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General Election 2017


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 May 17 12.01pm

Originally posted by robdave2k

She has well and truly shot her bolt this morning.

Ok so figures - I hate this Government for what they are doing for those who are genuinely self-employed. They are not a Conservative Government in that respect.

However let's take Labour's plans.

If you reverse the Corporation Tax reduction you will increase the burden on small businesses disproportionately. In the last year they have seen their taxes go up by at least 10% in most cases - no if's, no buts. Likewise with Capital Gains.

On the radio the other day there was a woman complaining the self employed can offset expenses - yes they can but as the name suggests they are expenses so money you have to pay out to run a business. You are generally spending £1 to save £5. I earned more in a job than I do running a business.

This Government has introduced some of the most draconian legislation in respect of dealing with tax avoidance with the APN regime and the pay up front. But it has also ended a lot of marketed tax avoidance. What should happen is an investment into HMRC administration, rather than assuming that all self employed people are on the take.

No politician on any side understands small businesses. They can make all the claims in the world but if they kill the engine room of this country then there will be no recovery. Unfortunately simple mathematics though like Diane Abbot this morning show why Labour has an issue of credibility on the economy.

I work with hundreds of self employed people. To a man none of them will vote labour and I am in a very split area. You have the main towns as working class, and the surrounding villages are more right leaning. I would dearly love Mr Corbyn to be electable, but he isn't. No one genuine believes they can finance what they are promising and if Mr Corbyn couldn't see that coming this morning then he isn't fit to lead. It doesn't matter how you slice it, that was a car crash.

British politics is far to partizan and accusatory. There is a middle ground between the "everyone deserves everything" and the "cut it all right back". But with the greatest of respect Nick you are not an economist and you don't deal with small businesses on their finances every day of the week. They are not being turned by the press, or not reading between the lines. They know that if you keep spending money that you don't have then you will go bust.

That isn't a media spin on it, that is history combined with car crashes like this morning. If you are going to put a divisive, racist individual out as a front person and put her on the radio, then for Christ's sake at least make sure she is competent and prepared. I don't particularly agree with Maggie's politics, but that would not have happened under her watch.

What is sadly depressing is that for those of us in the centre there really is no choice of who to vote for. Parliamentary candidates are now no different to Apprentice candidates. It used to be you entered public service at the end of your life, whereas now it's a career - no candidate in my constituency inspires me and those who are genuine free thinkers would need the party machine behind them to get elected.

So all we can do is make the best choice and trust me if you are self employed - it ain't Labour. But then again the choice is which end of the s***-stick would you like.

This. We have an electoral system that leaves large percentages of the population under represented, because of their geographical location. You have political parties who's methodology of being elected is increasingly about why their better or how bad x would be, rather than on policies and manifestos and a rising fad of popularist politics that's just plain depressing.

This government doesn't want small businesses and the self employed, as that is a section of the market that has increasingly been consumed by large scale corporations that have achieved large scale market control.

HMRC's goal is to push everyone they can back into PAYE, irrespective of the consequences, an issue they've had for 16 years of being inable to effectively raise revenue because of antiquated and outdated taxation systems. A result of which is they have turned IR35 from a means of obtaining fair taxation, to a means of persecuting people for being self employed.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 02 May 17 12.03pm

Originally posted by robdave2k

No politician on any side understands small businesses. They can make all the claims in the world but if they kill the engine room of this country then there will be no recovery. Unfortunately simple mathematics though like Diane Abbot this morning show why Labour has an issue of credibility on the economy.

I work with hundreds of self employed people. To a man none of them will vote labour and I am in a very split area. You have the main towns as working class, and the surrounding villages are more right leaning. I would dearly love Mr Corbyn to be electable, but he isn't. No one genuine believes they can finance what they are promising and if Mr Corbyn couldn't see that coming this morning then he isn't fit to lead. It doesn't matter how you slice it, that was a car crash.

Well I work with hundreds as well and the picture I see is much more nuanced.

I don't know whether the Tories have felt empowered by the paucity of the opposition but they have been one of the most anti-small business governments in history.

But the interview was a car crash. She could maybe have got away with it but just kept on digging a deeper hole. And suddenly it has gone from a mistake to the top story on the BBC News.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 02 May 17 12.05pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Hard to disagree with that, certainly feels like it's a case of Hobson's choice though neither will get my vote

Yep I'm feeling that neither deserve my vote. As it happens mine isn't worth turning up for anyway. Surrey East is 57% Tory and then about 17% UKIP.

 


COYP

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 02 May 17 12.08pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Valid point, except Ms Abbott is Shadow Home Secretary, this is her brief.

