution is to rely on big man brussels, the head of a trade bloc that hasn't grown economically in 10 years to just bully our way in trade negotiation while still thinking we run the world.

With respect, it does sound like you at
are defending UKIP policy as the core/leadership position of every other major political party except DUP and respect is to remain...unless you are one of those rebel torys who, as John Major put it, is in danger of morphing into ukip.
And it has been a wake up call for us all to pay more attention to european elections, not my 'solution' but i would like to see more centrist and leftist representation, or maybe just representative that would vote in the interests of the uk, or is that me just being idealistic...but whatever happens, to suggest that in the event of brexit we will somehow magic a slew of new business and negotiate quick tarrif free deals with the rest of the world is equally idealistic

 

snytaxx Flag London 29 May 16 5.56pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

With respect, it does sound like you at
are defending UKIP policy as the core/leadership position of every other major political party except DUP and respect is to remain...unless you are one of those rebel torys who, as John Major put it, is in danger of morphing into ukip.
And it has been a wake up call for us all to pay more attention to european elections, not my 'solution' but i would like to see more centrist and leftist representation, or maybe just representative that would vote in the interests of the uk, or is that me just being idealistic...but whatever happens, to suggest that in the event of brexit we will somehow magic a slew of new business and negotiate quick tarrif free deals with the rest of the world is equally idealistic

It's a fundamental mistake to assume that those who will vote for Brexit are solely from right of centre parties. As can be seen from my sparring with Gusset, the EU is alot more vulnerable from attacks from the left of the political spectrum than it is from the right.

Again, I won't berate your political ideology, if a central left approach is what you want, then go and vote for it, no criticism here, but the notion this can only be found at European level is not true.

As for trade deal scenario, its key that both sides own up to their risks. As a Brexiteer, I will be the first to admit leaving has risks, but so does staying and its very important the remain camp are clear about these risks.

The beauty of our country is it has special relationships and soft power levels which some other countries in Europe can only dream about. I can't talk for all other countries here, but being an international student in China, i've quickly realised just how much the Chinese love 'us - the British' and how badly they want to buy into all things British. The potential for post Brexit UK to tap into two of the worlds largest economies of which we are held in high regard is almost limitless, why should we give other countries a veto on that relationship?

FYI, my last post for the night. Thanks for playing.

 

JohnyBoy Flag 29 May 16 6.36pm

Originally posted by snytaxx

It's a fundamental mistake to assume that those who will vote for Brexit are solely from right of centre parties. As can be seen from my sparring with Gusset, the EU is alot more vulnerable from attacks from the left of the political spectrum than it is from the right.

Again, I won't berate your political ideology, if a central left approach is what you want, then go and vote for it, no criticism here, but the notion this can only be found at European level is not true.

As for trade deal scenario, its key that both sides own up to their risks. As a Brexiteer, I will be the first to admit leaving has risks, but so does staying and its very important the remain camp are clear about these risks.

The beauty of our country is it has special relationships and soft power levels which some other countries in Europe can only dream about. I can't talk for all other countries here, but being an international student in China, i've quickly realised just how much the Chinese love 'us - the British' and how badly they want to buy into all things British. The potential for post Brexit UK to tap into two of the worlds largest economies of which we are held in high regard is almost limitless, why should we give other countries a veto on that relationship?

FYI, my last post for the night. Thanks for playing.

Yep good debate syntaxx.....btw centre/left is not necessarily my political ideology and i take your point re China but i think we are trading just fine as it is, Germany now exports 10% of its trade to china, brexit would not make it better necessarily for either.
Most on here will breathe a sigh of relief cos i am signing off for a whole week, going on hols tomorrow, so intend to not even look at a newspaper during that time, let alone the HOL.

 

elgrande Flag bedford 29 May 16 6.38pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Has it really come to this?

3543.jpg Attachment: 3543.jpg (74.01Kb)

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande Flag bedford 29 May 16 6.41pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Has it really come to this....outright racism on the remain side

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 29 May 16 9.23pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Has it really come to this....outright racism on the remain side

You're right. A disgraceful poster and further proof of the desperation of the Remain camp.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 29 May 16 9.33pm

Originally posted by elgrande

The days of the white skinhead, racially abusing an Indian lady haven't been seen for donkeys years. That image was typical in the 70's to 90's.

Thankfully you rarely even hear racist words being thrown around now. Don't know who that ad campaign is supposed to target as it certainly doesn't connect with anything I've seen or heard for at least 20 years.

 


VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 May 16 9.36pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

You're right. A disgraceful poster and further proof of the desperation of the Remain camp.

As bad as the Brexit ze Germans billboard.

Is there a way that both sides can lose?

 

leifandersonshair Flag Newport 29 May 16 9.48pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

As bad as the Brexit ze Germans billboard.

Is there a way that both sides can lose?

