Heheh - much more effective than those after-school detentions they dish out these days!

I'll add that it would likely be with a new government, as Cameron is toast after the referendum: win or lose. And deservedly so.

Who is eligible to vote? My Portuguese neighbour moved to Selhurst from Beja three years ago, lovely family. Said this evening both he and his wife were sent polling cards this week. I'm certain they are not dual nationality so trying to figure out how they are able to vote. Anyone know?

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

About 100,000 Irish citizens plus thousand more who've moved to Northern Ireland. It's odd because UK nationals can't vote in Irish referendums.

We'll never die

We have an "opt-out". Like we had an opt-out from bailing out the Eurozone (we paid). Like we have opt-outs on the EU charter that the ECJ can overrule (77% UK failure rate against the ECJ). Like we lost the opt-out to prevent the Eurozone from corralling and pushing through legislation the favours them and not the UK (as will happen increasingly) - that was in the "negotiation" Dave came back with in his ham-fisted hand.

Here's the reality: to the 5 EU presidents (can you name them? Do you know what they do?) the single market IS the eurozone. It is inevitable that they will integrate further in ALL respects - the "5 presidents report" genuinely lays out how, and on what timescale. Here is the report:

[Link]

This isn't a crackpot study or speculative wishful thinking from nutjob federalist MEP groups (the Spinelli group spring to mind here). No. This report is authored by Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, Mario Draghi and Martin Schulz. The five presidents (no, you didn't vote for them).

Oh yeah, yeah - it's just a report, idiot!! Well. No. These reports are the blueprints and roadmaps for the next EU treaties, just as the previous iterations were. You read it in this, it will be in the next treaty.

"Deepening by doing" (as per the above report) can only mean one of three things for the UK, were it to remain in the EU:

1. We become an awkward observer from the periphery as the Eurozone/singlemarket integrates into the superstate called for by these men. We pay in, and get out-flanked and outvoted more and more as our trajectories diverge. The only difference is how easily we are outvoted once the extra 5 states join and our MEP count, council and commission strength drops. But we keep paying in to the club. A protectionist club inside an outmoded protectionist customs union. Superb.

2. We do the above, but (as will no doubt be the case) stronger clamours to fully join this superstate gain traction. Worms like Ken Clarke get their way and "the Westminister Parliament is just a council chamber in Europe" (his words, not mine). We essentially cease to exist as a sovereign nation as we cede more and more powers as laid out in the above report.

3. The EU/Eurozone implodes while we are in it. We will be more exposed in than out (caveat: Brexit most certainly does not insulate us from this), and no "opt-outs" are going to save us from the huge bill at the end to clean up the mess. While that mess is being cleaned out, expect a biblical exodus out of eurozone countries into... well. Where in the EU doesn't have the Euro? We already see this right now, and it isn't surprising when the EU success story includes 50% youth unemployment in Spain and Greece.

No doubt the EU fanboys on here will pooh-pooh point 2 above, but respected economists beg to differ: "After 2020, all EU members will have to adopt the euro"

[Link]

I can see the outcome of this referendum bring contested in court should the Remain camp win.

By no means certainties.

At the end of the day a vote to 'Remain' is a vote to maintain permanently the EU Treaty principle of "Free movement of people" and a vote to ensure that we have to admit economic migrants from the EU whether they have an offer of a job or not.

Furthermore a vote to "Remain" is to leave the "European Court Of Justice" to strike down decisions of the UK about asylum and immigration policy.

And a vote to "Remain" is a vote to continue membership of the EU whose ultimate goal is to have a "United States of Europe".

Finally we are a major nation.Europe needs us.We need to govern our own country and NOT be dictated to by the dastardly EU.

Edited by Willo (01 Jun 2016 12.03am)

My response was tame compared to what I was thinking... I'm 62 by the way.

Age is not a barrier to exploiting schoolboy error gifted opportunities like you presented... bringing your mum into the debate... LOL

Voting to leave the EU isn't going to necessarily change that either, but I agree it gives the possibility to change that. There are also a considerable number of UK citizens working around Europe that would also be affected if we did exit the EU Freedom of movement. Leaving the EU doesn't mean an end to free movement. It only gives a potential capacity to do so. Countries like Norway, who aren't part of the EU have signed up to the 'Freedom of Movement'.

Well no, it doesn't, because that's not how the ECHR functions, in the slightest. The UK would still require a highest court of appeal, and this has been the European court since the 1950s. UK asylum and immigration policy must still remain within UK Law, and the ECHR only becomes involved where conflicts exist within two or more different legal status in law.

The Human Rights act would need to be revoked from British Law, as it was introduced by the UK Government, through all legal and due process, in 1998. This is where most of the conflict occurs, typically when the UK Government tries to do something that is actually against its own laws.

Hyperbole, this wouldn't really ever be viable, and the EU doesn't really have the capacity or authority to implement this. More sinister, is that the EU represents more of a Corporate State of Europe, than a United states of Europe.

God save the queen, for king and country, Lloyd George and all that bollocks - We don't govern our own country, we have an elite that does that and damn it, we have our own rich elite w*ankers who dictate our lives etc. But its all hyperbole.

I'm all for leaving the EU, but in no way is it dictatorial or dastardly. Its simply necessary to redefine the nature of the EU and shared European identity, in a manner that represents the people of each nation, not commercial powers (which is the real power behind the EU).

I suspect that the UK breaking with the EU, will likely inspire further breaks from the EU, resulting ultimately in a different kind of Union further down the line.

Problem is, the illusion that the referendum will actually change anything. Even if its an exit, we will still be a nation ruled by corporate interests and their representatives.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Probably because Ireland is a separate country from the UK, but plenty of Irish citizens wanted to retain a British Identity etc.

Bloke I worked with in my previous role, spent 20 years in the British Army, and was Irish. We only found out when he failed Security Clearance (not a UK National) that he wasn't British, he was sure he was.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]