Having a brain fart is excusable, she just kept digging and digging.

She turns me off in all ways so much I wasn't aware of her role. (I probably did and then forgot due to her sanctimonious bilge)

I haven't listened to the link but LBC have the start of it on their highlights during breaks.

 


COYP

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards robdave2k Flag 02 May 17 12.13pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

Well I work with hundreds as well and the picture I see is much more nuanced.

I don't know whether the Tories have felt empowered by the paucity of the opposition but they have been one of the most anti-small business governments in history.

But the interview was a car crash. She could maybe have got away with it but just kept on digging a deeper hole. And suddenly it has gone from a mistake to the top story on the BBC News.


Exactly this

But this is where representation comes in - you are in Cockfosters which is commuter belt. North Northamptonshire (or North Londonshire if you listen to that bollocks) is more industrial.

I've a choice of Tory boy who grew up in the villages and went to private school or the labour candidate who believes you should strike over everything.

Neither of whom has any real life experience or experience of running a genuine small business. Then there is the Lib Dems whose sole claim seems to be they are neither of the above (as in they don't know what they are)

All candidates seem to think they know better than the public. The clue is the public can generally for the most part smell bulls***!

I know things will be crap under the Tories, but at least they are telling us this. But in Abbot's case - if the one area where you have a real credibility gap (irrespective of whether you think you do or not) you make damn sure you are prepared before you appear in the media.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 May 17 12.18pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

As opposed to a Tory party who've managed to end up with a complete outsider as their leader thanks to a brutal round of political backstabbing.

Neither party really to me seems up to the job. Its like having to pick the best candidate for the job based on which one looks the smartest.


It would be fair to say that we are voting for the least worst option, but one option is far worse than the other.

Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott in Government? Spare me please.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 May 17 12.19pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Talk about the figures man.

Figures never tell the whole story what ever they suggest.

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 02 May 17 12.23pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Figures never tell the whole story what ever they suggest.

According to the figures, do labour have a better record of reducing debt when in government. Yes or no?

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 May 17 12.25pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

According to the figures, do labour have a better record of reducing debt when in government. Yes or no?

No

 

Kermit8 Flag Hevon 02 May 17 12.34pm

You can't prove anything with facts to some people.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


matt_himself Flag Matataland 02 May 17 12.54pm

Jezza is not embarrassed by Abbott:

[Link]

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 May 17 1.13pm

Abbot is probably a better reason to not vote Labour than Corbyn - Who I dislike, but kind of identify with some of his policy aims.

The competition between the can't fund / won't funds will again result in the UK getting the government that the corporations want.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 02 May 17 1.16pm

So we will have 10,000 more police at an estimated cost of £300 million paid for by not going ahead with planned cuts in capital gains tax.

We will be getting a hammering after the election whoever is in power so the above is good value for money in my view.

 

jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 May 17 1.21pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

So we will have 10,000 more police at an estimated cost of £300 million paid for by not going ahead with planned cuts in capital gains tax.

We will be getting a hammering after the election whoever is in power so the above is good value for money in my view.

Well if the Conservatives spend more on Policing, then they've reversed their austerity measures and cuts in policing (a services they have royally f**ked over) - whilst Labour are seeming to be keen to employ police officers on some kind of 'apprenticeship scheme' wages....

Who to trust... Oh wait, you don't actually have to vote for the Conservatives or for Labour. Despite what they claim, its only a two horse race of lame nags if you let it be.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Stirlingsays Flag 02 May 17 1.28pm

Funny really....Thatcher upped the pay of the Police probably to motive them for the coming battles against the miners and unions and various bits of social unrest....Brixton riots.

The Tories are less ideological now, unless it's about the EU....Which I suppose I don't mind.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 02 May 17 3.47pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Well if the Conservatives spend more on Policing, then they've reversed their austerity measures and cuts in policing (a services they have royally f**ked over) - whilst Labour are seeming to be keen to employ police officers on some kind of 'apprenticeship scheme' wages....

Who to trust... Oh wait, you don't actually have to vote for the Conservatives or for Labour. Despite what they claim, its only a two horse race of lame nags if you let it be.


The problem with Capital Gains Tax being pencilled in for multiple policies is that the receipts are pretty variable

[Link]

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

Brentmiester_General Flag Front line in the battle against t... 03 May 17 8.08am

[Link]

 


"We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...