Spot on. Both sides getting increasingly desperate and nasty, to try and capture the minority who haven't made up their minds yet.

Expect more of the same in the next 4 weeks- the press reporting on the financial apocalyptic meltdown that Brexit will bring, or the hordes of criminals waiting to flood over the borders if we remain, depending on the stance of the various news organisations.

 

Holmesdale62 Flag Hayes Bromley 29 May 16 9.51pm

I'm in based on ease of moving across boarders in Europe, no European VAT (we are exempt) and the financial damage it would do to British businesses. All the world's financial institutions can't be wrong and if they are Brexit want to wing it?

Oh and for good measure the 'The European Convention of Human Rights' were penned by Winston Churchill's government post WWll to provide a voice for all EU nations to prevent the rise of fascism. To hear this compared to Hitler in anyway was the end of Brexit for me. Closing boarders, blaming others for financial ruin and ignoring the rise of capitalists was the beginning of Hitlers power.

And lets not forget Nigel Farage is married to a German (which I have no problem with) European immigrant whom he employs as his EU secretary - just this fact makes me squirm. What a hypocrite.

In.


Edited by Holmesdale62 (29 May 2016 9.52pm)

Edited by Holmesdale62 (29 May 2016 9.55pm)

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 May 16 9.52pm

Seen a lot today about Cameron being on his way out regardless of the result.
Snap election by the end of the year?

 

Holmesdale62 Flag Hayes Bromley 29 May 16 10.02pm

I think this campaign has shown the Tories in their true light. Blame others. My way is best. Keep the majority of the voters ignorant of the real issues. Say were representing you and coming from an elite that we can never be a part of. Stabbing each other in public and then say 'Haw, Haw, Haw just banter and politics'.

Niche club of corrupt buggers I'm afraid.

Can you imagine a world with Trump and Boris in charge? What sad times we live in.

 

chris123 Flag hove actually 29 May 16 10.13pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Seen a lot today about Cameron being on his way out regardless of the result.
Snap election by the end of the year?

No more snap elections - they're every 5 years now.

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 May 16 10.18pm

Originally posted by chris123

No more snap elections - they're every 5 years now.

The newspapers must be wrong and you must be right then.

 

chris123 Flag hove actually 29 May 16 10.39pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

The newspapers must be wrong and you must be right then.

Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011.

 

npn Flag Crowborough 29 May 16 10.40pm

Finally I'm off the fence - I'm OUT, though there is no guarantee that I won't jump to the other side of the fece should the Remain camp stop patronising the sh1t out of me, andd come up with some real reasons (without made up or massaged figures) that convince me otherwise

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 29 May 16 11.02pm

Originally posted by chris123

Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011.

[Link]

are only two circumstances in which a general election can take place earlier than the scheduled five years after the previous one.

First, the House of Commons can vote for one – but the number of votes for must be equal to or greater than two thirds of the number of seats in the House (including vacant seats).

In other words, even if a Prime Minister has a single-party majority, he cannot simply summon up an early general election. Only a Prime Minister in possession of a massive landslide or cross-party agreement could vote one through under this provision.

(This means that during both the 2010 and 2015 Parliaments, a ‘snap general election’ could not simply be called by the Prime Minister, despite some pundit who should know better liking speculating that he should or was about to.)

The second route is if the House of Commons passes a vote of no confidence in the government (by a simple majority) and then fails within fourteen days to pass a motion of confidence in a new government.

In other words, if a Prime Minister were to demand an early election, call a vote of no confidence in themselves and even get his own party to vote for the motion – there is no general election. Instead, the leader of the opposition would get the chance to form a government first. It is only if they – and everyone else – fails that there is then an early general election

 

Holmesdale62 Flag Hayes Bromley 29 May 16 11.04pm

But the 1922 committee could accept an anonymous list from Tory MPs asking for a vote of no confidence. Then Cameron would have to wait the outcome of an in house election for him to continue as Tory leader and bye bye if the vote goes against him.

I don't know who would be running the country if this happens though (anyone know?) but of course front runner would be Boris.

So we could get a minority vote government with a leader we didn't elect and the Brexit campaign is based on the British people having control of their laws.

Are you rich? No I mean very, very rich? Then don't vote Conservative.

 

Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 29 May 16 11.31pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

As bad as the Brexit ze Germans billboard.

Is there a way that both sides can lose?

One of the issues is the fact that the EU is worryingly German-dominated. The concept of 'ze Germans' is firmly entrenched in British popular culture. The Remain poster, on the other hand, is nothing but a crude stereotype which suggests that young white males habitually go arounnd intimidating those of formerly-colonial ancestry.

So no, it's actually far worse and more objectionable than the Brexit poster.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

corkery Flag Cork City 30 May 16 12.19am

Originally posted by nickgusset

The newspapers must be wrong and you must be right then.

This sums up politics.

 


We'll never die

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