Brentmiester_General Flag Front line in the battle against t... 03 May 17 8.32am

A comment from someone in the US. Nearing in mind the Tories want to.abolish the NHS

I Urge you all to read, copy and paste this letter from America.
"I wish one thing for the British people in this upcoming election, I don't care whether you consider yourself conservative, labour, yellow, blue, rich, poor, young, old, for or against the variety of political slogans thrown around. I wish every person eligible to vote, to vote for the NHS. Whatever that takes, whatever other policies you have to grey line on or even disagree with. Vote for the NHS. I tell you from experience that the negotiations that have already happened with United Health and other private bodies are against your best interests. Once the middle men of a fractured health, insurance driven system get in, you will never get them out. Few people are aware in England of how much it hurts to hear your child in pain and instead of whipping them up in your arms and taking them to the nearest hospital, you are on the phone asking a stranger if your policy will cover it. Being admitted to hospital and an over night stay with a single scan costing just over $4,000... and the quote for the treatment you need being 16,000 - that's not including anesthesiologist fees or any complications arising. Who do you know right now has an extra $400 per person a month for insurance fees (that's low, many pay much more) who then dictate what you can and can't treat and the treatment for it. Who benefit if you die rather than fight, who call new treatments, for cancer especially, 'experimental' and refuse to pay. I have a friend who would not be here right now if it wasn't for a go fund me page, because his insurance didn't deem him fit for the heart surgery he needed, despite the surgeon saying he was. Please , everyone, fight for your NHS, because once it's gone, no one will be fighting for you and you will no longer have a voice. Vote for the NHS, whatever it takes, fight for it."

SAVE OUR NHS

 


"We love you Palace, we f@cking hate Man U, We love you Palace, we hate the brighton too, We love you Palace we play in red 'n' blue, so f@ck you, and you ...

Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 03 May 17 8.36am

Originally posted by Brentmiester_General

A comment from someone in the US. Nearing in mind the Tories want to.abolish the NHS

I Urge you all to read, copy and paste this letter from America.
"I wish one thing for the British people in this upcoming election, I don't care whether you consider yourself conservative, labour, yellow, blue, rich, poor, young, old, for or against the variety of political slogans thrown around. I wish every person eligible to vote, to vote for the NHS. Whatever that takes, whatever other policies you have to grey line on or even disagree with. Vote for the NHS. I tell you from experience that the negotiations that have already happened with United Health and other private bodies are against your best interests. Once the middle men of a fractured health, insurance driven system get in, you will never get them out. Few people are aware in England of how much it hurts to hear your child in pain and instead of whipping them up in your arms and taking them to the nearest hospital, you are on the phone asking a stranger if your policy will cover it. Being admitted to hospital and an over night stay with a single scan costing just over ,000... and the quote for the treatment you need being 16,000 - that's not including anesthesiologist fees or any complications arising. Who do you know right now has an extra 0 per person a month for insurance fees (that's low, many pay much more) who then dictate what you can and can't treat and the treatment for it. Who benefit if you die rather than fight, who call new treatments, for cancer especially, 'experimental' and refuse to pay. I have a friend who would not be here right now if it wasn't for a go fund me page, because his insurance didn't deem him fit for the heart surgery he needed, despite the surgeon saying he was. Please , everyone, fight for your NHS, because once it's gone, no one will be fighting for you and you will no longer have a voice. Vote for the NHS, whatever it takes, fight for it."

SAVE OUR NHS

Total and utter hogwash.
Labour have been going on about this since time immorial yet the NHS is still with us - for instance, I recall Blair and his "24 hrs to save the NHS" and all that baloney.


Edited by Willo (03 May 2017 8.39am)

 

legaleagle Flag 03 May 17 8.52am

I fear it was not the Brentmiester who was spouting the proverbial hogwash but our own "national treasure ", Mr Willo.

From that left wing rag The Telegraph,February 2017:

"Breaking point is becoming “the norm” for the NHS, with 15,000 beds cut from hospitals in the space of six years.

The fall amounts to one in ten beds being lost, and has prompted warnings about patient safety amid rising pressure on the health service.

The British Medical Association yesterday said that the decrease in beds was directly contributing to long waits in crowded A&E departments.

...The BMA report also pointed to a steep rise in the rate of emergency re-admissions, which the organisation said indicated that patients are being discharged from hospital before too quickly.

“The UK already has the second lowest number of hospital beds per head in Europe per head and these figures paint an even bleaker picture of an NHS that is at breaking point,” said BMA council chair Dr Mark Porter.

"Failures within the social care system are also having a considerable knock-on effect on an already stretched and underfunded NHS.

“When social care isn’t available, patients experience delays in moving from hospital to appropriate social care settings which damages patient care and places a significant strain on the NHS.”

And that's the score after only 7 years of our delightful "friends" in power and before before our post-Brexit US trade deal allows US medical vultures to start putting the knife into the NHS.. in pursuit of the mighty dollar.

 

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